Model S/X Owners Have Priority Model 3 Orders Over Non-Owners

[McHoffa]

If your tax burden is less than $7,500, why do you need a $7,500 tax credit?

Most of us have completed this year's income tax returns, what was your tax burden? Figure out which group you fit in:
>$7,500
<$7,500, but >$3,750
<$3,750, but >$1,875
<$1,875

>$7500, but not by much. I'd be much better off (and probably would have gotten a 70D) if I wasn't paying $1300/month in health insurance for my family

 

[PeterK]

Something to keep in mind if you're in MA:

You may still get some, or all, of the Federal EV Credit, but if you check enough boxes on your Model 3, and your sticker price is over $60,000 (which we aren't even certain will be possible with a Model 3 yet), you'll only get $1,000 state rebate, not $2,500.

Eligible Vehicles List | MOR-EV

The $60,000 cutoff is for base MSRP - $35,000 in this case:

PLEASE NOTE: Effective February 29, 2016, eligible battery electric vehicles, fuel cell electric vehicles, and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles with a base MSRP greater than or equal to $60,000 will be eligible for a rebate of $1,000 per vehicle. These vehicles will no longer be eligible for the previous rebate amounts of $1,500 or $2,500. All qualified rebate applications submitted on or after February 29, 2016 will be affected.​

 

[brianman]

Deliveries will probably be prioritized in this order:
1. Region/geography
...

This this this. It makes the more sense and allows Tesla to get model 3's on the roads asap for the lowest cost.
...

Says someone, predictably, from California.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

The $60,000 cutoff is for base MSRP - $35,000 in this case:

PLEASE NOTE: Effective February 29, 2016, eligible battery electric vehicles, fuel cell electric vehicles, and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles with a base MSRP greater than or equal to $60,000 will be eligible for a rebate of $1,000 per vehicle. These vehicles will no longer be eligible for the previous rebate amounts of $1,500 or $2,500. All qualified rebate applications submitted on or after February 29, 2016 will be affected.​

Let's see if they change their wording. When it comes time to tax you for sales tax, they don't use base MSRP, they use what you paid. And remember, the MSRP of $35,000 is for the 2WD, small battery.....

will be interesting when they start adding AWD and bigger battery packs.

 

[brianman]

(1)If Tesla does Signature Model 3s (which all indications are, that they won't), then it would be the same, wouldn't it? Those who pony up more cash go to the front of the line. (2) There really wasn't any complaining about it during the S and X rollout -- which makes this argument even more about class warfare IMO.

(1) Elon's officially stated no Sigs for Model 3.
(2) Yes, there was complaining. And it was similar. Just smaller volume of posters / forum members.

 

[PeterK]

Let's see if they change their wording. When it comes time to tax you for sales tax, they don't use base MSRP, they use what you paid. And remember, the MSRP of $35,000 is for the 2WD, small battery.....

will be interesting when they start adding AWD and bigger battery packs.

Sales tax is different, it is the tax on a sale so by definition applies to the sale price. This is defined by base MSRP. Remember, other than Tesla it's hard to have a consistent price other than base MSRP - pricing via dealers is "fluid". And even with AWD and a larger battery it would be hard to get a Model 3 up to $60K on any kind of "base" model, without including premium interior, premium sound, and other options.

 

[Bokonon]

Something to keep in mind if you're in MA:

You may still get some, or all, of the Federal EV Credit, but if you check enough boxes on your Model 3, and your sticker price is over $60,000 (which we aren't even certain will be possible with a Model 3 yet), you'll only get $1,000 state rebate, not $2,500.

Eligible Vehicles List | MOR-EV

The key statement in this policy is:

Effective February 29, 2016, eligible battery electric vehicles, fuel cell electric vehicles, and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles with a base MSRP greater than or equal to $60,000 will be eligible for a rebate of $1,000 per vehicle

The strange part is that the MOR-EV program never really defines "base MSRP" anywhere, so it's unclear whether it's the sticker price (which would include options) or the trim-level pricing before options. The only thing I can find in my quick scan of the MOR-EV Implementation Manual (last updated in February 2016, available here) is a footnote next to "base MSRP" that reads:

Base MSRP is confirmed by Fuel Economy where applicable. If the MSRP is not reported, the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s website is utilized to confirm the base MSRP.

If you go to fueleconomy.gov, you find a footnote there that says that price information is provided by Edmunds (cue wild-goose-chase music). That said, it seems that Tesla is one of the OEMs whose MSRPs are "not reported" -- if you pull up the Tesla Model S, they break it down into the different trims (70D, 90D, P90D, etc.) but there is no MSRP information. So, that means they'll be going to teslamotors.com for their MSRPs (cue wild-goose-chase refrain).

However, if you pull up a 2016 Chevy Volt, it shows you an MSRP range of $33,170 - $37,520, i.e., the base MSRP for the LT and Premier trim levels. Given that a fully-loaded Volt has a sticker price around 45K, it makes me think that MOR-EV's restrictions do not include include the price of any options that you add onto the car. (If they did, I would assume their wording would simply be "MSRP" rather than "base MSRP"... but again, our lawmakers aren't always as clear as they need to be...) Under this reasoning, the "base MSRPs" for the Model 3 would be 35K (base battery), ~40K (base battery + D), ~48K (max battery + D), and (hopefully, for the sake of your fully-loaded aspirations!) ~58K for the P(max)D.

Curiously, there are no "entry-tier" EVs (even at the upper end) on the MOR-EV list that exceed $60K fully loaded. (The i3, B-Class, and A3 e-Tron all max out around 53K.) In other words, there is currently no "unit test" that we can apply to this question... but I imagine the Model 3 PxxD might change that.

 

[Trips]

335,000+ individuals will get the full $7,500 rebate in my prediction.

Even if every current owner buys a M3 there should be plenty of tax credits left over. Why not stop sales for a few months once they get to 199,000 sold? If they are producing 50,000 vehicles per quarter and hit 199,000 sales on February 1st they then start stockpiling. You then stockpile 35k vehicles and sell them April 1st. You then have 6 months (100k+) more vehicles for a total of 334,000 sales at the full $7,500 tax credit.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

The key statement in this policy is:



The strange part is that the MOR-EV program never really defines "base MSRP" anywhere, so it's unclear whether it's the sticker price (which would include options) or the trim-level pricing before options. The only thing I can find in my quick scan of the MOR-EV Implementation Manual (last updated in February 2016, available here) is a footnote next to "base MSRP" that reads:



If you go to fueleconomy.gov, you find a footnote there that says that price information is provided by Edmunds (cue wild-goose-chase music). That said, it seems that Tesla is one of the OEMs whose MSRPs are "not reported" -- if you pull up the Tesla Model S, they break it down into the different trims (70D, 90D, P90D, etc.) but there is no MSRP information. So, that means they'll be going to teslamotors.com for their MSRPs (cue wild-goose-chase refrain).

However, if you pull up a 2016 Chevy Volt, it shows you an MSRP range of $33,170 - $37,520, i.e., the base MSRP for the LT and Premier trim levels. Given that a fully-loaded Volt has a sticker price around 45K, it makes me think that MOR-EV's restrictions do not include include the price of any options that you add onto the car. (If they did, I would assume their wording would simply be "MSRP" rather than "base MSRP"... but again, our lawmakers aren't always as clear as they need to be...) Under this reasoning, the "base MSRPs" for the Model 3 would be 35K (base battery), ~40K (base battery + D), ~48K (max battery + D), and (hopefully, for the sake of your fully-loaded aspirations!) ~58K for the P(max)D.

Curiously, there are no "entry-tier" EVs (even at the upper end) on the MOR-EV list that exceed $60K fully loaded. (The i3, B-Class, and A3 e-Tron all max out around 53K.) In other words, there is currently no "unit test" that we can apply to this question... but I imagine the Model 3 PxxD might change that.

this was my point about BASE MSRP, it seems they break the different drivetrains and battery packs into submodels, and use the price for that as the BASE MSRP.

I highly doubt a PXXD Model 3 would start at more than $60K, but something to keep in mind if they do.

 

[neptune2000]

The sequence is:
1) You make a refundable deposit.
2) You'll get an e-mail with "RN" prefix which is like an account number that you include for any further payments from then on.
3) You won't hear anything for a long time. You can check your "My Tesla" web page for any change.
4) People will report that they've gotten an e-mail to configure.
And you will too!
5) You then can click on the link in the e-mail to configure. You can also go to "My Tesla" page to do that too.
6) Once you click to configure, you can click on how many options you want depending on how much you want to pay.

I think you can practice to do that with Model S without logging in your "My Tesla" page to see all the options and pricing.

You cannot do that (that means configuring without logging in) for Model X or Model ≡ currently, because you need an e-mail that unlock your "My Tesla" page.

7) After you are happy with your configuration, you can now "finalize" it and your deposit would be then converted to "non-refundable." That means you've entered a buying contract at that point.

8) Most people won't hear anything for a long time. But if you check your My Tesla page, you'll get a VIN posted there in a few weeks.

9) Then after a few weeks, Tesla would call you to set up a delivery schedule.

And so on...

So let's get back to your question:

a) at what point we are asked if we want a fully optioned car?

No one will ask you.

When you see an e-mail telling you that you can configure now, that's when you can choose barebone, maxed out, or anything in between options yourself.

b) if we will be able to see the effect in change of delivery date when we make that call:

I don't think so. It's been done by faith and been confirmed with past historical reporting. You pay for more options, you'll get it faster than others with less options after factoring in other factors.

c) I might be willing to take a few more options if it gets me a car 1-2 years sooner.

Historically, it is very difficult to predict a delivery date at the start of production because it might be very slow or even stalled for sometimes to iron out some wrinkles.

Once the production is fully ramped up, how many Model ≡ per week, then your Delivery Specialist can give you an educated guess of when you will get yours.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

This is very good. Bottom line this is all that will happen on March 31:

1. Stay in line at 10AM at your local Tesla Store, or wait until 7PM and go online at www.tesla.com

2. Create a MYTESLA account and make a refundable $1,000 deposit with your credit card.

3. Leave

 

[palmer_md]

Is it possible that the only owners who will get a jump to the front of the line are the lucky few who won the "lottery" to attend the live event?

The way the letter read it is a possible interpretation. I don't think this was the way it was intended to read but it might be a way out for tesla to say that that is what they meant.

 

[brianman]

Why not stop sales for a few months once they get to 199,000 sold?

By my count, this proposal has been raised at least 4 times on TMC. To mixed reviews.

 

[Tam]

...everyone with a RN gets the email to configure at the same time correct?

No.

It stands for reservation number which confuses people. RN is an account number that has NOTHING to do with reservation/order/delivery sequence at all. You want to refer that number so your check would not be mistakenly credited to your friend's account.

Thus, as soon as you make a deposit, Tesla will send you an e-mail receipt quickly such as next day with an assigned RN#.

In the past, Tesla would send you both RN# and Sequence number. Sequence number was how you know how far ahead or behind in line. It also allowed the public to track the process easily such as on a Wiki spreadsheet.

As people start to compare to each other: If my sequence number is 100, and yours is 400, how come you got your delivery and I don't? Most likely because the sequence number 400 ordered more options and I ordered less.

Sequence number was discontinued with Model X. You now only get RN and a date of deposit, not a sequence number so you have no idea where you are in line except for the date.

When it is time to configure, Tesla would send a batch of invitations according to an established priority.

For example,

1) employees
2) owners
3) non-owners

We don't know how big each batch of e-mails are. It could be a hundred, a thousand or more.

Everyone in a batch would get an invitation pretty much the same time.

It is true that a highly optioned order takes priority but if they don't quickly configure and finalize it, they will lose their place in line.

For example, when it is time to send invitations to a last batch to owners and some owners just take their time and do not finalize their orders (convert a refundable deposit to a non-refundable one.)

Then, comes a first batch of invitations for non-owners and they would quickly finalized their orders. Then after that, their orders would go to the factory and would be in production.

At that time, those owner procrastinators would then finalize their orders. They will never be able to jump ahead for those non-owners in this case.

So in this scenario, owners can jump ahead of non-owners if they finalize their orders quickly.

If not, good luck to procrastinating owners.

 

[ohmman]

A twist from an alternate universe:

Instead of Model S/X owners getting first vehicles, the general public is prioritized for early vehicles and must deal with tweaks, Service Center visits, and depreciating cars as the improvements are pushed to the assembly line. Model S and X owners, getting their cars afterwards, have the better vehicle with longer range and better features. Owners cry foul and that Tesla played guinea pig with them in order to favor their higher paying customers.

Not taking a side on this either way (I mentioned upthread that I do want to see the maximum incentive value for the tax credit) but.. just something to think about.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

No.

It stands for reservation number which confuses people. RN is an account number that has NOTHING to do with reservation/order/delivery sequence at all. You want to refer that number so your check would not be mistakenly credited to your friend's account.

Thus, as soon you make deposit, Tesla will send you an e-mail receipt quickly such as next day with an assigned RN#.

In the past, Tesla would send you both RN# and Sequence number. Sequence number was how you know how far ahead or behind in line. It also allowed the public to track the process easily such as on a Wiki spreadsheet.

As people start to compare to each other: If my sequence number is 100, and yours is 400, how come you got your delivery and I don't? Most likely because the sequence number 400 ordered more options and I ordered less.

Sequence number was discontinued with Model X. You now only get RN and a date of deposit, not a sequence number so you have no idea where you are in line except for the date.

When it is time to configure, Tesla would send a batch of invitations according to an established priority.

For example,

1) employees
2) owners
3) non-owners

We don't know how big each batch of e-mails are. It could be a hundred, a thousand or more.

Everyone in a batch would get an invitation pretty much the same time.

It is true that highly options takes priority but if they don't quickly configure and finalize it, they will lose their place in line.

For example, when it is time to send invitations to a last batch to owners and some owners just take their time and do not finalize their orders (convert a refundable deposit to a non-refundable one.)

Then, comes a first batch of invitations for non-owners and they would quickly finalized their orders. Then after that, their orders would go to the factory and would be in production.

At that time, those owner procrastinators would then finalize their orders. They will never be able to jump ahead for those non-owners in this case.

So in this scenario, owners can jump ahead of non-owners if they finalize their orders quickly.

If not, good luck to procrastinating owners.

wish I could like this more than once. This is the most detailed and reasoned explanation I've heard of the process, and much more productive than some of the posturing being done by some who may or may not get a bump in the production of their Model 3.


(also, I hope EM is watching all of this and maybe taking notes.....could end up becoming a PR issue)

 

[ModelNforNerd]

A twist from an alternate universe:

Instead of Model S/X owners getting first vehicles, the general public is prioritized for early vehicles and must deal with tweaks, Service Center visits, and depreciating cars as the improvements are pushed to the assembly line. Model S and X owners, getting their cars afterwards, have the better vehicle with longer range and better features. Owners cry foul and that Tesla played guinea pig with them in order to favor their higher paying customers.

Not taking a side on this either way (I mentioned upthread that I do want to see the maximum incentive value for the tax credit) but.. just something to think about.

Except in your scenario, TSLA stock would become as worthy as Charmin if they were to "live beta" the public.

But hey, maybe they could strike a deal so that current owners could get their S and X get serviced at GM dealers after TSLA goes under. HAHAHAHAHA.

Sorry, I'm picturing someone with a Model X in the same service room lobby as someone getting the oil changed in their Cobalt......

 

[SW2Fiddler]

the only people who will end up receiving the tax credit are those who really don't need it.

Objection -
Assumes facts not in evidence. And wow, those last six words are particularly assumptive.

Look. Each buyer of a Model S or X between now and the 3's release, also steps TM towards the "200,000th U.S. sale triggering the phaseout of the credit" - Not just those who purchased before now (HOW DARE THEY!). Why the scorn for only current owners?

I guess the ideal situation would be: If 1) TM stopped selling Ss or Xs right now, then 2) way more people could get that tax credit they need on the 3, that'd be better right?
Now what is wrong with that picture...

 

[Sp4rky]

Question: Once you have a reservation number after you make your refundable deposit, can you continue to make ongoing "deposits" to your reservation number? So for example, put $1,000 down and continue to build up your down payment for the vehicle?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Objection -
Assumes facts not in evidence. And wow, those last six words are particularly assumptive.

Look. Each buyer of a Model S or X between now and the 3's release, also steps TM towards the "200,000th U.S. sale triggering the phaseout of the credit" - Not just those who purchased before now (HOW DARE THEY!). Why the scorn for only current owners?

I guess the ideal situation would be: If 1) TM stopped selling Ss or Xs right now, then 2) way more people could get that tax credit they need on the 3, that'd be better right?
Now what is wrong with that picture...

traditional loyalty bonuses offered by OEM's usually involve you trading in your vehicle to receive a discount on the new one.

Perhaps if that was the case here, the argument would be moot, because the number of people willing to give up their S or X to get a discount or bumped up on a Model 3 would be much smaller.

I guess that's the downside to dealing with a company doing new things. We're not all used to how it works. And honestly, we've yet to see if even Tesla and EM know how it will all work. This is the 1st time they've made this jump into a larger market segment.

 

[physicsfita]

Question: Once you have a reservation number after you make your refundable deposit, can you continue to make ongoing "deposits" to your reservation number? So for example, put $1,000 down and continue to build up your down payment for the vehicle?

Why not just put the money in the bank and earn a micro-speck of interest?