Model S/X Owners Have Priority Model 3 Orders Over Non-Owners

[Az_Rael]

Question: Once you have a reservation number after you make your refundable deposit, can you continue to make ongoing "deposits" to your reservation number? So for example, put $1,000 down and continue to build up your down payment for the vehicle?

Why let Tesla hold onto the money interest-free for so long? Just give them the $1000 then build up your down payment amount in an account that is at least earning some interest (as small a rate as that might be).

That way if you decide for some reason later down the line that this isn't going to work out (maybe an unexpected emergency happens), you won't have to wait to get back your $$ from Tesla.

 

[Model 3]

This is the 1st time they've made this jump into a larger market segment.

You mean except for the time they jumped from the Roadster (about 2,5k total) to Model S (now at 50K/y)?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

You mean except for the time they jumped from the Roadster (about 2,5k total) to Model S (now at 50K/y)?

the Roadster gets an asterisk, as we all know it's essentially a Lotus with the EV drivetrain. the manufacturing burden on Tesla was much, much less for the Roadster than the S.

 

[bonnie]

the Roadster gets an asterisk, as we all know it's essentially a Lotus with the EV drivetrain. the manufacturing burden on Tesla was much, much less for the Roadster than the S.

Yeah. Try saying that over in the Roadster section of this forum. You might learn something.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Yeah. Try saying that over in the Roadster section of this forum. You might learn something.

facts are facts. it was much more cost effective for Tesla to partner with Lotus for development/parts in their first foray into manufacturing. the S is the first car they designed from the ground up. not taking anything away from the Roadster, but it is what it is: a great car conceived and designed with a little assist.


but we're really off topic now for this thread. I'll be quiet now.

 

[omarsultan]

facts are facts.

#sigh
Here is some of that learning @bonnie was referring to: Mythbusters Part 2: The Tesla Roadster is not a Converted Lotus Elise

 

[bonnie]

facts are facts. it was much more cost effective for Tesla to partner with Lotus for development/parts in their first foray into manufacturing. the S is the first car they designed from the ground up. not taking anything away from the Roadster, but it is what it is: a great car conceived and designed with a little assist.


but we're really off topic now for this thread. I'll be quiet now.

First jump: Tesla has made the leap from manufacturing zero cars to producing the Roadster. (And I wish it was just an electrified Lotus. Common misconception, perpetuated by those who don't know. If it was just an electrified Lotus, then it would be a heck of a lot easier to get body panel parts.) They were smart and outsourced the body panels that they designed to a partner (Lotus) who produced the parts for them, allowing them to focus on getting the first car out there.

Second jump (into the larger market segment that you say they've never done): They then made the leap from basically hand built Roadsters to mass-produced Model S, bringing an entire factory online and a huge organization up to speed on manufacturing.

So have to disagree that the 3 will be Tesla's first jump into a larger market segment. They've been taking the steps along the way. Will it be a stretch? Yep. So was the first jump (Roadster) and second jump (Model S). But it's not their first time.

 

[AlanSqB]

The thing that irritates me most about the 200k limit on tax incentives is the fact that other mfrs get to sit back and relax while companies like Nissan and Tesla do the hard work of getting EV's into the public mind. Then, once the hard work is done, they can swoop in and undersell (with incentive) these mfrs that have worked hard to use up all their credits already.

I think that those mfrs who have used up their 200k credits should be given an allotment of credits that would have gone to another mfr, like Toyota. I know this would be terrible to manage, so how about once the first two mfrs use up their 200k credits, nobody else gets to use the program.

I don't know, somebody smarter than I am can figure out a way to make this more fair for the EV pioneers.

 

[Monkey]

I don't buy the quirks reasoning here. I think the reason to give configuration priority to existing customers is because current owners are an established base with a very high satisfaction rating. Give them a little thank-you gesture and many will return and buy more cars.

Not entirely correct. The first mention on the Gen-III car-price was "about $30k in todays dollars" (in 2013 I think?), and no mention about tax-credit or anything. But from the first time he mentioned $35k he was clear about "without any tax-breaks" and without mention "in todays dollars".

Elon stated a time or two over the past couple years that the Model 3 would be about $30K and at times did reference that price being after the federal tax credit. But since they have been pushing the $35K figure lately, they have actually made it clear that is without the credit and I think that's a good thing. OTOH, they're still pushing the tax credit marketing pretty hard with the S and the X. My spec and price sheet for my Model X has the $7500 on there as a line item total. I guess we'll see how it works out. If I could have bought the X in '14, the tax credit would have been a go. Last year, not so much. This year it's too early to tell, but I'm confident.

 

[Monkey]

I think that those mfrs who have used up their 200k credits should be given an allotment of credits that would have gone to another mfr, like Toyota. I know this would be terrible to manage, so how about once the first two mfrs use up their 200k credits, nobody else gets to use the program.

I don't know, somebody smarter than I am can figure out a way to make this more fair for the EV pioneers.

I wish they wouldn't limit it to specific quantity per manufacturer, but rather allow the credit for all EV's of any make up to a point where the market reaches a certain level of saturation. By restricting the quantity per manufacturer, it does favor those companies who wait patiently by the sidelines. Can't really say that it isn't fair as all companies are getting the same 200K allotment, but I think in the spirit of a free market and progression of this technology, we should not be putting consumers into a position where they have to say, "Oh, I really want the Tesla, but can't afford it without the tax credit now that they have sold 200,015 cars as of the other day... I guess I'll have to buy that Bolt instead." Opening it up to where the EV tax credit could work up to the point of the market reaching maybe a 7 to 10 % saturation of EV's, rather than per manufacturer, also does more to reward those manufacturers who are advancing faster and pushing more products to market sooner. Incentive to innovate and evolve.

 

[smartypnz]

Just a thought. There is no MSRP, since Tesla is not a retail item, Isn't it considered wholesale since it is purchased from the factory?

 

[Tam]

...it was much more cost effective for Tesla to partner with...

Sometimes heavily depending on outsourcing or partnership can be more trouble than it's worth.

Latest example is outsourcing Model X seats. Tesla had to bring seat production in-house in order to get the production line going.

In this case it is more cost effective because it secures the rate of production line with no fear of potential unreliable outsourcing/partnership.

 

[wdolson]

The $7500 tax credit can only be fully used by higher income people anyway. 2015 looks like the first year in my working career where I'll owe $7500 in income taxes (I haven't done my taxes yet, that's just my estimate). I would expect most Model S and X buyers make enough that they pay more than $7500 a year in income taxes, but that probably won't be true for Model 3 buyers. I suspect when the incentive gets cut in half, that will still wipe out the income taxes for many Model 3 buyers.

 

[artsci]

I live in LA and got the invite to the random draw. Did any owner receive an invite regardless of location?

I'm in Baltimore and I received one. If I'm selected I'll be there.

 

[wdolson]

First jump: Tesla has made the leap from manufacturing zero cars to producing the Roadster. (And I wish it was just an electrified Lotus. Common misconception, perpetuated by those who don't know. If it was just an electrified Lotus, then it would be a heck of a lot easier to get body panel parts.) They were smart and outsourced the body panels that they designed to a partner (Lotus) who produced the parts for them, allowing them to focus on getting the first car out there.

Second jump (into the larger market segment that you say they've never done): They then made the leap from basically hand built Roadsters to mass-produced Model S, bringing an entire factory online and a huge organization up to speed on manufacturing.

So have to disagree that the 3 will be Tesla's first jump into a larger market segment. They've been taking the steps along the way. Will it be a stretch? Yep. So was the first jump (Roadster) and second jump (Model S). But it's not their first time.

The plan all along was to make an electric car, then make a more affordable but still expensive EV, and finally produce a mass market car. The Model S/X is kind of in the middle between a limited production car and a mass produced car. It's a medium volume production car. There are no other companies I'm aware of making just medium production cars, but most of the major car companies produce some models at similar volumes to the S and X. Some are expensive high end cars, others are more modestly priced cars. The car I drive now was produced in numbers in the 20-50K a year (a Buick).

Just a thought. There is no MSRP, since Tesla is not a retail item, Isn't it considered wholesale since it is purchased from the factory?

Tesla sales are retail direct to the customer.

 

[AlanSqB]

I'll let the other tax experts in the many threads discuss this, but people in this range will probably have a significant amount of refundable credits like the child tax credit. So the $7500 will still have a pretty big impact.

I haven't gotten a CITC in several years despite having a number of them eating me out of house and home.

 

[PeterK]

The thing that irritates me most about the 200k limit on tax incentives is the fact that other mfrs get to sit back and relax while companies like Nissan and Tesla do the hard work of getting EV's into the public mind. Then, once the hard work is done, they can swoop in and undersell (with incentive) these mfrs that have worked hard to use up all their credits already.

I think that those mfrs who have used up their 200k credits should be given an allotment of credits that would have gone to another mfr, like Toyota. I know this would be terrible to manage, so how about once the first two mfrs use up their 200k credits, nobody else gets to use the program.

I don't know, somebody smarter than I am can figure out a way to make this more fair for the EV pioneers.

Once the first two hit the 200k mark, eliminate all EV credits and put in place carbon pricing across the board.

 

[Az_Rael]

I wish they wouldn't limit it to specific quantity per manufacturer, but rather allow the credit for all EV's of any make up to a point where the market reaches a certain level of saturation. By restricting the quantity per manufacturer, it does favor those companies who wait patiently by the sidelines. Can't really say that it isn't fair as all companies are getting the same 200K allotment, but I think in the spirit of a free market and progression of this technology, we should not be putting consumers into a position where they have to say, "Oh, I really want the Tesla, but can't afford it without the tax credit now that they have sold 200,015 cars as of the other day... I guess I'll have to buy that Bolt instead." Opening it up to where the EV tax credit could work up to the point of the market reaching maybe a 7 to 10 % saturation of EV's, rather than per manufacturer, also does more to reward those manufacturers who are advancing faster and pushing more products to market sooner. Incentive to innovate and evolve.

Why does everyone seem to think Tesla will be the first to the credit cap? I think GM is actually at the top right now with probably 100k cars sold in the US. And Nissan is right behind them. I would say we might be in a situation when the Model 3 is shipping in 2018 where BOTH GM and Nissan are in their credit phase out periods.

Maybe that's Teslas game plan all along. That the tax credit won't matter with the 3, and you won't be able to buy a Bolt with a full credit in 2018 either, so... You'll buy the Tesla.

 

[wdolson]

Once the first two hit the 200k mark, eliminate all EV credits and put in place carbon pricing across the board.

You can make wishes, but in the current political climate in the US, any changes like that are a long shot.

 

[djplong]

I'm a bit pissed. The idea that someone else can come in after me (I'll be in line at the Natick MA store) and get their SECOND $7500 tax break and quite possibly take it AWAY from me is what irritates me. If my car comes a little later but with the $7500 intact, I don't have much of a problem with that. It's the idea that the $7500 is the difference between a bare-bones car and one with the options I really want.

I don't even have a problem with Tesla employees getting early access. It's the idea of the double-dipper cutting in line in front of me that kinda burns me up. If he or she is standing in line in front of me in Natick, I'll exchange high-fives when we put our deposits down. But if he or she sits at home for a month, does it online and then ends up in front of me? That doesn't exactly give me warm fuzzies.