Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

[trmmcd]

Not sure about the comment they weren't sure how to put out the fire. From what I read and saw discussed by them on TV coverage, one of the issues they had with the battery was that the crash had split the car in two and the power cables were cut. They may have trained for disconnecting the 12v battery and other scenarios already but this likely was the first time they encountered this scenario and guessing from Tesla's response in general they too have never seen damage like this or so severe. I think the concern was what might still be live and keeping their guys safe. Initially I thought they weren't trained how to handle a damaged car with a battery like this but changed my mind from some more indepth comments that were made. As it was the Tesla techs were able to detemine the battery was still at 70% and that the batteries needed to be weakened before it was safe to move the car. I did hear a comment by one of the onsite personnel that it was going to stretch the resources of the fire department if the ended up having to secure the car for hours before it being moved and then having to monitor it for some period afterwards in case a fire broke out afterwards.

So an interesting side note - I read that the fire department had been trained in extinguishing a battery fire but chose not to follow the recommendation because they would have had to close an entire side of the highway by running a fire hose across the highway. Apparently part of the recommended approach is to extinguish the fire with a large volume of water - presumably more than is carried on a truck. So overall it seems that Tesla has provided quite a bit of education to fire departments but there is still a practical learning curve.

 

[jimmy_d]

It’s where the several feet of crush barrier was before it was destroyed in a previous accident a couple weeks prior and removed.

That photo includes the complete crush barrier. There used to be (years ago now) a line of those 3 foot tall 4" diameter plastic orange poles that they use for lane dividers. I think the plastic bases are still there in the concrete but the poles are long gone. There seem to be a lot of incidents at that location. Despite warning signs a lot of drivers seem to be surprised to find themselves in an exit lane and this seems to lead to a lot of risky last minute high speed maneuvering. Hence the missing poles and the missing crash barrier.

 

[SMAlset]

Now I feel better about buying my Kia. First the massive recall of over 100K cars and now this. Maybe I'll buy one in a few years when they've had time to reflect and understand how to build these cars safely.

Did you read past the headlines to learn that the reason for the voluntary recall by Tesla was because the bolts for the steering were determined to rust due to the road salt used in some northern areas and fail? The costs are being covered by Bosch which indicates to me that they sold Tesla the parts involved. From what I understand Tesla has a good record on issuing voluntary recalls and issued it for all cars that had that part installed regardless if the car was driving in other areas of the country or not. The thought being it could be sold or later have someone move to where it would become a problem. I'd rather be inconvenienced as a owner to bring my car in for a voluntary recall than not get one until enough lawsuits got filed for a forced recall to be issued.

 

[MRPLUGIN]

I did not see this news story covered nation wide. I better send this to all the news agencies and the NTSB. It was in my city and they my have missed it.

Bystanders help save man from burning car in Riverton | KSL.com

It is truly a sad situation. But the news is getting out of hand.

 

[SMAlset]

Interesting: Missing warning poles?

View attachment 290757

From way earlier in the thread this was discussed. Actually there use to be metal posts there (don't know if we knew exactly for what) but they were sawed down and filled with concrete. There were photos of this. Way too many pages to look back for for you though .

 

[Matias]

What about those high definition maps Teslas were suppose to collect? This road is travelled by Teslas all the time.

 

[Skidmark]

I drove by this site this morning twice for AP testing purposes at similar times to when the accident happened. I did observe some interesting behavior where the steering would slightly, but noticeably, turn towards the empty space before the barrier in both of my attempts. However, it did not leave the lane and I never felt the need to intervene.

Sunlight did not seem to be a factor at the times I was there (starting at around 9:15am, accounting for the fact that sunrise was approx ~10 minutes earlier than on 3/23/2018).

I was in an AP2 Model X with following distance set to 1 on both attempts.

Working on the videos...

 

[X Fan]

Those also didn't cost a 150k lol.

What about Porsche or Audi?

You’re kidding right?

Porsche and Audi are chock full of recalls; essentially all auto Companies are.

How about Ferrari: Ferrari recalls 458 Italia supercar

FWIW: My wife’s Macan has had two in 3 years and in each case in took a YEAR for Porsche to get parts to Naples for fix.

 

[Skidmark]

Here are the videos from my testing this morning:

First Attempt:

Second Attempt:

 

[MXWing]

T


You are doing exactly what you are asking me not to do, i.e. declaring a system safe to operate for people of all skill levels and backgrounds. Most of us here are in the field of technology, and we know the limitation of technologies. I agree with the fact that semi-autonomous cars are fully autonomous car will make the road safer but how do we get there? AP is safe for the people with knowledge and training on how AP operates on various road conditions, weather conditions, visual backgrounds, camera and sonar limitations. They know what they are getting into.

I feel sad for the drivers who trust the system as advertised and become paying testers of Tesla.

Yes and even though most of us work in technology we also know there are huge skill gaps between your principal and junior staff. “I work in technology” alone is not a sufficient quantifier of authority.

AP is safe when the drivers understand they are ultimately responsible for what happens to the vehicle and their persons. The weight of responsibility guides your choices.

“I feel sad for college graduates who trust the degree system as advertised and become paying students for the system.”

What guarantee can Tesla can provide? 100% accident free system no matter what?

Can a degree promise a job, a salary or anything of the sort?

For the overwhelmingly majority of responsible individuals - It’s better to have AP/college degree than without one.

Lastly, please answer my question:

Once you engage AP with your family in the car, are you going to come back and walk back your comment about “never” with family?

You are so convinced about how terrible EAP Is you should contact Tesla and strip it from your config.

Since you are never going to use it you don’t need it.

I’m betting you will keep it and engage it with family in the car before Tesla declares full L5.

I got $5000 for your favorite charity lined up. Shall we go?

 

[Driver Dave]

Here are the videos from my testing this morning:

Really informative videos.

Should the lane have a painted line between it and the barrier?

Even the car ahead of you is not really sure about the lane.

 

[robe900]

Every new car these days you encounter has it's own tech to some level and does it their own way. Any new owner of a car is responsible for reading through the owner's manual and learning how to use the car's features. I see it as though you are trying to blame Tesla here, but I'll pose the question if you just bought a new (fill in the blank...Toyota, BMW, etc) do they provide you with operation training. Everyone who buys a car to drive would be licensed to drive on the road. Properly operating what you drive on the road falls to the driver every time.

Yup, Acura guys clearly explained to me how to use the new features. On that point, how do I change the following-distance setting again? Before changing adaptive cruise speed or after? So if go from 20-30, okay change the following distance from 1-2. And so am so forth. If I forget to do that, bummer, I could die !!! Atleast mention that before selling, you’re screws if you’re in 1 and go at 80.

 

[kkboss]

Here are the videos from my testing this morning:

First Attempt:

Second Attempt:

Thanks for sharing. Did the driver trying to take 85? He worked at Apple.

 

[Skidmark]

Thanks for sharing. Did the driver trying to take 85? He worked at Apple.

It was stated (not sure how accurately) that he worked at one of the Sunnyvale offices of Apple and should have been on 101S, so that's what I tested.

 

[TEG]

It’s where the several feet of crush barrier was before it was destroyed in a previous accident a couple weeks prior and removed.

That photo includes the complete crush barrier. There used to be (years ago now) a line of those 3 foot tall 4" diameter plastic orange poles that they use for lane dividers. I think the plastic bases are still there in the concrete but the poles are long gone. There seem to be a lot of incidents at that location. Despite warning signs a lot of drivers seem to be surprised to find themselves in an exit lane and this seems to lead to a lot of risky last minute high speed maneuvering. Hence the missing poles and the missing crash barrier.

They have gone through multiple different kinds of crash barriers at that location over the years.
The marks you saw were from the circa 2011 original barrier that was a sequence of wooden posts with a guardrail. It got replaced by sand/water barrels in 2012/2013, then replaced with the "smart cushion" device we have now.

2011 version of the barrier:

You can see that people ran into that one too...

There were never any plastic poles there.

 

[SMAlset]

Here are the videos from my testing this morning:

First Attempt:

Second Attempt:

I did notice on the second run you got a "hold hands" visual warning. And on both videos the car went slightly to the left on autosteer. Both times you were driving with someone detected in front of you. On the second video the SUV in front also drove a bit closer to the left (clearly not a Tesla) and I think the normal driving tendency with fast moving traffic is to maintain your car as far as comfortable and reasonable away from neighboring traffic (which in this case would be the 101 lane to the right. I wonder how AP does with no cars detected directly in front which was the described scenario in the Tesla blog. Overall though I thought that was how I would have expected the car to perform on autosteer. Thanks.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Yup, Acura guys clearly explained to me how to use the new features. On that point, how do I change the following-distance setting again? Before changing adaptive cruise speed or after? So if go from 20-30, okay change the following distance from 1-2. And so am so forth. If I forget to do that, bummer, I could die !!! Atleast mention that before selling, you’re screws if you’re in 1 and go at 80.

Yeah, who knew that stopping distance increases with speed...this is totally new information to me.

Mind blown.

 

[MP3Mike]

Here are the videos from my testing this morning:

Thanks for sharing. Any chance you did a run in the far left lane?

 

[TEG]

Should the lane have a painted line between it and the barrier?
Even the car ahead of you is not really sure about the lane.

No. The car ahead is in the correct place in the lane. The black line you indicated as "painted line gone" was never a lane marker - it is a crack/seam between two different freeway surfaces. The freeway used to be more narrow here and they expanded it to add lanes. They left behind different textures that almost look like lane markers in the wrong places.

Here is your picture but with different labels:

 

[robe900]

Yeah, who knew that stopping distance increases with speed...this is totally new information to me.

Mind blown.

Haha .. good one! But if you forget to change it, it can be fatal is sorta weird, isn’t it ? Quite scary ..