Model X Falcon Doors

[StephRob]

Thinking about those doors in the non-hyped, non-technobeat light of day, I'm not too sure about them. I think they may be one step too far. If Tesla could just produce an all-electric 4WD vehicle that could go to the snow (Tahoe for me), have room for 7 adults, plus all that cargo space, it would have a sure fire winner. The doors IMO may be an unnecessary, controversial complication. I really appreciate Elon et al thinking about the ease of access particularly with small kids and car seats. I have three boys so I've put in my share of car seats. I suppose if you have three car seats at once, it would make getting into the 3rd row difficult. (I understand Elon has 5 boys - bless him! - so he may be thinking about this scenario.) But if you only have one or two, you just put the one without the car seat down to access the 3rd row. I don't think the market for people with 3 car seats is really that big. I guess that would be addressing the minivan segment as he mentioned he was trying to do last night.

FWIW, I sat in the third row last night and was able to enter reasonably well, but getting out of the 3rd row required some maneuvering and a little assistance. (I'm 5'8", 135 pounds and reasonably agile!) I think you'd still be wanting to move the 2nd row forward if adults were using the 3rd row. All in all, I just don't think the falcon doors are necessary. Though they would make quite a statement at pick up at my kids' school!

I'm still totally comfortable with my deposit I made night, but will be interested to see how the design iterations unfold.

 

[ElSupreme]

Adult-sized 3rd row seating is not novel. Here are three examples, not counting huge SUVs:
2012 Honda Oddysey - Interior
2012 Ford Flex - Interior
2012 Chevy Traverse - Interior

I have ridden in the 3rd row of a 2011 Honda Oddysey. It certainly is lacking on the headroom. My head rested against some bulb in the roof the entire ride. And your quote says adults in the 2nd row and teens in the third. Plus I am quite agile, fairly slight (but tall), and young and getting back there was a PITA.

I can not comment on the other two cars.

 

[stopcrazypp]

What I suggest, though, (and this would take some engineering, but nothing that hasn't been done before) would be to make the doors capable of both side opening (suicide style) and fold-up falcon-wing.

Basically like those side-opening and fold-down tailgates:

That's also what I consider to be the best option (if they intend to make the Falcon standard). It allows for the best of both worlds.

As for the Falcon, I think they should make it optional. It'll work for people who don't need a roof rack and has the proper height clearance for in garage (esp. if the doors can be configured to be partially open). But there will be people where the doors will be a deal-breaker.

 

[extesla]

The Falcon doors were Rawlinson's idea. (Rawlinson as in ex-chief body engineer). Totally impractical. The name comes from Elon whose Spacex company makes the Falcon rocket. This is just ego. What is wrong with using the gull wing convention? Tesla is all about ego rather than eco.

 

[Bearman]

Falcon

 

[mattjs33]

Nice work.

Also if the doors only open part way to avoid overhead hazards they could then 'unfold' the lower part of the gullwing to give more head room.

Like in the photo of the door part way open above, imagine if the door then swings the lower half higher without going vertical on the upper part.

The middle hinge is a one way hinge, like an elbow. You could only raise the lower part so far. To make the lower part able to raise at an angle higher than that of the angle of roof-to-side angle (as if the door were closed), would require a two-way hinge which would wreak havoc on the exterior styling. The way the doors are pictured opened in this photo, I would have a very hard time getting out of that back seat without hitting my head.

I'm 6 foot 4. The liftgate of almost every SUV on the market will hit me square in the temple if I'm not careful. Every time I help someone load something heavy into the back of one, the drill is the same: stoop over, heave item, have sore back the rest of the day. Saying these doors lift no higher than an SUV liftgate isn't a good thing. It means to me that eventually someone is going to bash their face on the corner edge.

I've seen show cars from back in the 80's with this type of setup; it's not really new. The reason no one has ever used doors like this on a production vehicle is that it's a stupid idea.

 

[Norbert]

A related question is how much the air suspension will be able to lower the vehicle (and whether that's already part of the photos we see).

 

[action7981]

I think the ability to park close to other cars due to the falcon doors is way overblown. You will only be able to park close enough to another car where the front passengers are able to enter and exit comfortably due to the conventional doors. Can a person get in and out of the front seats with only a little over a foot clearance? I can't imagine they can. Also, I'm not going to intentionally park close to another vehicle knowing that they have conventional doors and are going to hit my car with their door when they go to get in.

I personally don't think they needed to add so much of the roof to the doors. I imagine they gave themselves a specific goal in engineering the falcon doors to open taking the least amount of space possible and that lead to needing to have a hinge point closer to the center of the car. While it's always good to set specific goals, I think they over did it. The swath of the falcon doors would only need to be just under the distance it takes for the front doors to open. With eliminating the majority of the roof section you open up other possibilities in terms of how the door operates. You could have a door that slides up and over the roof like a vertical sliding door.

I just think they spent too much time designing a door that is great in concept but poor in practicability.

 

[doug]

I think the ability to park close to other cars due to the falcon doors is way overblown. You will only be able to park close enough to another car where the front passengers are able to enter and exit comfortably due to the conventional doors.

While that certainly would be a logical fallacy, I believe the comparison Tesla was making was between their "falcon-wing" and the normal gullwing doors. (I.e. not falcon versus conventional car doors.)

Similarly, I don't think Tesla was trying to spread misinformation about the DeLorean doors. Yes those only took a foot of space to open, but that was in a low slung sports car. Standard gullwings on something as tall as an SUV would have a much wider arc. At least I believe that's the argument their making.

 

[doug]

Here's a similar idea from the past. GM's 1977 Aero-vett concept.

Classic and Concept Corvettes Comparison - Motor Trend Classic (From the March, 2006 issue of Motor Trend)

That's exotic. So are the innovative bifold gullwing doors, the main drawback of which is that their windows don't open.

Fortunately the Model X puts the fold above the windows, so I guess they roll down normally.

 

[richkae]

The big difference between the 1977 Aero Vette and the Model X is that the Aero Vette doors actually DO NOT help you get in the car. The bottom edge of the door is not above your head when you are standing up. You still have to stoop over and chicken walk to get in the car.
The Model X falcon doors are above your head so you can "walk" into the car and not stoop over.

The Roadster is so much easier to get into without the top, because you can just fall into the seat. The Aero Vette doors are probably actually a lot worse than normal doors.

 

[doug]

Obligatory:

(Not referring to anything anyone has said in this thread.)

 

[JRP3]

The Falcon doors were Rawlinson's idea. (Rawlinson as in ex-chief body engineer). Totally impractical. The name comes from Elon whose Spacex company makes the Falcon rocket. This is just ego. What is wrong with using the gull wing convention? Tesla is all about ego rather than eco.

Most of your posts are all about your obviously damaged ego. Your agenda is rather transparent. Anyone heading a company to build revolutionary EV's needs to have a large ego.

 

[AnOutsider]

Obligatory:

(Not referring to anything anyone has said in this thread.)

If that were a falcon, that pic would be epicly appropriate.

 

[TEG]

Another pic with them partially open:
Tesla unveils Model X SUV, desires to be your all-electric crossover come 2013 | nexGadget

It is fun being able to stand upright on the sill while the doors are open.
If you had an infant in a child seat this arrangement could be very handy.
On the other hand, I have a tall torso, and I found the back area seating to be more cramped than I expected given the overall height of the vehicle.

 

[TEG]

Some random lift-door vehicles:

(Daimler has a long history of 'gull-wing' doors)

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Anyone upset about losing a panoramic roof thanks to the Falcon doors?!

And, unless I'm mistaken, there are merely (passive - if that's the right word) gas struts that anchor the top (roof) halves to the doors. I'll eat some tasty hat if proven wrong, but, regardless of what others might have heard at the event, I don't think the falcon doors can "stop" - they'll have to keep going all the way up once released. That's how I see the "passive" gas struts work for the rear doors on the Mini Clubman:

TEG's pic above of partially opened falcon doors was, I think, taken by some press chap while the doors were on their way to fully opening - I don't think they had actually stopped opening at that point.

 

[doug]

And, unless I'm mistaken, there are merely (passive - if that's the right word) gas struts that anchor the top (roof) halves to the doors. I'll eat some tasty hat if proven wrong, but, regardless of what others might have heard at the event, I don't think the falcon doors can "stop" - they'll have to keep going all the way up once released.

Given that the doors are able to close at the push of a button, they must have a motor that reels them back in. So it's not too much of a leap to have them stop at a fixed position (however one chooses to engineer that). The pneumatic struts help counter balance the weight of the door.

 

[Norbert]

And, unless I'm mistaken, there are merely (passive - if that's the right word) gas struts that anchor the top (roof) halves to the doors.

Not an expert.... if the doors were driven only by passive elements, how would they work automatically in both directions? I'd think the passive elements are there only to offset the weight of the doors, but the motorized function is some electric motor that can work in both directions... or stop.

I'd think the Falcon doors are especially good for the purposes of a family car.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Yeah, I guess you are right, Doug, Norbert. Now about that hat...