Model X Falcon Doors

[mattjs33]

Hmm... took another look at a different picture, which makes the opening look higher than in the other press photos I saw. Maybe the headroom with the door open is not as bad as I first made it out to be.

But it's still a frivolous desgin element on what is supposed to be a practical vehicle.

 

[ckessel]

I could not fully open those doors in my parent's garage.

People keep saying this, but how can you know? There's no spec on total height released. It certainly didn't look all that tall to me since I think the roof line on the X is lower than most SUV roof lines.

As for folks saying it's frivolous, the videos showed the doors made getting into and out of the car really easy for rear passengers. The opening is quite wide and you can walk in at first rather than the standard "crouch/slide" you have to do to get into rear seats. The reason you don't have falcon doors in front is getting in and out isn't an issue for front seats.

Saying they're frivolous without seeing how the doors work in the real world seems premature. They certainly offer some advantageous differences. Whether it's enough to justify the complications is another matter, but they do have more function than simply looking different.

 

[dmckinstry]

Well, I wouldn't buy the Model X myself, but if you have to ride in the back set of seats I can see a big advantage in the Falcon doors. Last night I had to ride in the back row of a friend's Honda Odyssey. For me it's almost impossible to get in and out. You have to fold the second row seat(s) flat forward, slide the seat all the way forward. Then, when getting in to stand on the floor I have to have my upper body completely horizontal while wriggling my way around the second row seat. If the second row seats in the Model X slide forward even 6 inches, getting into its back row would be easy.

 

[EVNow]

People keep saying this, but how can you know? There's no spec on total height released.

Yesterday I measured the full height using the height of the Model S as reference. Looks like 7' 6". Unlike the snap below, I dragged the wings all the way up. Model S was 28" and X was 44" (on my projector screen).

Ocourse, if the wings can be configured to not open fully, it would work for me.

 

[ElSupreme]

People keep saying this, but how can you know? There's no spec on total height released. It certainly didn't look all that tall to me since I think the roof line on the X is lower than most SUV roof lines.

There is a CNN pic where Elon is standing next to the X with the doors open. It looks to be easily above 7' and close to 7'6". In my garage I have about 7'2" clear of the opener/door. And my work garage is 7'4" clearance, which could work but would be very close.

Granted other than the height issue (anything over 7' in my book is a problem) I think they are pretty awesome. Probaby would want them on the front if possible. I love to close park people who don't care about where they are in the marked spots.

 

[JRP3]

People keep saying this, but how can you know?

Because I have two functioning eyes :wink:

 

[grisnjam]

Yesterday I measured the full height using the height of the Model S as reference. Looks like 7' 6". Unlike the snap below, I dragged the wings all the way up. Model S was 28" and X was 44" (on my projector screen).

Ocourse, if the wings can be configured to not open fully, it would work for me.

Nice work.

Also if the doors only open part way to avoid overhead hazards they could then 'unfold' the lower part of the gullwing to give more head room.

Like in the photo of the door part way open above, imagine if the door then swings the lower half higher without going vertical on the upper part.

 

[WhiteKnight]

Yesterday I measured the full height using the height of the Model S as reference. Looks like 7' 6". Unlike the snap below, I dragged the wings all the way up. Model S was 28" and X was 44" (on my projector screen).

Ocourse, if the wings can be configured to not open fully, it would work for me.

The Model X rear hatch and the falcon doors are the same height and I was told they're about equal to an Audi Q7 hatch. I can't find online what the height of the Q7 rear hatch is when it's fully open.

I was also told the open height is adjustable - probably works like the panoramic roof where you swipe your finger to adjust the height. Maybe you can add some presets for home, work, outside, etc.

 

[doug]

While I like them, I'll admit that the Falcon doors seem a bit gimmicky. I can see situations where they are a significant advantage (loading kids or luggage while outside in nice weather), but I can also see situations where they are a significant disadvantage (overhead clearance in some garages, can't use a roof rack, wet interior in heavy rain). Perhaps Tesla can make them optional and otherwise use suicide doors (given how they've chosen to place both "handles" at the B-pillar").

What I suggest, though, (and this would take some engineering, but nothing that hasn't been done before) would be to make the doors capable of both side opening (suicide style) and fold-up falcon-wing.

Basically like those side-opening and fold-down tailgates:

 

[Fr23shjive]

I'll admit that the Falcon doors seem a bit gimmicky. I can see situations where they are a significant advantage (loading kids or luggage while outside in nice weather), but I can also see situations where they are a significant disadvantage (overhead clearance in some garages, can't use roof rack, wet interior in heavy rain). Perhaps Tesla can make them optional and otherwise use suicide doors (given how they've chosen to place both "handles" at the B-pillar").


What I suggest (and this would take some engineering, but nothing that hasn't been done before) would be to make the doors capable of both side opening (suicide style) and fold-up falcon-wing.

That's an idea I can get behind. I'm surprised that Tesla went "all in" with the falcon doors and didnt give the option for other styles.

 

[EVNow]

I see a lot of SUVs with various Thule and other cargo carriers on top of SUVs. You can't do that with the falcon.

The question finally would be - do the falcons bring in more people to Tesla than they drive away.

Making them optional would be the best bet - but that would require 2 structurally different bodies. Not easy for a small company like Tesla.

 

[ckessel]

Perhaps Tesla can make them optional and otherwise use suicide doors (given how they've chosen to place both "handles" at the B-pillar")

I've got suicide doors on my RX8 and they definately do NOT make it easier to get in an out of. In cramped quarters it works like this:
- front person has to get out
- close the front door to get on the other side of it
- then reopen the front door (since the rear can't open unless the front is open)
- the rear door opens, the person slides out and occupies the space inside the front door
- squeeze the rear door shut
- then finally get out of the way to close the front door

Bleah, it's crap from an experience point of view. They're good from a body space required and impact on car length, but not fun to use.

 

[ElSupreme]

I see a lot of SUVs with various Thule and other cargo carriers on top of SUVs. You can't do that with the falcon.

The question finally would be - do the falcons bring in more people to Tesla than they drive away.

Making them optional would be the best bet - but that would require 2 structurally different bodies. Not easy for a small company like Tesla.

I have had a bike rack on my car since I have had them. I don't think I would put them on an EV. Putting stuff up there kills mileage (and for the EV range) I would use a hitch bike mount, or tow a small trailer. I bet you get better range that way. Plus that car is HUGE. You could'n take 4 buddies mountain biking without exterior bike mounts but solo or duo trips you could probably put stuff in the car.

EDIT: And a small trailer really doesn't cost that much more than a full bike rack. Mine holds 3 bikes, with 3 wheel forks (which get taken off) cost $750 about 7 year ago.

 

[doug]

I've got suicide doors on my RX8 and they definately do NOT make it easier to get in an out of. In cramped quarters it works like this:
- front person has to get out
- close the front door to get on the other side of it
- then reopen the front door (since the rear can't open unless the front is open)
- the rear door opens, the person slides out and occupies the space inside the front door
- squeeze the rear door shut
- then finally get out of the way to close the front door

Bleah, it's crap from an experience point of view. They're good from a body space required and impact on car length, but not fun to use.

Umm, that's the RX8. They can certainly be designed so the doors open independently. (cf. the Lincoln Continental)

Anyhow, I only suggested suicide doors since that could be done without changing the exterior styling. I really think they should do (however) side-opening and falcon-wing in one since that would be best of both worlds, if it can be done right. Probably would require reinforcing the C-pillar and the door able to separate at the "falcon" fold hinge.

 

[rabar10]

Unlike every other automotive innovation that Tesla has introduced, the Falcon Wing doors have nothing to do with the vehicle being an EV.

Which makes me wonder why no other automaker has done anything like it before, on vehicles in this segment.

 

[ElSupreme]

Is that photo from Goldfinger? Looks like young Sean Connery in the rear passenger seat.

 

[doug]

Is that photo from Goldfinger? Looks like young Sean Connery in the rear passenger seat.

Yes, yes. And Felix Lighter exiting the car.

 

[richkae]

Unlike every other automotive innovation that Tesla has introduced, the Falcon Wing doors have nothing to do with the vehicle being an EV.

Which makes me wonder why no other automaker has done anything like it before, on vehicles in this segment.

I disagree. The Model X has enough space to offer 3rd row seating that fits real adults which might largely be because of its EV packaging. Once you have 3rd row seats that fit real adults, you want to make it convenient to use them.

 

[ckessel]

Umm, that's the RX8. They can certainly be designed so the doors open independently. (cf. the Lincoln Continental)

I believe reason they aren't independent anymore is the "suicide" part. For safety, the rear door isn't allowed to open without the front being open.

 

[rabar10]

I disagree. The Model X has enough space to offer 3rd row seating that fits real adults which might largely be because of its EV packaging. Once you have 3rd row seats that fit real adults, you want to make it convenient to use them.

Adult-sized 3rd row seating is not novel. Here are three examples, not counting huge SUVs:
2012 Honda Oddysey - Interior
2012 Ford Flex - Interior
2012 Chevy Traverse - Interior