Model X Falcon Doors

[JRP3]

Exactly :wink: I believe keeping the laminar flow over the roof smooth and intact and having the skis in the already turbulent trailing air behind the vehicle would be much better. Hitch racks can carry skis on the diagonal so that the tips don't even project above the rear of the vehicle. Some commenters on SA who seem to know more about fluid dynamics than myself also agree.

 

[jomo25]

Exactly :wink: I believe keeping the laminar flow over the roof smooth and intact and having the skis in the already turbulent trailing air behind the vehicle would be much better. Hitch racks can carry skis on the diagonal so that the tips don't even project above the rear of the vehicle. Some commenters on SA who seem to know more about fluid dynamics than myself also agree.

Swore I read someone even claim that it could IMPROVE aerodynamics when mounted on the hitch behind the X.

 

[AudubonB]

Wind tunnel results or it didn't happen.


So to speak

 

[NigelM]

I did. They entered, the two other vehicles pulled up close. The falcon door demonstration happened, then the other cars pulled off. No driver exited because the driver's side door wouldn't have been able to open. That was my point.

This one is still a puzzler. I'm fit and agile enough to climb over seats, so is my wife but she's not going to do that if she's wearing a skirt.

 

[scottf200]

I did. They entered, the two other vehicles pulled up close. The falcon door demonstration happened, then the other cars pulled off. No driver exited because the driver's side door wouldn't have been able to open. That was my point.

Maybe.

Image: http://i.imgur.com/152Hcvu.png

 

[ohmman]

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I haven't had the luxury of being around an actual Model X, so I could be dead wrong.

Trying to understand it from his tweet, the paraphrase would be something like - swing doors can open in really tight places, unless they're back swing doors which are large enough to allow access to the third row, in which case they need to be falcon wings. In other words, a larger door would make it tough to keep that tight arc. Am I getting that right? If so, it seems weird that the front doors appear larger than the rear in any side shot.

I suppose I'll just have to take his tweet for it until I can get personal with one.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I haven't had the luxury of being around an actual Model X, so I could be dead wrong.

Trying to understand it from his tweet, the paraphrase would be something like - swing doors can open in really tight places, unless they're back swing doors which are large enough to allow access to the third row, in which case they need to be falcon wings. In other words, a larger door would make it tough to keep that tight arc. Am I getting that right? If so, it seems weird that the front doors appear larger than the rear in any side shot.

I suppose I'll just have to take his tweet for it until I can get personal with one.

I think what he's saying about the short arc is that you'll with a shallow angle you have more space near the end of the door.
A short door allows you to open a greater angle, which seems more open, but implies a smaller opening out of the vehicle.
If you think of opening a car door, you have
1) opening in the car
2) car door
3) line perpendicular to rear of opening in car and other car.
4) section of other car between end of car door and (3)
Thst describes a trapezoid (UK trapezium)
If the ratio between car door length and space between cars is d, the area of that trapezoid grows with d, so unless the gap is really, really narrow, your overall maneuvering should be easier with a longer door: a bit more of a squeeze in the gap, but easier in a d out of the car. He mentioned that the door is chamfered so that at the end, where the squeeze is, you'd have more room.

 

[scottf200]

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I haven't had the luxury of being around an actual Model X, so I could be dead wrong.

Trying to understand it from his tweet, the paraphrase would be something like - swing doors can open in really tight places, unless they're back swing doors which are large enough to allow access to the third row, in which case they need to be falcon wings. In other words, a larger door would make it tough to keep that tight arc. Am I getting that right? If so, it seems weird that the front doors appear larger than the rear in any side shot.

I suppose I'll just have to take his tweet for it until I can get personal with one.

Orig image: http://www.doordefender.es/img/cms/install_step1.gif

Image: http://i.imgur.com/IR5m7gE.png

I couldn't find a great picture. This one is dark but you can see where the end of the door tapers down (stair steps down).
Image: http://i.imgur.com/fkDXAqv.png

 

[Cattledog]

For those who haven't yet seen the movie, the rover vehicle in The Martian has a big windshield (with lots of struts) and gull wing doors (didn't see second hinge action). It does have floor windows, sort of a glass bottom boat effect, as well. Maybe part of 2017 update? Good movie, BTW.

 

[EchoDelta]

For those who haven't yet seen the movie, the rover vehicle in The Martian has a big windshield (with lots of struts) and gull wing doors (didn't see second hinge action). It does have floor windows, sort of a glass bottom boat effect, as well. Maybe part of 2017 update? Good movie, BTW.

Loved the book, except that the last 25% seemed rushed. Will watch the movie some day...

 

[Oyvind.H]

Exactly :wink: I believe keeping the laminar flow over the roof smooth and intact and having the skis in the already turbulent trailing air behind the vehicle would be much better. Hitch racks can carry skis on the diagonal so that the tips don't even project above the rear of the vehicle. Some commenters on SA who seem to know more about fluid dynamics than myself also agree.

I`ve seen several negative comments about a rear mounted ski rack. Bechause of turbulence the skis will be covered in dirt and snow, unless the rack is some kind of ski box.
Doesn`t matter to me as I always put skis inside the car, but apparently not ideal (other than aerodynamics).

 

[Skotty]

A quick note about gull wing vs falcon wing. (note that I have previously owned a DeLorean) Keeping things simple, sometimes folks (like Musk) will say the falcon wing doesn't have the problem of a gull wing because of the double hinge. However, it should be noted that this problem really only applies to taller vehicles. When you have a short vehicle like the DeLorean, the door arc is already getting close to horizontal, so the door doesn't swing out much. However, on a car like the Model X, the vertical distance between the upper hinge and the lowest part of the door is greater, thus the door arc is less horizontal, and the door would swing out further without the innovative double hinge.

 

[Oyvind.H]

Does anyone have closeup pictures of the area between the rear doors and the rear hatch (roof area)?
I wonder if snow on the rear hatch might slide directly into the back seat of the falcon doors are open.

 

[ecarfan]

I wonder if snow on the rear hatch might slide directly into the back seat of the falcon doors are open.

There has been extensive discussion about that in other threads. No one knows the answer yet. Of course you should brush accumulated snow off your car's roof before driving, but that can be difficult for some people to do if they are short and the car is tall.
But think about how much range you will loose with snow on your roof: increased drag.

 

[scottf200]

Does anyone have closeup pictures of the area between the rear doors and the rear hatch (roof area)?
I wonder if snow on the rear hatch might slide directly into the back seat of the falcon doors are open.

It is unclear to me why you would need a closeup. Seems like that pictures shows it would.
Simple solution tho. Brush. I've lived in three snowy states so get snow accumulating on cars.
Image: http://i.imgur.com/H6PinfY.png

 

[MartinScorpio]

Will Falcon Wing Doors and Parabolic Wind Screen be optional?

I wouldn't be surprised if FWD and the PWS will turn out to be optional.

In the luxury car business, the real profit margins are made on options and Tesla is no different if you look at their pricing structure for the MS.

Both FWD and PWS add a lot of cost and complexity to the MX, much more than the 5.000 extra compared to a similar MX as Tesla keep repeating will be the base price for the MX.

I for one, would be happy if they do turn out to be optional. Don't like the complexity of the FWD, especially given all the leaks they've had with the pano. And a stone against that large windscreen...

 

[drewgould]

Seems very unlikely. The entire body is engineered around those doors opening to towards the top and the glass coming back over the front seats. The panoramic roof on the Model S is just a roof change. That would be a roof change, door change and windshield change.

 

[Saghost]

I wouldn't be surprised if FWD and the PWS will turn out to be optional.

In the luxury car business, the real profit margins are made on options and Tesla is no different if you look at their pricing structure for the MS.

Both FWD and PWS add a lot of cost and complexity to the MX, much more than the 5.000 extra compared to a similar MX as Tesla keep repeating will be the base price for the MX.

I for one, would be happy if they do turn out to be optional. Don't like the complexity of the FWD, especially given all the leaks they've had with the pano. And a stone against that large windscreen...

No chance. They'd have to completely re-engineer the upper cabin crash structure, and re-do all of the testing. A car without those features is somewhat easier to redesign - but it would be effectively a whole new design, with new certification testing.
Walter

 

[MartinScorpio]

No chance. They'd have to completely re-engineer the upper cabin crash structure, and re-do all of the testing. A car without those features is somewhat easier to redesign - but it would be effectively a whole new design, with new certification testing.
Walter

Why? Keep the structure as is. bolt an aluminum roof onto it. add hinges for normal doors. fit doors. fit regular windscreen.

 

[Saghost]

Why? Keep the structure as is. bolt an aluminum roof onto it. add hinges for normal doors. fit doors. fit regular windscreen.

The door openings are the wrong shape, and you'll have to add a substantial crossbeam at the a-pillars to support the rear of he new smaller windshield. That'd change the way the car behaves in a crash, as would the roof panel inserts and new hinges/fastening systems.

You'd reduce the redesign work with your approach, but not the testing requirements - and you'd keep the existing heavy H truss, so it'd be heavier than it needs to be. I really can't see Tesla doing it.