Model X has single 72A charger

[FlasherZ]

Circuits are derated at 80% with continuous loads so a 100 amp circuit will supply 80 amps (slightly exceeding the 72 amp onboard charger) while the 80 amp circuit will supply 64 amps (slightly below the 72 amp onboard charger).

64 / 72 = 0.88
0.88 * 45 mph = 39.6 (or ~40 mph)

Just a quick reminder: Circuits are not de-rated. Circuit ratings must be 125% of the offered continuous load. It's an important distinction when derating factors need to be stacked. Just a friendly reminder from your electrical semantic/pedantic guy.

For what it's worth, even Tesla's documentation gets confusing and I have provided feedback to the team on how to make the HPWC manual clearer to installers. I've seen way too many electricians install #4 conductors and an 80A breaker because they read 80A charging and don't have experience with continuous load rules.

 

[Paul Carter]

Thanks for the fast reply. Just ordered the new wall charger and contacted my electrician.

Oh I just noticed you said new but linked the old manual I think. The new one could be on a 90 amp circuit setting now that'll deliver 72 amps, but you're dual charger Model S would like the extra 8 amps if you put it on a 100 amp circuit.

 

[aegis395]

Just a quick reminder: Circuits are not de-rated. Circuit ratings must be 125% of the offered continuous load. It's an important distinction when derating factors need to be stacked. Just a friendly reminder from your electrical semantic/pedantic guy.

Thank you for the correction/clarification. I guess that's why a layperson should hire a professional electrician and both should consult their local electrical semantic/pedantic guy.

 

[Gwgan]

Oh I just noticed you said new but linked the old manual I think. The new one could be on a 90 amp circuit setting now that'll deliver 72 amps, but you're dual charger Model S would like the extra 8 amps if you put it on a 100 amp circuit.

Grabbed that link from the TM site; if there is a newer one I’d like to share that one with the electrician.
Planning on 100amps, for PlugShare purposes.

 

[goneskiian]

Grabbed that link from the TM site; if there is a newer one I’d like to share that one with the electrician.
Planning on 100amps, for PlugShare purposes.

There are links on the ordering page in the store...

https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/d...ll_Connector_Installation_Manual_EN_JP_ES.pdf

 

[Paul Carter]

Grabbed that link from the TM site; if there is a newer one I’d like to share that one with the electrician.
Planning on 100amps, for PlugShare purposes.

Hope to visit that plugshare soon-ish!

 

[Paul Carter]

There are links on the ordering page in the store...

https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/d...ll_Connector_Installation_Manual_EN_JP_ES.pdf

+1 that is the one off the shop details.

 

[K-MTG]

Just noticed this in the design studio, I can enable mine after delivery for $1,900! Great, I guess those who ordered earlier and missed the easter egg have a chance now. I wonder if this is software related

 

[JCB_Arizona]

Just noticed this in the design studio, I can enable mine after delivery for $1,900! Great, I guess those who ordered earlier and missed the easter egg have a chance now. I wonder if this is software related
View attachment 174839

I saw that, too. (Hard to Justify a $1500 option that doesn't carry much improved performance.) I guess it can still be installed afterwards if I change my mind after a year!

 

[TexasEV]

This raises more questions. Why did a Tesla describe this as a hardware choice that couldn't be changed after ordering? Why did Tesla marketing folks insist that 48A was all people needed until forced to offer the 72A option after the outcry from people who had actually driven Model S outside of the California superchargerland?

 

[AWDtsla]

This raises more questions. Why did a Tesla describe this as a hardware choice that couldn't be changed after ordering? Why did Tesla marketing folks insist that 48A was all people needed until forced to offer the 72A option after the outcry from people who had actually driven Model S outside of the California superchargerland?

I bet they decided to make all the hardware the same, given how little it costs to put 50% more MOSFETs in the same package, then just make it software option. They probably save money given service shortages, where service is busy working on warranty items.

What's shitty is that my car probably has a 48A or 72A charger in it right now, which is software limited to 40A.

 

[goneskiian]

Well look at that.

For those that don't frequent the official Tesla forums, someone who claims to know some higher up engineers said this was going to happen a few months ago. People shot him down, and some not very nicely. Seems they may owe him an apology. I thought he posted that information here too but I can't seem to find it in this thread.

Anyway, I'm not surprised as I believed him.

Cheers!

 

[goneskiian]

I have confirmed it was a user named MichaelW whose account doesn't seem to exist here any longer. Anyway, thanks for the info MichaelW!

 

[TexasEV]

Well look at that.

For those that don't frequent the official Tesla forums, someone who claims to know some higher up engineers said this was going to happen a few months ago. People shot him down, and some not very nicely. Seems they may owe him an apology. I thought he posted that information here too but I can't seem to find it in this thread.

Anyway, I'm not surprised as I believed him.

Cheers!

People shot him down because it was directly contradicted by specific statements from Tesla that the hardware was not upgradable after purchase. Who are you going to believe, someone who heard something from someone else, or an official statement from Tesla? Why did a Tesla make such an effort to push 48A chargers over 72A and tell people they had to decide before the car was built?

 

[ohmman]

People shot him down because it was directly contradicted by specific statements from Tesla that the hardware was not upgradable after purchase. Who are you going to believe, someone who heard something from someone else, or an official statement from Tesla? Why did a Tesla make such an effort to push 48A chargers over 72A and tell people they had to decide before the car was built?

Good questions, and definitely the reasonable approach to being skeptical of this kind of claim. However, I think there's another aspect to what @goneskiian is saying. Members can learn from this and inject a little bit of humility into their responses. Many times, these claims are met with the concrete wall assuredness of people who don't learn from being wrong. Confidence is one thing, but unwavering confidence often borders on arrogance.

 

[AnOutsider]

Good questions, and definitely the reasonable approach to being skeptical of this kind of claim. However, I think there's another aspect to what @goneskiian is saying. Members can learn from this and inject a little bit of humility into their responses. Many times, these claims are met with the concrete wall assuredness of people who don't learn from being wrong. Confidence is one thing, but unwavering confidence often borders on arrogance.

Not to mention those rebuttals often turn into personal attacks.

In any case, it still boggles me they downgraded on the charger. My wife forgot to plug in last night and went to do it this morning before leaving so she could get a lil extra juice. Seeing hers plug along at 47mph while mine charged at 60mph was funny in a sad sort of way.

But hey! No one ever needs to charge fast at home, right?!?!

 

[Cyclone]

When the 72a charger started making rounds, there were musings that it is likely all chargers can support this, but Tesla wasn't getting the best reliability out of the 72a. The thought was probably some subcomponent of the charger needed some better manufacturing (either defect in manu. or better design requirements). So the upfront different was probably from some stress testing and few units could certify to sustain 72a reliable long-term. Those that didn't, got limited to 48a.

Now, it is likely that this subcomponent was improved and all of these chargers can support 72a. However, statistically speaking, running at 72a likely causes more stress on the components and could lead to a higher degree of manufacturing defects to come to light (there will always be a few units that aren't perfect). So now Tesla may feel confident in allowing the chargers to run up to 72a and just use this as a software limit to control pricing.

 

[FlasherZ]

The only thing known for sure at this point is that the same charger is present in all vehicles, whichever option you chose. The reasoning for it is publicly unknown. There's been speculation of component quality / "parts binning", marketing differentiation, materials delay, etc. All of that is still unfounded, with a couple of people giving me a few clues that align with marketing/pricing differentiation sprinkled with a bit of religion about how much AC charging one needs. It's clear to me that they didn't anticipate the number of people who came back and complained about 48A. Take that with a grain of salt, though, because it's not official.

At the time, there were skeptics (including myself) because - as mentioned earlier - Tesla said via official channels that it could not be upgraded later. Tesla had a limited history of putting full-featured hardware into the car and using software to enable it (40 kWh, supercharging, autopilot); chargers were expensive and those listening to the "cash preservation" messages from Tesla wondered why they would fit up the cars with a full-featured charger while heading in the opposite direction with Model S and its dual chargers (pushing more people to sticking with single chargers).

Another reason that I was skeptical is that the poster in question kept using non-Tesla terms for the people he talked to... referred to the "head designer" in a sales location, the "chief engineer", etc. We all know that TMC gets used occasionally as a medium for the naysayers, whether shorts or trolls or just general anti-Tesla.

So there are/were good reasons to be skeptical.

 

[goneskiian]

People shot him down because it was directly contradicted by specific statements from Tesla that the hardware was not upgradable after purchase. Who are you going to believe, someone who heard something from someone else, or an official statement from Tesla? Why did a Tesla make such an effort to push 48A chargers over 72A and tell people they had to decide before the car was built?

You must have missed the whole "Eds" thread regarding delays on the X. Who was more correct there, Eds or Tesla?

Yes, we should be able to believe what Tesla says but they haven't proven to me to be a reliable source on issues like this. That's why I chose to believe this source over Tesla. They've also said that only the P90D gets an active spoiler (not true so far), that original S owners would get new lighted visors, that they were upgrading Superchargers to provide faster charging for everyone (except for those with "A" packs), that the second row of seats in the X folded (initial prototype), that battery swap stations would be widespread, etc.

You can believe every line Tesla feeds you, I'm simply adding some salt to what they're feeding me.

Cheers!

 

[goneskiian]

The only thing known for sure at this point is that the same charger is present in all vehicles, whichever option you chose. The reasoning for it is publicly unknown. There's been speculation of component quality / "parts binning", marketing differentiation, materials delay, etc. All of that is still unfounded, with a couple of people giving me a few clues that align with marketing/pricing differentiation sprinkled with a bit of religion about how much AC charging one needs. It's clear to me that they didn't anticipate the number of people who came back and complained about 48A. Take that with a grain of salt, though, because it's not official.

At the time, there were skeptics (including myself) because - as mentioned earlier - Tesla said via official channels that it could not be upgraded later. Tesla had a limited history of putting full-featured hardware into the car and using software to enable it (40 kWh, supercharging, autopilot); chargers were expensive and those listening to the "cash preservation" messages from Tesla wondered why they would fit up the cars with a full-featured charger while heading in the opposite direction with Model S and its dual chargers (pushing more people to sticking with single chargers).

Another reason that I was skeptical is that the poster in question kept using non-Tesla terms for the people he talked to... referred to the "head designer" in a sales location, the "chief engineer", etc. We all know that TMC gets used occasionally as a medium for the naysayers, whether shorts or trolls or just general anti-Tesla.

So there are/were good reasons to be skeptical.

You said it much better than I did. Thanks.