Model X Mule Sightings

[AnxietyRanger]

Without reopening old discussions I can tell you that Tesla uses aluminum body panels. Those panels can be pressed on relatively cheap wooden dies (nowhere near good enough for full production, but easy to produce 50-100 sets); Tesla's stamping and pressing capabilities are already in-house. So yes, it's quite easy and cheap to do this.

WRT to plastic parts, IIRC Tesla has some in-house ability to make small number of plastic parts; even if they couldn't do that they could be getting small quantities made by third parties. Or hey, there's always 3D printing. Worth noting how often plastic trim has been missing or mis-matched on color. So that's also possible.

Fair enough, that is a plausible theory. Good to see someone spell it out. Helps put mind around this speculation.

 

[NigelM]

Regarding the huge windshield, considering the leaks and mule interior photos, I believe it is a pretty sure A pillars will have no cross-beam and that the front window will be huge...

That part I'm going to buy into (especially because I think that's totally cool and I want it!)...given Tesla's standards on safety I'm also going to go out on a limb and speculate that it must be something like Gorilla glass. Would this be the first automotive use of Gorilla? I know I've read about it before as a general concept.

 

[araxara]

I also noticed that the windshield wipers are either missing or tucked below the hood line:

 

[NigelM]

I also noticed that the windshield wipers are either missing or tucked below the hood line:

That was pointed out yesterday already; but I agree it looks neat if they're truly tucked down behind the hood.

 

[vandacca]

Here's more......

What I find most intriguing is that the above picture appears to show no side mirrors. The cover over the mirrors appears deflated, indicating that there are no mirrors there. Also, if the mirrors were folded-in, I would expect there to be a lump in that area, which I also do not see. Any thoughts???

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What I find most intriguing is that the above picture appears to show no side mirrors. The cover over the mirrors appears deflated, indicating that there are no mirrors there. Also, if the mirrors were folded-in, I would expect there to be a lump in that area, which I also do not see. Any thoughts???

On second thought, there does appear to be a lump a little lower and little further back that might be a folded mirror. Not 100% sure though.

 

[BerTX]

What I find most intriguing is that the above picture appears to show no side mirrors. The cover over the mirrors appears deflated, indicating that there are no mirrors there. Also, if the mirrors were folded-in, I would expect there to be a lump in that area, which I also do not see. Any thoughts???

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On second thought, there does appear to be a lump a little lower and little further back that might be a folded mirror. Not 100% sure though.

The set of three pictures that the one you reposted came from are all of the same car, and the other two photos both have mirrors.

 

[Saghost]

What I find most intriguing is that the above picture appears to show no side mirrors. The cover over the mirrors appears deflated, indicating that there are no mirrors there. Also, if the mirrors were folded-in, I would expect there to be a lump in that area, which I also do not see. Any thoughts???

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On second thought, there does appear to be a lump a little lower and little further back that might be a folded mirror. Not 100% sure though.

I'm pretty sure there's a mirror above and behind the drooping "mirror pocket" in the cover. Pity - I liked the mirrorless approach and I'm confident it would yield a better driving experience.
Walter

 

[bonnie]

TI'm also going to go out on a limb and speculate that it must be something like Gorilla glass. Would this be the first automotive use of Gorilla? I know I've read about it before as a general concept.

Concur.

 

[scaesare]

Please take this in the humor it is intended--sure, the scenario you lay out is *possible.* But is it really likely?

Keep in mind I was responding to timf's assertions that " These have to be the release candidates that we are seeing, and they have to be representative of the production version. Otherwise, they can't possibly meet the schedule they have set. "

A bunch of assertions there that there can be no other possibility. I point out there could be. And you seem to agree. I left "likelihood" out of it.

But now that you say:

That all the prototypes we've seen are fakes? That all of the real ones are being tested indoors, or at night, or somewhere where no one has cameraphones? That Tesla is the first automaker basically in history to develop and test a new model and not have pictures of the new model leak out a few weeks before deliveries begin?

I'm not suggesting new models can't leak. Heck I'm the one that posted what I believe may have been the first leaked pic of a P85D (or prototype) better than a year and a half ago ago. But as far as I can tell, we haven't seen any covert factory-floor type pics. (There was that CAD drawing release some time back...)

What I am suggesting is that we have seen an abundance of pics with of versions of the X casually driving around or parked, with very little attempt to conceal it overall. This despite Elon's assertions that we wouldn't see the final until the reveal.

So, do I believe it's possible that we could see a leaked final version before Tesla intends? Sure.

Do I think it's likely that Elon is just gonna drive the final model around the streets and hope nobody notices in the day and age of the ubiquitous camera phone (as you rightly point out)? Not necessarily.

 

[Saghost]

That part I'm going to buy into (especially because I think that's totally cool and I want it!)...given Tesla's standards on safety I'm also going to go out on a limb and speculate that it must be something like Gorilla glass. Would this be the first automotive use of Gorilla? I know I've read about it before as a general concept.

Most of the time this would be awesome. Hopefully Tesla has a plan for sunrises/sunsets (large visors on the side that fold to the front when needed?) and keeping people from baking in the summer sun.
Walter

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Most of the time this would be awesome. Hopefully Tesla has a plan for sunrises/sunsets (large visors on the side that fold to the front when needed?) and keeping people from baking in the summer sun.
Walter

Special glass sounds likely for the windshield - no idea if Gorilla in particular would be applicable to automotive, but could very well be, haven't dug into it. It would make a great marketing headline, that's for sure, as many people are aware of Gorilla from consumer electronics. As said, electrochromic or similar "magic" windows with adaptive tinting have been speculated as well.

As for sunvisors, the September leakster's CAD apparently had sunvisors attached to A pillar (as there was no crossbeam), but that can be old information and of course would be preclude other tinting (fixed or adaptive) being available.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

That was pointed out yesterday already; but I agree it looks neat if they're truly tucked down behind the hood.

Maybe the unannounced feature is Dyson Airblade technology, adapted to blow all water away from the windshield.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I'm not suggesting new models can't leak. Heck I'm the one that posted what I believe may have been the first leaked pic of a P85D (or prototype) better than a year and a half ago ago. But as far as I can tell, we haven't seen any covert factory-floor type pics. (There was that CAD drawing release some time back...)

What I am suggesting is that we have seen an abundance of pics with of versions of the X casually driving around or parked, with very little attempt to conceal it overall. This despite Elon's assertions that we wouldn't see the final until the reveal.

So, do I believe it's possible that we could see a leaked final version before Tesla intends? Sure.

Do I think it's likely that Elon is just gonna drive the final model around the streets and hope nobody notices in the day and age of the ubiquitous camera phone (as you rightly point out)? Not necessarily.

I concur the Model X mules seem very lightly disguised. The earliest dock-drive camo (car wrapped in black and white shapes) would be more the kind I would expect from the average automotive company for their mules and pre-production models on the roads. So, certainly one could conclude from the light camo that there isn't much to hide here. It isn't impossible.

That said, it would also be possible Tesla isn't interested in hiding the side profile and are content with camoing the front and (to a lesser extent) rear, and especially camoing the interior and windows/roof window. Those would still allow for a significant reveal surprise, even if the doors and side profile were near-final.

We shall see. Both theories are possible.

 

[Saghost]

Maybe the unannounced feature is Dyson Airblade technology, adapted to blow all water away from the windshield.

Aircraft use high velocity attached air for a bunch of different things - most commonly lift enhancement (sometimes described as boundary layer control.) If you have a good source for the high energy air, this is totally doable - especially if the windshield is coated with a hydrophobic coating (RainX or better.)

Not sure how you'd handle the washer aspect, though - could try to use a water sheet or spray with a typical washer and then blow, but I don't think it'd be as effective as conventional wiper/washer systems.
Walter

 

[TEG]

...I'm also going to go out on a limb and speculate that it must be something like Gorilla glass. Would this be the first automotive use of Gorilla? I know I've read about it before as a general concept.

I heard rumors of the same.

We have discussed Gorilla glass on the forum before. It has been mentioned for Automotive use for a while.

CORNING GLASS | AUTOMOTIVE
Corning putting Gorilla Glass into cars - Business Insider
Gorilla Glass coming to cars, making them more resilient and efficient | ExtremeTech
Mobile Summit 2013: Corning’s Gorilla Glass Is Coming to Cars Next | MIT Technology Review
What if Your Windshield Was Made of Gorilla Glass? The Beginning of the Glass Age | TG Daily
http://www.slashgear.com/bmw-i8-is-first-car-ever-to-be-fitted-with-gorilla-glass-08293148/
Automotive Applications New Revenue Potential For Corning's Gorilla Glass - Forbes

"...Corning had recently announced that BMW will be using Gorilla Glass for the interior windows of their i8 sports car..."

Start at :14 :

 

[gjunky]

I would assume that the extended windshield / roof glass will have a cross bar between the a pillars underneath that glass. Why would you need gorilla glass? It is not like it has to be scratch proof and auto glass already is a form of safety glass.

That said, I like the look and hope it will be tinted as it will be warm in the dessert. Big visors are always a good idea.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I would assume that the extended windshield / roof glass will have a cross bar between the a pillars underneath that glass. Why would you need gorilla glass? It is not like it has to be scratch proof and auto glass already is a form of safety glass.

That said, I like the look and hope it will be tinted as it will be warm in the dessert. Big visors are always a good idea.

Is there some particular reason you assume a cross-beam between A pillars? I know the 2012-2013 prototype had it, but that is old news by new.

Considering:

- September 2014 leaked CAD (that Tesla had pulled) showed no cross-beam
- Model X mules photographed from suitable angle clearly show no cross-beam

The scratch-proof angle, though, is one that has made me think about Gorilla glass and the like in the past. Automotive needs are different from the needs of a cellphone. That said, TEG's latest post seems to put such thoughts aside.

 

[gjunky]

Because I doubt it will be the safest SUV on the road without the a-pillar crossbeam, especially because of the extra effort I think is required to support the falcon wing doors.
If the model X is 10% heavier then the Model S, it will be over 5200lbs. That is a lot of weight in a roll over accident. I am not a structural engineer. Just my opinion .

 

[Saghost]

Because I doubt it will be the safest SUV on the road without the a-pillar crossbeam, especially because of the extra effort I think is required to support the falcon wing doors.
If the model X is 10% heavier then the Model S, it will be over 5200lbs. That is a lot of weight in a roll over accident. I am not a structural engineer. Just my opinion .

The doors aren't a factor - there's definitely going to be a B and C pillar crossbeam truss structure supporting the doors and rear hatch and protecting the car from rollovers. This will completely encapsulate the falcon doors...

Having a cross beam at the A pillars would likely mean you could make weaker A pillars - but the strength of A-pillars needed to protect the car without an A crossbeam should still be much less than convertibles need, and certainly doable in my semi-informed technical opinion (I am an engineer, doing structures among other things - but I have no experience with recent automotive crash design, only what I've read in articles.)
Walter

 

[pvogel]

The doors aren't a factor - there's definitely going to be a B and C pillar crossbeam truss structure supporting the doors and rear hatch and protecting the car from rollovers. This will completely encapsulate the falcon doors...

Having a cross beam at the A pillars would likely mean you could make weaker A pillars - but the strength of A-pillars needed to protect the car without an A crossbeam should still be much less than convertibles need, and certainly doable in my semi-informed technical opinion (I am an engineer, doing structures among other things - but I have no experience with recent automotive crash design, only what I've read in articles.)
Walter

In fact, if you think about the door frame support structure needed for the Falcon Wing doors, what you effectively have is a roll cage like on a dune buggy. Front cage directly behind the front seats, rear cage behind the first row of back seats. Assuming everyone is belted in, that would be a very safe environment in a roll over.

Peter+