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Model Y Auto Pilot Nearly Unusable

mark95476

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
1,986
1,526
Bay Area CA
Ahhhhhh...... So your definition of phantom braking is regen. Now I get it why so many anonymous nicks like you are complaining that it happens all the time.

Here's another reviewer with video. He mentions random slow-downs, but not "braking". These are probably due to outdated map data, but who knows.


Protip: You can keep your foot lightly on the gas pedal, just like holding the steering wheel so you don't get the AP nag. You're welcome!

So... the car slows down all on its own without slamming on the brakes. This is the definition of phantom braking. Full on Emergency Braking is another issue (that I am also experiencing, but much less frequently).

You don't like the truth and say I am spreading FUD... and then admit you have phantom braking yourself... you just don't call it that.
 
I have a November 2020 Model Y Performance (SW: 2021.24.11) and while I love the car and have zero regrets about buying it, I've taken it on 4 1000+ mile road trips so far and on my car, the auto pilot needs improvement. My issues are the same as others have posted:
  • Phantom braking. Usually happens when passing a tractor trailer. The car will brake extremely hard due to the slightest movement of the big rig. Far too cautious IMHO. Phantom braking also happens when negotiating some curves. It seems like taking a tight curve at high speeds is the most common trigger in this scenario. Finally, sometimes the car phantom brakes on a clear day (daytime, not night) with no other vehicles in front or beside me.
  • Very slow to resume the set speed after it slows down for traffic. This is most noticeable when coming up behind slow traffic in the right lane, I move to the left and it takes too long to resume my set speed (again IMHO).
  • The default behavior of trying to keep the car centered in what it thinks is the lane leads to some jerky driving. This is most evident when in the right lane and you pass an on-ramp. Due to the lane marking to the right disappearing for a bit, the car thinks the lane has suddenly widened and centers itself. Then when the lane resumes it's regular marking on the right, it's almost always a hard jerk to re-center.
  • In stop and go traffic, the car brakes late and hard. I've had to force myself to trust it and in general I do now but it's still very harsh in stop and go traffic.
Despite the above issues, I continue to use AP and just live with the annoyances since overall, it does make long interstate droning less tiresome. Still, I personally feel Tesla needs to make some serious improvements to the Auto Pilot AI if their "Full Self Driving" has any chance of being useful.

The biggest improvement needs to come in the AI's ability to anticipate traffic. As a human, I've learned to not only "read" the vehicle directly in front of me, but also the vehicles 2-3 ahead of that one to anticipate what traffic's going to do. Auto-Pilot obviously only reads the vehicle immediately in front. I will still never completely trust auto pilot but I will continue to use it to make long trips less tiresome but with my hands on the wheel and scanning the road constantly.
 

Fourdoor

Active Member
May 31, 2016
1,123
1,029
United States
Ahhhhhh...... So your definition of phantom braking is regen. Now I get it why so many anonymous nicks like you are complaining that it happens all the time.

Here's another reviewer with video. He mentions random slow-downs, but not "braking". These are probably due to outdated map data, but who knows.


Protip: You can keep your foot lightly on the gas pedal, just like holding the steering wheel so you don't get the AP nag. You're welcome!

Here is a statement for you to fill in:

"Tesla vehicles like virtually all other EV's come from the factory with regenerative (blank) "

Now, fill in the blank. If you get it right, you will know why we call it "phantom braking", if you get it wrong I will loss all hope for humanity.

Keith <---- still not a nick, still not willing to give DOX fuel to a fanboy.
 
Last edited:

avs007

Member
May 14, 2021
527
381
PacNW
One thing I noticed on my drive into work this morning.... Earlier I had enabled the speed limit warning chime for 10 over the limit... I noticed in a nice flat area of the freeway, it started yelling at me for driving too fast... I looked at the display, and saw that the car thought the speed limit was TWENTY-FIVE, even tho it was 60. I know it was impossible for it to see any speed limit signs, becuase there is an airport runway on one side of the freeway, and a tall berm with train tracks on the other side of the freeway....

I was thinking that if I had autopilot engaged, it probably would've slammed on the brakes when it thought the speed limit dropped to 25?
 
I hate how people judge how others handle autopilot instead of realizing that each car is different. I just received my 21 MYLR and have the same experience as the OP. My first road trip, i probably had 40 braking issues in a variety of road types, day/night, shadows, etc.

Just be careful when you are calling it out as an owner issue.

I don't understand how Tesla isn't addressing this more.
 
Ahhhhhh...... So your definition of phantom braking is regen. Now I get it why so many anonymous nicks like you are complaining that it happens all the time.

Here's another reviewer with video. He mentions random slow-downs, but not "braking". These are probably due to outdated map data, but who knows.


Protip: You can keep your foot lightly on the gas pedal, just like holding the steering wheel so you don't get the AP nag. You're welcome!
Don't be an ass. It's a real issue.
 
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Fourdoor

Active Member
May 31, 2016
1,123
1,029
United States
One thing I noticed on my drive into work this morning.... Earlier I had enabled the speed limit warning chime for 10 over the limit... I noticed in a nice flat area of the freeway, it started yelling at me for driving too fast... I looked at the display, and saw that the car thought the speed limit was TWENTY-FIVE, even tho it was 60. I know it was impossible for it to see any speed limit signs, becuase there is an airport runway on one side of the freeway, and a tall berm with train tracks on the other side of the freeway....

I was thinking that if I had autopilot engaged, it probably would've slammed on the brakes when it thought the speed limit dropped to 25?

It depends. Does the car consider the road you were on part of a divided highway? If so, it will let you speed all you like, it will just yell at you. If you are on anything it doesn't consider "limited access" it limits you to 5 mph over the speed limit, and would have slowed you down to 30 mph. I would be fairly aggressive at slowing you down, but not full on panic stop.

Keith
 
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Fourdoor

Active Member
May 31, 2016
1,123
1,029
United States
I hate how people judge how others handle autopilot instead of realizing that each car is different. I just received my 21 MYLR and have the same experience as the OP. My first road trip, i probably had 40 braking issues in a variety of road types, day/night, shadows, etc.

Just be careful when you are calling it out as an owner issue.

I don't understand how Tesla isn't addressing this more.

It is 100% a software issue, and not only is Tesla addressing it, they are causing it.

Since TACC is BETA they can experiment as much as they like on how it operates trying to get it right. They seem to be trying to get the vision only cars to look further down the road with the front camera since they don't have radar to look far down the road... the problem with this is that the further down the road you look the more likely you are to think the oncoming vehicle is in your lane rather than being in the oncoming lane... this is even worse at night when you can't see the road lines far down the road, but you CAN see the oncoming headlights far down the road.

Think about it, when you are driving manually (no driver aids) at night and there is traffic coming the other way, you just see the headlights... you can't tell if it is a normal person driving in their own lane, or a drunk driver in YOUR lane until you are almost face to face with them... so you ignore the oncoming lights until they get much closer. Right now Tesla is trying to find the balance point between NOT ignoring oncoming lights (treating all of them like a life threatening event) and ignoring them too much and having the 1 in a million drunk driver hit you head on without intervention. Obviously they don't want you hurt in a head on collision with someone in your lane, so they start out super cautious and react to everything as a threat. This makes the system virtually un-usable and those of us with that software suffer, bitch, moan, complain and get told we are spreading FUD by people who are NOT on the same software version we are stuck with.

The problem is, they took a over two months from the release of 2021.4.21.3 before they finally come out with an update that mitigated some of the problems. The newest updates (I am on 2021.32.21 now) are not as good as the software I had from the factory, but not nearly as bad as 2021.4.21.3

Later,

Keith
 

Fourdoor

Active Member
May 31, 2016
1,123
1,029
United States
There are probably thousands of hours of people driving Teslas on YouTube. Its really surprising that no one has come up with a Tesla phantom braking best hits. Just vague reports of "it happens all the time" followed by "no I won't provide evidence" by anonymous nicks.

Provide you full name, address, phone number, and e-mail address or stop complaining about "anonymous nicks".

Keith
 
I've been driving my Model Y (June 2021 build) for roughly seven weeks now and I'm finding the auto pilot nearly unusable. The braking is so overly aggressive that it basically catapults me forward constantly. It will go from 65 down to 40 suddenly and simply does not ease into braking whatsoever while driving on the freeway. It's an uncomfortable driving experience and it's dangerous for possible rear end accidents. I've tried switching the trailing distance of the cars in front of me from two car lengths all the way up to seven and it drives no differently. I had a Model 3 for about 3 years, that had EAP, and the auto pilot was NEVER this bad. Is this due to the switch from radar to Tesla Vision? Might this be fixed with a future software update, or is this just how it is? I'm curious to hear how others have found the autopilot on recent builds with Tesla Vision.
I agree. I just posted on another thread about 3 experiences that I've had in the past 2 days. One I got no warning when a deer jumped in front of my car. The second when it braked from 65 to 40 with nothing on the road. And third when it applied corrective steering when it couldn't find the lane markers
 
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There are probably thousands of hours of people driving Teslas on YouTube. Its really surprising that no one has come up with a Tesla phantom braking best hits. Just vague reports of "it happens all the time" followed by "no I won't provide evidence" by anonymous nicks.
One reason is the video is so bad that using the viewer it's hard to show how bad it is.
 
I have a November 2020 Model Y Performance (SW: 2021.24.11) and while I love the car and have zero regrets about buying it, I've taken it on 4 1000+ mile road trips so far and on my car, the auto pilot needs improvement. My issues are the same as others have posted:
  • Phantom braking. Usually happens when passing a tractor trailer. The car will brake extremely hard due to the slightest movement of the big rig. Far too cautious IMHO. Phantom braking also happens when negotiating some curves. It seems like taking a tight curve at high speeds is the most common trigger in this scenario. Finally, sometimes the car phantom brakes on a clear day (daytime, not night) with no other vehicles in front or beside me.
  • Very slow to resume the set speed after it slows down for traffic. This is most noticeable when coming up behind slow traffic in the right lane, I move to the left and it takes too long to resume my set speed (again IMHO).
  • The default behavior of trying to keep the car centered in what it thinks is the lane leads to some jerky driving. This is most evident when in the right lane and you pass an on-ramp. Due to the lane marking to the right disappearing for a bit, the car thinks the lane has suddenly widened and centers itself. Then when the lane resumes it's regular marking on the right, it's almost always a hard jerk to re-center.
  • In stop and go traffic, the car brakes late and hard. I've had to force myself to trust it and in general I do now but it's still very harsh in stop and go traffic.
Despite the above issues, I continue to use AP and just live with the annoyances since overall, it does make long interstate droning less tiresome. Still, I personally feel Tesla needs to make some serious improvements to the Auto Pilot AI if their "Full Self Driving" has any chance of being useful.

The biggest improvement needs to come in the AI's ability to anticipate traffic. As a human, I've learned to not only "read" the vehicle directly in front of me, but also the vehicles 2-3 ahead of that one to anticipate what traffic's going to do. Auto-Pilot obviously only reads the vehicle immediately in front. I will still never completely trust auto pilot but I will continue to use it to make long trips less tiresome but with my hands on the wheel and scanning the road constantly.
^This.

I recently did a trip from Houston to Indianapolis. I had multiple Phantom braking events and one event almost caused a rear ending incident. I was very careful after that and I started disengaging AP from time to time when I felt it is not safe.

I had a Subaru Crosstrek which had the adapative cruise control feature called Eyesight. Subaru also uses only cameras and in that, two camera only mounted just like the front cameras are in Tesla Model Y/3, I never experienced any issues in that.

It just baffles me how come Tesla with all the additional sensors can not figure out the damn phantom braking. But, I dont regret buying a Tesla and I will for sure continue to buy them but I made my decision that I am NOT going to buy FSD ever, I am convinced that FSD is NOT going to happen any time soon. Even if they release FSD to the general public with out the beta tag, it will be a half ass product just like the AP is right now. IMHO, FSD is $2000 option at best right now.
 

avs007

Member
May 14, 2021
527
381
PacNW
I had a Subaru Crosstrek which had the adapative cruise control feature called Eyesight. Subaru also uses only cameras and in that, two camera only mounted just like the front cameras are in Tesla Model Y/3, I never experienced any issues in that.

It just baffles me how come Tesla with all the additional sensors can not figure out the damn phantom braking.
This problem is not unique to Tesla... Even Subaru's EyeSight has reported issues with phantom braking. It's not a simple problem with a simple solution. Each situation is different. I posted a video of an IIHS test earlier where Hyundai's system completely failed to detect a pedestrian in front of the car, and the car ran right over the test subject like it was a speed bump.
 
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^This.

I recently did a trip from Houston to Indianapolis. I had multiple Phantom braking events and one event almost caused a rear ending incident. I was very careful after that and I started disengaging AP from time to time when I felt it is not safe.

I had a Subaru Crosstrek which had the adapative cruise control feature called Eyesight. Subaru also uses only cameras and in that, two camera only mounted just like the front cameras are in Tesla Model Y/3, I never experienced any issues in that.

It just baffles me how come Tesla with all the additional sensors can not figure out the damn phantom braking. But, I dont regret buying a Tesla and I will for sure continue to buy them but I made my decision that I am NOT going to buy FSD ever, I am convinced that FSD is NOT going to happen any time soon. Even if they release FSD to the general public with out the beta tag, it will be a half ass product just like the AP is right now. IMHO, FSD is $2000 option at best right now.
I agree CC on my outback w/eyesight has never given me problems.

Are you saying they will pay us $2000 to use FSD? 😊 I'll need more.

They should scrap FSD and fix the braking, cc, and lane correction first
 
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thesmokingman

Member
Jun 21, 2021
859
1,737
Socal
^This.

I recently did a trip from Houston to Indianapolis. I had multiple Phantom braking events and one event almost caused a rear ending incident. I was very careful after that and I started disengaging AP from time to time when I felt it is not safe.

I had a Subaru Crosstrek which had the adapative cruise control feature called Eyesight. Subaru also uses only cameras and in that, two camera only mounted just like the front cameras are in Tesla Model Y/3, I never experienced any issues in that.

It just baffles me how come Tesla with all the additional sensors can not figure out the damn phantom braking. But, I dont regret buying a Tesla and I will for sure continue to buy them but I made my decision that I am NOT going to buy FSD ever, I am convinced that FSD is NOT going to happen any time soon. Even if they release FSD to the general public with out the beta tag, it will be a half ass product just like the AP is right now. IMHO, FSD is $2000 option at best right now.
Wrong. Subarus have plenty of phantom braking issues as well. And for the record anytime you have auto braking you will have incidents of phantom braking. The tech is obviously still evolving. And phantom braking on Subies can be crushing as it can literally stop the car on the highway w/o warning, smh. Subaru has two major class suits out, one for phantom braking and the other for get this, sudden acceleration.



Happens to a lot of cars, yall are just very very vocal about it.

 

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