Model Y Supercharger V3 kW Speeds in Cold weather

[Tyler34]

How much time was the drive to the Supercharger?

Did you precondition prior to driving?

The battery pack is 1,000 lbs of mass. It takes a lot of energy (and time) to get it up to the temperature required for full speed charging (at least 35°C).

In my experience, just navigating to the Supercharger doesn’t condition for long enough to get it up to full speed. I can usually only get 200+ kW on my second charge of a trip after the battery is already good and warm.

So 83 kW at 31% at 47F doesn’t seem totally unreasonable to me, particularly if you only conditioned on the way there without prior driving or preconditioning.

About 75minutes of 80mph interstate driving on the way there and 10-15min of preconditioning before I left home. The screen only displayed the preconditioning for supercharger alert for the last 10min or so of the drive.

 

[pt19713]

About 75minutes of 80mph interstate driving on the way there and 10-15min of preconditioning before I left home. The screen only displayed the preconditioning for supercharger alert for the last 10min or so of the drive.

Depending on the ambient temp, the pre-conditioning will raise the battery packs by roughly 7-10F, less if it's below 40F.
Driving also does very little to warm the packs. I've tested with Scan My Tesla pack at 55 mph and 30 minutes of driving increases the temp by roughly 12F (tested with ambient at 47F).

As previous people have mentioned, you would have to precondition for well over 45-60minutes to get battery packs close to optimal charging temps, longer if it's colder. I've done preconditioning for 30 minutes to see temps only rise 22F. This is fine if the ambient is around 55F, but at 20F, it barely makes a difference.

 

[Tyler34]

Depending on the ambient temp, the pre-conditioning will raise the battery packs by roughly 7-10F, less if it's below 40F.
Driving also does very little to warm the packs. I've tested with Scan My Tesla pack at 55 mph and 30 minutes of driving increases the temp by roughly 12F (tested with ambient at 47F).

As previous people have mentioned, you would have to precondition for well over 45-60minutes to get battery packs close to optimal charging temps, longer if it's colder. I've done preconditioning for 30 minutes to see temps only rise 22F. This is fine if the ambient is around 55F, but at 20F, it barely makes a difference.

So how do I make it precondition longer while driving? Also in my first post I stated it was 47f outside, hardly something I would consider "cold"

 

[Zoomit]

So how do I make it precondition longer while driving? Also in my first post I stated it was 47f outside, hardly something I would consider "cold"

47F is very cold for a low Cobalt Li-ion battery charging above 1C. To charge above 3C (near 250 kW), the battery needs to be above 100 F (40C). Heating the 1000 lb battery by 50F is not trivial and basically doesn’t happen with any reasonable combination of preconditioning and driving style short of aggressive track driving.

Other than selecting a Supercharger as a destination, there’s no way to manually initiate On Route Battery Warmup.

 

[silverstoned83]

So how do I make it precondition longer while driving? Also in my first post I stated it was 47f outside, hardly something I would consider "cold"

The key is preconditioning at home for up to an hour, if not longer. If you begin your trip without preconditioning, you will always have less than optimum battery temps upon arrival at the supercharger.

While 47F isn’t cold to you or me, it is around 50 degrees colder than where the battery wants to be when attempting to receive a 3C charge rate (250 kW).

In terms of charge rate, 3C is extremely fast, and I think a lot of people don’t appreciate what it takes to make this possible, let alone fully understand what these numbers mean and their magnitude.

 

[silverstoned83]

47F is very cold for a low Cobalt Li-ion battery charging above 1C. To charge above 3C (near 250 kW), the battery needs to be above 100 F (40C). Heating the 1000 lb battery by 50F is not trivial and basically doesn’t happen with any reasonable combination of preconditioning and driving style short of aggressive track driving. Other than selecting a Supercharger as a destination, there’s no way to manually initiate On Route Battery Warmup.

Haha, you beat me to it..

 

[Zoomit]

In terms of charge rate, 3C is extremely fast, and I think a lot of people don’t appreciate what it takes to make this possible, let alone fully understand what these numbers mean and their magnitude.

Indeed, worth repeating! 3C should not be trivialized. That’s a very impressive charge rate for a battery that we want to last over 1000 cycles. I wish the battery was more robust a low temperatures, but then again my other EV maxes out at 1C under ideal conditions.

My first V3 charge session went poorly. I was hyping the 250 kW capability to my wife as we were behind schedule on our trip. It was about 45F out and I only got 58 kW at 15% SOC. The battery was cold. My saving grace was that 58 kW was still faster than our Bolt EV could ever charge.

 

[pt19713]

Yeah, just wait until summer and you get a taste of the 250 kW juice. It really spoils you.

 

[Tyler34]

I thought I was rather informed on Tesla things but you learn something everyday. Considering getting an odb connector and scan my Tesla after this experience and watching Bjorn's latest video.

 

[Big Earl]

The key is preconditioning at home for up to an hour, if not longer. If you begin your trip without preconditioning, you will always have less than optimum battery temps upon arrival at the supercharger.

While 47F isn’t cold to you or me, it is around 50 degrees colder than where the battery wants to be when attempting to receive a 3C charge rate (250 kW).

In terms of charge rate, 3C is extremely fast, and I think a lot of people don’t appreciate what it takes to make this possible, let alone fully understand what these numbers mean and their magnitude.

I’ll just note that preconditioning for an hour won’t do any more than preconditioning for 30 minutes. The battery warmup routine stops after about 20 minutes (depending on temperature, of course). Everything else is spot on.

 

[Rocky_H]

You all are trying to achieve something that is impossible. Didn't this jump out to anyone?

I also noted what he said regarding how the arrival SoC will affect preconditioning. If it estimates the SoC to be below 20% upon arrival, it will not precondition the battery. This definitely played a part during my test, but it did get maybe 25 min of preconditioning before it stopped.

This is the no-win scenario. The fastest, highest power Supercharging only happens in a small window at a very low state of charge. But as you are driving to the Supercharger, it will not keep that battery preheating going all the way down to 4% or whatever when you arrive to have it in both conditions of: 1) very hot and 2) very low state of charge.
So you can't get both in the winter, and that's just how it is, and some of you will have to settle for the reality that things just aren't always as perfect as you want them to be.

Electric cars still work fine in the winter--just with some partial limiting on recharging speeds and regeneration. It is what it is.

 

[Zoomit]

If it estimates the SoC to be below 20% upon arrival, it will not precondition the battery.

I've heard this previously, but have never seen any hard evidence that supports this. Do you have a source or more background verifying that in fact this is how it functions?

 

[Big Earl]

I've heard this previously, but have never seen any hard evidence that supports this. Do you have a source or more background verifying that in fact this is how it functions?

I’ll see if I can test this over the next few days.

 

[Big Earl]

I’ll see if I can test this over the next few days.

Confirmed - no on-route battery warmup when SOC is below 20%. I’ve been driving all day, ran it down to 21%, navigated to the local supercharger with a projected arrival of 14% and never got the preconditioning message. Max speed at two different 150 kW Superchargers was about 100 kW. It immediately started conditioning the batteries when I plugged in (no message - just the sound).

 

[snord]

Is there a FAQ or concise list of charging behaviors to learn?

Also can that list be 'stickied' at the top of the forum?

As an example, I will list below what I have learned from this thread. If anything is inaccurate or needs editing, please let me know:

-Max supercharging rates do not occur unless the battery is at 40-50C.
-On-route battery warmup:
*does not activate if SoC < 20%
*is not as effective as preconditioning before starting a trip
*requires setting the SC as a destination and navigating to it

 

[Big Earl]

Is there a FAQ or concise list of charging behaviors to learn?

Also can that list be 'stickied' at the top of the forum?

As an example, I will list below what I have learned from this thread. If anything is inaccurate or needs editing, please let me know:

-Max supercharging rates do not occur unless the battery is at 40-50C.
-On-route battery warmup:
*does not activate if SoC < 20%
*is not as effective as preconditioning before starting a trip
*requires setting the SC as a destination and navigating to it

For the second to last point, it isn’t that preconditioning is more effective - it’s a good tool to augment on-route battery warm-up when navigating to a supercharger. ORBW by itself is not enough to get high charging speeds if you’re starting off relatively cold, and preconditioning can give you more of a head start.

Your best bet is to avoid supercharging when cold. If you’re staying at a hotel overnight, charge before going to sleep rather than waking up in the morning. If you rely on your local supercharger for most of your charging needs, plan on having something to do while you charge.

 

[coconutboy84]

Coming from a model 3, I have definelty noticed a big diff in supercharging and also regular charging from home as well as limited regen. The model y is much much worse.

 

[pt19713]

I watched a Bjorn video earlier and it shows the 2021 Model 3 pre-conditioning under 20% in colder temps.

 

[Jamezam]

Question: What is the temperature considered as battery impacting cold temperatures? That is, at what temperature should we precondition the battery in cold weather. Yes, there are tips on Tesla's support pages, however, I haven't been able to nail down the temperature. Also, Tesla states a snowflake may appear on your touchscreen, does the snowflake show up in the app? If not, it would be helpful to predict when to precondition your battery based on knowing a specific temperature to look out for. Thanks in advance...

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Question: What is the temperature considered as battery impacting cold temperatures? That is, at what temperature should we precondition the battery in cold weather. Yes, there are tips on Tesla's support pages, however, I haven't been able to nail down the temperature. Also, Tesla states a snowflake may appear on your touchscreen, does the snowflake show up in the app? If not, it would be helpful to predict when to precondition your battery based on knowing a specific temperature to look out for. Thanks in advance...

Yes, the snowflake shows up in the app as well.