More charging stations or better range Tesla?

[JetFalcon]

I just saw an article online that there is a 400 mile Tesla Model S coming along. And with the Roadster doing 600 miles per charge, will that have a benefit for normal consumer Teslas? So if Tesla succeeds in longer range, will they do less focus on charging stations?

What is cheaper / more efficient in the long run? Adding more charging stations or increasing range in newer cars?

Increase range may have benefits like less lines at the current Supercharging stations that get busy during rush hour. So less competition for charging. Whenever I go to the shopping mall with free charging, its almost always taken. But I don't bother with it since I never had a problem with range, at least for local driving, I never felt like I was under pressure to go outta my way for public charging. The only times I may need to supercharge are round trips from OC to Santa Barbara or OC to San Diego. But OC to LA the Model 3 can easily do it round trip and I may end at 20-30% charge, even at 90% full charge.

I am wondering, if we lived in a perfect world where every Tesla owner could charge at home / apt, would there be less need for them to supercharge? Like if only far distance drivers could use it, would it still be packed or would there be more available stations?

 

[CertLive]

Yes better range. If the battery chemistry keeps improving and you can give everyone above the average no stop driving trip due to required sleep. What is that... 500 miles? Then superchargers would be used a lot less. Run a camp off it for the week etc.

 

[JetFalcon]

Yes better range. If the battery chemistry keeps improving and you can give everyone above the average no stop driving trip due to required sleep. What is that... 500 miles? Then superchargers would be used a lot less. Run a camp off it for the week etc.

Does that mean EV / Teslas could outdo gas cars? So what is the challenge for more range, a more efficient motor or battery packs that store more charge? For batteries, can they be improved to store more energy per space given?

For gas cars, seems its two variables: bigger gas tank or more efficient engine. I guess its gas tank to battery, and gas engine to EV motor. And it seems gas cars can't improve the gas tank since the only option is making it bigger, so the only thing gas cars can do is improve the engine, but not its fuel source. If EVs could improve both sources (battery & motor), will that make it possible for them to maybe do 1000 miles per charge and outdo gas cars?

Seems gas cars are still beating most EVs on longest driving range. Most of them around 700 miles. But then gas cars can't fill up at home, you will still have to stop at a gas station eventually.

https://www.cars.com/articles/top-10-vehicles-with-the-longest-driving-range-1420698377103/

 

[TydalForce]

Honestly, both.
Gas stations exist in every town every couple of miles. It's easy to find a place to fuel up. Charging stations aren't quite so ubiquitous yet. There's definitely a need for more of them, as EV ownership increases.
Meanwhile, battery tech is going to get better - such is the nature of technology. Increased capacity = increased range = less range anxiety, especially for people who have never considered an EV before.
"How far can I go on a full charge?" "How do I charge while traveling?" "What if...?" This forum is full of these questions, and we're all relatively in-the-know.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

It’s going to be very easy for public charging infrastructure to get overwhelmed by the number of EV’s sold. It’s borderline now but we’ll see how that goes over the next 5-10 years.

I wouldn’t buy an EV if I couldn’t charge at home on 220V. Fortunately I can.

 

[jsmay311]

I worry about how these “super long range” BEVs would be worse for the environment, both due to decreased driving efficiency from the extra weight of the batteries and also due to increased carbon footprint of the battery manufacturing.

For people with somewhere to charge at home/work, it seems like a wasteful tradeoff (unless you do a LOT of cross country driving, like for your job or something).

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Elon said he wants people to buy the Standard Range to help with the potential shortage of batteries and to be less wasteful.

I could definitely get by with the SR, and sometimes wish I had stuck with that order.

But if he really wants people to get “right sized” battery packs, he has to quit taking away other features, like full premium interior, that have nothing to do with range but push some people to upgrade just to get those features.

 

[jkdman123]

 

[eevee-fan]

I worry about how these “super long range” BEVs would be worse for the environment, both due to decreased driving efficiency from the extra weight of the batteries and also due to increased carbon footprint of the battery manufacturing.

For people with somewhere to charge at home/work, it seems like a wasteful tradeoff (unless you do a LOT of cross country driving, like for your job or something).

But you know wasteful is what people will do. Why are people buying huge trucks and SUVs that they are having a hard time parking in the city?

 

[eevee-fan]

Elon said he wants people to buy the Standard Range to help with the potential shortage of batteries and to be less wasteful.

I could definitely get by with the SR, and sometimes wish I had stuck with that order.

But if he really wants people to get “right sized” battery packs, he has to quit taking away other features, like full premium interior, that have nothing to do with range but push some people to upgrade just to get those features.

This makes sense for those who rarely take long trips. SR is more than capable for cross country drives due to availability of SC at the right distances... something that EA is working on.

 

[JBHemlock]

I don't think longer range EVs are going to result in less of a focus on charging stations. Superchargers, especially, have always been one of the big advantages of owning a Tesla, and as the number of Teslas on the road increases, there will need to be an increase in the number of superchargers, no matter the range of the cars.

 

[Big Dog]

Both. With thousands of new cars to be sold, Tesla SC's will only become more crowded.

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

More charging stations are absolutely required, coverage right now is only good in heavily populated areas. And if you want to do towing, drive at very high speed, very cold weather, or all 3 at the same time, range isn’t very good at the moment. So a mix of both is required for widespread adoption. Driving long distances in cold weather is still a bit of a challenge in lots of areas.

I get somewhere around 60-80 miles of mixed use out of my car using it normally, combined over short trips and a fair bit of preheating. That’s a rather stark departure from the advertised 310, and I don’t think most consumers would be very tolerant of this at this time.

 

[ewoodrick]

Longer range is a result of battery anxiety. How often when getting ICE vehicles did tank capacity/range become a issue?
Very few cars are driven on longer trips. In many families, there's the commuter and then the family car. It's the family car that does the travelling. Most commuters do well below 100 miles per day.

If you charge at home, then the commuter doesn't need much over 150-200 mile range to be more than enough.
And in general, the non-commuter cars uses far less than that.
But the non-commuter takes the family vacations and trips. Many are still less than 100 miles one way, a very few much longer than that.
(Sure, there are some of you who do take longer trips, but you are in the minority)

Even when taking a 500 mile trip, the difference in the number of stops needed for the MR to LR is very minimal, maybe none, maybe 1.

So, once you get over range anxiety, you start to realize that bigger battery means higher priced vehicle. And that's not more luxury, just longer range.

 

[JetFalcon]

Both. With thousands of new cars to be sold, Tesla SC's will only become more crowded.

I'm wondering if the Tesla owners with free supercharging would opt to use supercharging over charging at home just b/c its free. I feel free supercharging is kind of a disservice to Tesla drivers who really need to use Supercharging because we have to account for the freeloaders taking up limited supercharging.

Maybe free supercharging during off peak times, but some free credits to use during peak times? Like if the freeloaders want their free supercharging, make them charge off peak times. And limit peak times to those who really need it, like on a road trip.

I will use free charging at a shopping center if I see it and nobody wants it. But I won't wait around for it if its not there. But almost all the time, those free shopping center ones are always taken, so not worth my time to use it as I always have enough range to make it back on normal commute.

The only time I had to really go outta my way for Supercharging was going from OC to Santa Barbara, but those trips are rare.

Maybe one of my longest non charging round trips I've done was OC to Calabasas, when I crashed Jake Paul's house party.

 

[jerry33]

I'm wondering if the Tesla owners with free supercharging would opt to use supercharging over charging at home just b/c its free. I feel free supercharging is kind of a disservice to Tesla drivers who really need to use Supercharging because we have to account for the freeloaders taking up limited supercharging.

Going to an SC is more inconvenient than charging at home, sure there will be a few, but not many. For the thread subject question, both more range and more SCs are needed. More range because most ICE car drivers want to see 500 miles or higher before they will even consider an EV. More stations because there's a real shortage of SCs in the prairie states. There will be enough SCs when you can drive the state highways as well as the interstates.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I'm wondering if the Tesla owners with free supercharging would opt to use supercharging over charging at home just b/c its free. I feel free supercharging is kind of a disservice to Tesla drivers who really need to use Supercharging because we have to account for the freeloaders taking up limited supercharging.

Maybe free supercharging during off peak times, but some free credits to use during peak times? Like if the freeloaders want their free supercharging, make them charge off peak times. And limit peak times to those who really need it, like on a road trip.

I will use free charging at a shopping center if I see it and nobody wants it. But I won't wait around for it if its not there. But almost all the time, those free shopping center ones are always taken, so not worth my time to use it as I always have enough range to make it back on normal commute.

The only time I had to really go outta my way for Supercharging was going from OC to Santa Barbara, but those trips are rare.

Maybe one of my longest non charging round trips I've done was OC to Calabasas, when I crashed Jake Paul's house party.

Lol, freeloaders??

Dude, they paid Tesla twice the price of your car. Supercharging isn’t free for them, they prepaid for it with the cost built into the price of their cars. If they don’t use superchargers, they are losing out on value they paid for. If anything, they should get priority access.

 

[eevee-fan]

I'm wondering if the Tesla owners with free supercharging would opt to use supercharging over charging at home just b/c its free. I feel free supercharging is kind of a disservice to Tesla drivers who really need to use Supercharging because we have to account for the freeloaders taking up limited supercharging.

Maybe free supercharging during off peak times, but some free credits to use during peak times? Like if the freeloaders want their free supercharging, make them charge off peak times. And limit peak times to those who really need it, like on a road trip.

I will use free charging at a shopping center if I see it and nobody wants it. But I won't wait around for it if its not there. But almost all the time, those free shopping center ones are always taken, so not worth my time to use it as I always have enough range to make it back on normal commute.

The only time I had to really go outta my way for Supercharging was going from OC to Santa Barbara, but those trips are rare.

Maybe one of my longest non charging round trips I've done was OC to Calabasas, when I crashed Jake Paul's house party.

I guess you would consider people who have health insurance and go for the annual flu shot as freeloaders?

How about people with unlimited call/text/data plans on their cell phones? Are they freeloaders too?

 

[rdskill]

Batteries don't like fast discharge, overcharging or fast charging. They don't mind steady discharge like when you are cruising down the road. You will probably get longer battery life by charging at home/work and just using a SC when on trips. Hopefully charging no more than 80% to reach your next destination/SC.

Hybrid batteries (super capacitor + battery) are coming. capacitors love abuse. Like 0 to 60 test from every stop you make. They will handle the acceleration and recharge very quickly from regen thereby saving your battery life.

 

[JetFalcon]

Lol, freeloaders??

Dude, they paid Tesla twice the price of your car. Supercharging isn’t free for them, they prepaid for it with the cost built into the price of their cars. If they don’t use superchargers, they are losing out on value they paid for. If anything, they should get priority access.

I guess you have a point of the Model X / Model S buyers. They are the ones that helped make Model 3 possible to allow a lower price point.