The part that's 71ish mm in diameter, transitioning to 64.1mm diameter.
Try going back a couple of pages. He's bent one like that already.
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Mounted wrong size wheels - they’re now permanently stuck to the car. Disaster [resolved]
- Thread starter martyb126
- Start date
Stew-2
Member
Not sure if this has been mentioned: Both sides of an end off the ground at the same time, for example both fronts or both rears. A bottle jack on its side, the bottom against the inside edge of one wheel, a 2x4 to span the distance over to the other inside edge and jack the wheels apart.
Agreed. I'm far from an engineer, but the only thing I could imagine is that the lip on the P hub is significantly stronger than the aluminum wheel, so wheel I applied 129 ft/lb of torque on the lugs, since the wheels didn't have the small alteration to the bore to account for the lip, it deformed the aluminum and created some for of friction seal. What I really don't understand is I have 2mm of wiggle which, I believe should clear that small lip which looks to be about ~1mm. It also appears that the wheels have been sitting flush to the hub hat, so this kind of supports the theory that the lip deformed the wheels. Someone else pointed out it is possible that the wheels weren't sitting fully flush so there was significant force on the studs/bolts instead of the friction holding the weight of the car. If the studs are bent/damaged maybe they are anything contributing factor, but again, I'm still able to tighten all the lugs on the studs and get the wheel flush to the hub hat, so this kind of disproves the damaged stud theory.
Worth a shot, but I don't think I'll be able to fit all 3 claw arms into that hub center
Yup - have not tried this yet, but it has been recommended a couple of times. Definitely in the running for my next attempt.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
Did you try driving in circles? I can almost guarantee that the front outside wheel would come loose within a few circles.
Otherwise, the earlier suggestions to visit a body shop are good. They can easily rig up some sort of puller that will pull as hard as needed. They'd probably use something like this with some scrap metal behind the wheel to hook onto:
A puller is the safest method and doesn't risk damage to anything other than the wheel. Hammers and crowbars however are pretty hard on the bearings, brakes, steering rack, and other suspension components.
Otherwise, the earlier suggestions to visit a body shop are good. They can easily rig up some sort of puller that will pull as hard as needed. They'd probably use something like this with some scrap metal behind the wheel to hook onto:
A puller is the safest method and doesn't risk damage to anything other than the wheel. Hammers and crowbars however are pretty hard on the bearings, brakes, steering rack, and other suspension components.
This one works so forget the rest..you just end up ruining something at you car. I have had 2 customers from other workshops with same problem. One was with wrong size center bore as yours. Other was normal steel wheel. None of other mechanics could get the wheels unstuck with normal methods.
Method. Dont be afraid - its safe
Loosen all 20 wheelsnuts 3-4 turns. Go drive the car (40-60 mph) as you stole it with as many hard turns and aggressive driving. I mean really really thrash it or it wont work. Turn off radio and when your hear a distintive knack-sound - Find the wheel or wheels who has come loose and tighten wheelnuts some and drive again until all 4 are loose. It can take 8-10 km off driving and braking - as this has been done at ICE cars so warm brakes have helped a lot i guess. But my guarantee it´ll work. Regards Nick
Method. Dont be afraid - its safe
Loosen all 20 wheelsnuts 3-4 turns. Go drive the car (40-60 mph) as you stole it with as many hard turns and aggressive driving. I mean really really thrash it or it wont work. Turn off radio and when your hear a distintive knack-sound - Find the wheel or wheels who has come loose and tighten wheelnuts some and drive again until all 4 are loose. It can take 8-10 km off driving and braking - as this has been done at ICE cars so warm brakes have helped a lot i guess. But my guarantee it´ll work. Regards Nick
Yup, tried driving a bit, but haven't gone too crazy. This is another front-runner for next attempts. Even tried driving with the referenced gear puller engaged and it just bent the steel backing plate I was using to get a grip on the wheel....
Lol. I am an engineer and this baffles me. Something would have to mushroom in our out for this to occur, but I don't see a mechanism for it especially with such different material hardness.
Another possibility is that when the wheel was tightened onto the lip, it displaced it but left the tolerance between the wheel and hub very small. When the wheel is lifting off at an angle, it catches. Many tight fitting circular fits behave this way (brake caliper pistons are a common example). Lifting it straight off may help but will still likely require some force on this case. Easier said than done of course.
I would try a body shop. If they can handle wrecks and smashed in wheels they should be able to handle your situation.
drpheta
Member
This is probably the craziest thing I've seen happen, but didn't think would ever be possible. That little MP3 lip is a bastard already, but for that 6mm difference to cause 4 improperly bored wheels to get stuck just shows how careful we need to be with these things. I didn't think anyone could tighten wheels down that are too small to cover that lip as well, but here we are.
Why does this wheel manufacturer bother boring two different wheels instead of just making them universally compatible with a stepped lip in the first place? That's just stupid to have to deal with different manufacturing processes and inventory for one car. Could've just stocked the same wheel for all versions of the Model 3 and Y instead of dealing with the Performance being a different SKU.
Why does this wheel manufacturer bother boring two different wheels instead of just making them universally compatible with a stepped lip in the first place? That's just stupid to have to deal with different manufacturing processes and inventory for one car. Could've just stocked the same wheel for all versions of the Model 3 and Y instead of dealing with the Performance being a different SKU.
Having different part numbers when one could do both is not very Tesla of them, is it?
A week ago I thought "surely someone has done this before," but at this point, I'm pretty confident I am the only person to have done this. I think 1mm larger and they wouldn't fit. 1mm smaller and they wouldn't be stuck.
I wish the manufacturer made that decision.... The dealer gave me some attitude about the misleading information as the website literally states "DESIGNED FOR ALL TESLA MODEL 3 VARIANTS 18" in bold letters, but claims it is "VERY CLEAR there are 2 different variants..."
I guess we are all kind of fascinated by now… (sorry for your pain).
Are you saying there is a lip where the red arrow is partially down the hub which has fouled on the inside of the wheel? (PS this is just a generic Model 3 wheel hub photo).
I would still advocate trying to take the entire wheel assembly off if at all possible. When the wheel & hub is off the car any good machine shop will have presses and pullers which would separate them without pulling a car onto your head/foot.
Failing that my favourite (aside from my saw the wheel to bits then saw a slot where the red arrow is (but on the wheel) and prise the wheel apart slightly) is the bottle jack with a girder between each wheel. However that would load only the bottom of the wheel which may then just bend something instead of knocking it off.
As for driving around like a lunatic, I think a wheel would fall off then you would crash, and surely when it loosens if the advice is then to tighten the bolts you will simply end up back where you started, n’est pas?
Finally I think you have not yet found a crazy enough body shop yet, keep driving around and someone will take it as a personal challenge and sort it for you. Just don’t watch.
Are you saying there is a lip where the red arrow is partially down the hub which has fouled on the inside of the wheel? (PS this is just a generic Model 3 wheel hub photo).
I would still advocate trying to take the entire wheel assembly off if at all possible. When the wheel & hub is off the car any good machine shop will have presses and pullers which would separate them without pulling a car onto your head/foot.
Failing that my favourite (aside from my saw the wheel to bits then saw a slot where the red arrow is (but on the wheel) and prise the wheel apart slightly) is the bottle jack with a girder between each wheel. However that would load only the bottom of the wheel which may then just bend something instead of knocking it off.
As for driving around like a lunatic, I think a wheel would fall off then you would crash, and surely when it loosens if the advice is then to tighten the bolts you will simply end up back where you started, n’est pas?
Finally I think you have not yet found a crazy enough body shop yet, keep driving around and someone will take it as a personal challenge and sort it for you. Just don’t watch.
drpheta
Member
See this wiki. The rotor hat on the stock M3P rotors is thinner. As a result, about 3mm of hub lip are exposed and performance compatible wheels have the hub bore machined to accept the lip.
OP's wheels are made w/o that step, and thus have been squeezed onto the exposed (approximately) 70mm hub lip.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
You may be on to something @CKwik240. If Fast Wheels is dumb enough to make a Tesla wheel without the little counterbore, they might also be dumb enough to make the 64.1mm bore undersize. If the deeper portion of the bore went down to 63.9mm it'd be pretty easy to force the wheel on with lugnuts, but really hard to pull it back off, because as you said, it'd have to be pulled straight off, not wobbled like a normal stuck wheel.
I agree with what you’ve said. However, are we to assume the material hardness of the wheel vs hub deformed the wheel via /only/ 129ftlbs? That wheel is sitting pretty darn flush on that hub, many others that've had this problem were unable to get the wheel sitting flush.
I think we’ll have to reserve comments about the hub bore until a wheel comes off and either has no machined ‘step’ or is mushroomed and funked up.
^ this. and since my wheels are sitting flush to the hub hat (or at the very least more flush than 3mm), it proves the likely scenario that the wheel has deformed since the steel hub shouldn't have been deformed by the aluminum wheel. The assumption is that the deformation of the wheel happened in such a manner that brute force has not been able to overcome. OR there is some other component that we are all missing that is preventing movement.
I’d bet a cup of your finest water that the wheel bore is slightly undersized or a (powder/paint) coating applied to the wheel is causing it to hang up.OR there is some other component that we are all missing that is preventing movement.
I have tiny plastic (and aluminum) hub centric rings, very easy to double them up and you couldn’t crush one of them if you tried. In fact, I don’t mind taking the spare (suspension) corner pieces I have and assembling the; hub, spindle, brakes, as well as both of the wheels I’ve shown above to demonstrate this with a M18 fuel impact on mode 3 zippppping the lug nuts down.
You’ll get a wheel off, when it happens we can analyze the destruction to the hub bore/wheel bearing and know exactly what went down.
I have no other reference as to how hard wheels "should" be, but someone has mentioned that the fast wheels are quite soft. I can definitely support this as I have definitely dented the wheel in a bunch of different fun ways at this point and it doesn't seem to hold up very well against steel (e.g. pry bar, gear puller)
It may work, but the risk of damage or injury would not be worth it to me.This one works so forget the rest..you just end up ruining something at you car. I have had 2 customers from other workshops with same problem. One was with wrong size center bore as yours. Other was normal steel wheel. None of other mechanics could get the wheels unstuck with normal methods.
Method. Dont be afraid - its safe
Loosen all 20 wheelsnuts 3-4 turns. Go drive the car (40-60 mph) as you stole it with as many hard turns and aggressive driving. I mean really really thrash it or it wont work. Turn off radio and when your hear a distintive knack-sound - Find the wheel or wheels who has come loose and tighten wheelnuts some and drive again until all 4 are loose. It can take 8-10 km off driving and braking - as this has been done at ICE cars so warm brakes have helped a lot i guess. But my guarantee it´ll work. Regards Nick
