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My experience getting a dedicated EV TOU 2 electric meter with SDGE in San Diego

Discussion in 'California' started by earlyretirement, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. earlyretirement

    earlyretirement Model X 90D

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    I thought I’d take the time to post about my experience getting a second dedicated TOU (time of use) meter with SDGE in San Diego. I researched extensively online to try to get information about people that had gone through the process but I didn’t have much luck at all with anyone that had actually gone through the process.

    It seems like many people have switched over to the EV-TOU 2 rate, which uses your existing electric meter at your house, but I couldn’t find anyone that went through the process of getting the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] dedicated EV-TOU meter. You can find information about the differences here at this link below:

    http://www.sdge.com/clean-energy/ev-rates


    I have to say the process was extremely frustrating to go through. And the process took over a month from the time I started the process to the time I actually got the meter. I thought I’d outline my timeline of the process.

    August 2, 2013 - I filled out the online application on SDGE’s website at: https://ev.sdge.com/EVIS/faces/evratechangerequest.jsf I didn’t hear back from anyone for a while so I called in and finally I got someone to call me back on August 7. She indicated to fax in a form, which I did.

    August 7 – I faxed in the form that SDGE sent me to apply for the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] dedicated EV TOU 2 meter.

    August 12 – SDGE calls me back and tells me to find an electrician that can install the wiring/housing for the meter. SDGE explains that it will cost between $1,500 to $2,000 with an electrician to do the wiring and getting the permits, etc. They say they don’t actually charge anything for actually hooking up the EV TOU 2 meter.

    I actually had a really difficult time getting an electrician that wants to do this. I have a great electrician that does things around the house but it didn’t seem like he had any interest dealing with SDGE on the installation and permit process of going through this.

    I contacted Rob Guillory from Calray Electric (http://www.calrayelectric.com ) who was going to install my charger. I asked him if he would be willing to venture down this path with me. He told me that he hadn’t done any yet but he was really wonderful in willing to go through the process of it. (I was actually referred to Rob by David. G. The founder of the San Diego Tesla Group. David has been really great sharing valuable information and contacts.


    I waited for over a week for SDGE to contact me back to tell me that I was approved for him to install the housing for it. First they said they had to come out to the house to inspect my existing meter.

    August 16 – Nancy Amyot, a Service Planner with Sempra Utilities emailed me and told me she came by the house to inspect my meter and just needed to know the make/model of the car to get the final approval to get the permit for my electrician to install the housing and wiring for my meter.

    She was going on a 3-week vacation so I asked her if I could get the permit and schematics to start this project ASAP before she left on vacation. She was really SUPER and it was only after making contact with her did I make progress.

    The key to this process seems to be the “Service Planner” with SDGE so try to find out ASAP who the service planner will be for your project and only communicate with them.

    That same day on August 16, she emailed me a PDF with the schematics and drawing/design to give to my electrician where exactly he should install the meter.

    August 20 – Rob came out as scheduled to install the housing but he had a bit of bad news. One of the housing parts he needed to install the meter was out of stock so I had to wait until it came. Rob was great however and he said that he would install my HPWC ((high power wall charger) so that I could use my high-speed charger as my car just arrived.

    He said that he would come back out once the part came and re-connect the HPWC to the dedicated meter housing. I was VERY happy at least I could charge my car on the fast charger until the part came in.

    September 4 – Rob came out to install the housing so that SDGE could install their meter. The process involves the electrician installing the housing for the meter. Then that same day, the electrician arranges directly with the City of San Diego to come out and inspect it and pass it so that SDGE can inspect it. (# for City of San Diego inspections is 858-581-7111). I was told that the information is sent to SDGE electronically and they should have it within 24 hours.

    I called SDGE the next day and they still didn’t have the information so I got the # for the guy with the City that installed it and he helped me confirm that he sent it over to SDGE. (James Michael was the inspector and he was very friendly on the phone).

    September 6 (Friday) – SDGE was supposed to come out and install the EV TOU 2 meter. I was waiting around most of the day. They told me I didn’t have to be home but I still wanted to be home as I had a bad feeling about everything as the communication didn’t seem to clear.

    Plus my service planner, Nancy was on vacation and she left the # for an assistant but no one seemed too organized compared to her. It all left me feeling like there would be problems and there were.

    I had to run to go pick up my son from school and when I got back there was a tag from SDGE on my door that said, “You have a 100 Amp breaker installed for your EV meter and we require a 40A breaker for this circuit. Please contact your contractor/electrician”.

    Unbelievable! I call my electrician, Rob, who told me that obviously SDGE made a mistake as he just got done installing one of these meters for another Tesla customer in La Jolla. (Through it’s a small world, I connected via the Tesla Motors Club forum and meeting up with that owner this week for coffee). He also had a very frustrating experience dealing with SDGE and might want to chime in on his experiences.

    My electrician was really great and called me back late on Friday night trying to make a few phone calls helping me to solve things. To make matters worse, I had to go to a meeting in Chula Visa earlier that day and drove around quite a bit so I only had about 30 miles left on my car.

    It was the start of the weekend and I didn’t realize that the normal charger you plug in only charges at 4 miles per hour! My fast charger was charging at 60 miles per hour!

    I can’t tell you how great it was dealing with Rob at Calray Electric. He called me on Saturday morning and told me that he wanted to come by and at least hook up my HPWC back up to my main electric meter so I could charge at the 60 miles per hour recharge rate for the weekend until SDGE could figure this out. This went a long way to show me how wonderful and a true professional Rob is. He didn’t have to do this but it was clear that he really cared about me going through the weekend and not being able to fast charge.


    September 9 (Monday) I called Estela in the Service Planning department and told her about how frustrated I was and in the meantime my electrian though his own contacts got me the name and phone number of the executive over at SDGE that is in charge of the EV program. His name is Randy S. I called him and he was INCREDIBLE. He explained to me that there must be a breakdown in communication with the installers. He apologized and we got to chatting and he explained that he also owns a Tesla and really went the extra mile.

    He emailed me and sent me his personal cellphone number. He said if the installer had any problems to call him on his cellphone. Also, through it's a small world... I actually had met Randy from SDGE! We met at a San Diego Tesla Club meeting I went over at SDGE's Innovation Center back in July. Randy was one of the speakers and he was so friendly. So it was amazing that I had actually already met him.

    Well I get a call from Estela from the service-planning department and she tells me that the installer got lost and couldn’t find his way to the entrance of the development where I live. So he just left! I couldn’t believe it. I asked her to PLEASE send someone back TODAY and she said she would.

    Imagine my surprise when a few hours later there was an employee from SDGE that was there to install the meter. He was the same guy that came on Friday. Fortunately I was home! Because if not, he would have left again. My wife was leaving so she told me he was out there. I went out to talk to him and he said, “nothing is changed on the meter..it’s the same as Friday”. So it was clear to me that SDGE isn’t communicating from their main office to their installers in the field.

    I asked him to call Randy S. with whom I spoke to earlier in the morning. He called Randy and it went to his voicemail. He told me he wasn’t willing to install it unless he said some directive from an official above. He called his supervisor who was also clueless. I also had him call Estela with the Service Planning department and he said that really she wasn’t providing him with the technical information that he needed. He said that he could only install it if he spoke to Randy.

    I called Randy on my cellphone and THANK GOD he answered the phone! Randy spent about 15 minutes speaking to the SDGE installer and I could hear Randy convince him to install it. I had the proper permit from the City to get it installed but the installer just felt uncomfortable, as he didn’t get any paperwork on it he claimed.

    Well, he just left now and I see a second EV TOU 2 meter installed. Now I need Rob (electrician) to come back out tomorrow to reconnect my HPWC to the EV TOU meter 2 that is a dedicated meter only for my EV.

    All in all it was a frustrating process dealing with SDGE but it should be worth it. I spent $1,500 with Calray electric getting the housing installed and pulling the permits for the dedicated EV TOU 2 meter. But I figure that it will be worth it over the long haul as I’m confident I won’t sell this house and I might even get a Model X next year to replace my SUV. The off peak rate for the EV charger is 0.14 cents per Kilowatt hour and I pay almost triple that on my average electricity bill as I go into tier 3 and 4 much of the year.

    I suggest anyone going through this process, find out right away your Service Planner and really depend on them to guide you through the process. I’d also HIGHLY recommend Rob at Calray Electric who was really great and I wouldn’t have been able to have completed the process without him.

    He just texted me and said he will swing by tomorrow afternoon to hook up the HPWC to the dedicated meter.

    I’m LOVING the car and never stop getting wowed by the performance day in and day out. People constantly stop me asking me what kind of car it is. It was funny this morning. My wife and I went over to the beach in Del Mar this morning to go running on the beach.

    We came back to the car parked in the street and I had a towel in the frunk (front trunk). So I had it opened and we were on the curb brushing off the sand off our legs and shoes. A guy that lived in one of the nice houses in front thought we were having engine problems so he came up to us and asked us if we needed help.

    You should have seen the look in his eyes when he saw there was no engine or battery in the frunk. LOL! He asked what kind of car it was and was really blown away by it.

    I told him to go stop in the showroom at UTC Mall and check it out. He said he would.

    I hope this post helps those of you interested in getting the EV TOU 2 meter from SDGE.
     
  2. RandyS

    RandyS Fan of Elon

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    Thanks, earlyretirement...

    I'm glad that I was able to help you get the meter installed today. I spoke to the meter tech and his supervisor this afternoon, with more conversations scheduled for tomorrow...Again, I'm sorry about the confusion on our end. We've done many of these installations already, so I think it can be remedied with some additional internal discussions with the various parties and some educational effort on our part to get the word out to the meter and field folks...

    Thanks for your patience through this process. I really appreciate you working with us....Now it is time for you to enjoy that great car and the lower Time of Use electrical rates for charging...Maybe we can chat more tomorrow so I can learn more about what happened today, and that will help me with my communication and education efforts...

    For anyone else needing assistance with charging or other EV / SDG&E matters, please feel free to send me a PM on this board and then we can exchange telephone and contact information...

    Randy
     
  3. earlyretirement

    earlyretirement Model X 90D

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    Hi Randy!

    Thanks so much again! I can't tell you how much I appreciate all your help. You were really wonderful and went the extra mile for me.

    I did overhear the conversation with you and the tech that came out and he said that he has never seen this set up. He said he has only seen Volts and Leaf's and that he really wanted to see some paperwork on the process. So I think that would be great so future clients don't have to go through this. I really think it's a great program and I think it will be beneficial over the long haul as more and more people convert over to EV's.

    Absolutely, I'd be happy to chat with you more about it to improve the process. Without your help today, I really think I would have had another note that said, "sorry but we can't install it". I think it's really wonderful how you took an active interest in helping out an SDGE client. And I also think it's WONDERFUL that you can totally relate with us Model S customers since you are a fellow owner.

    You're right. It's an incredible car. It's so wonderful that I also had a chance to meet you over at the SDGE Innovation Center. I definitely owe you a lunch/coffee so hopefully we can chat more about our Model S's. Thanks so much again.
     
  4. Dwdnjck

    Dwdnjck Member

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    I do not understand the point of a separate meter for tou2 rates. How does the math work out? Without the separate meter you get better rates on the car and the house.
     
  5. earlyretirement

    earlyretirement Model X 90D

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    Randy is in a better position to answer this. I was actually going to email you separately Randy about this. But answering here would probably benefit many more people. It sounds like switching over to the EV TOU 2 rate is the smart call no matter if you get the dedicated meter or not. Yes?

    In our case it looked like much of the EV charging use would push up the rate to 4th tier charging. As well, we plan to switch over to another EV car next year. We would have switched over to the EV TOU 2 rate for the entire house if we didn't go with the dedicated meter but it sounded like I'd save more over the long haul just going with the dedicated charger and charging only after midnight to 5 AM.

    Randy, what makes more sense for Model S owners? I realize that it probably depends on use of electricity but what is your recommendation of the dedicated meter vs. the entire house TOU 2 rate?

    Some of the TOU 2 rates seemed higher than the standard rates. I know SDGE just had a rate increase so maybe that isn't the case anymore. I'd be curious to hear Randy's thoughts on this as well.

    Maybe I over estimated the true benefits and cost savings of the 2nd dedicated meter. But I also thought it would be super cool to see exactly on a separate meter how much exactly I'm spending in electricity solely for the EV. I've never owned an EV before so I thought I'd track everything with the car's data and also SDGE's data.
     
  6. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    The daytime rates are quite high with the TOU-EV plan ($0.27/kWh I think). If you don't use much during the day it's great, but if you have AC, work at home, etc., it can get expensive.

    If you add solar it's quite nice though, since you are credited the $0.27/kWh for any production over your use during peak time and charged $0.14/kWh when you charge at night.
     
  7. brianstorms

    brianstorms Member

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    #7 brianstorms, Sep 9, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
    I also recently went through an ordeal getting an EV-TOU secondary meter set up in my condo garage, along with a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed ~150ft away requiring conduit run between the meter and the outlet.

    A Timeline:

    May 2013 - As part of many months of research into getting a Model S, I realized that I would need power in the garage so I could charge the car. Fine, but I live in a condo with an underground garage shared by all owners. So I started doing research.

    May 17 - Based on a recommendation by @hometheatremaven here in San Diego, I contacted Rob at Calray Electric. We made an appointment for him to come by the following week to inspect the site.

    May 20 - Contacted SDGE, tried several people before somebody knew what I was talking about and who to talk to. Was told to call the Planning Dept. Called them, navigated their touch-tone menus and got to the "Metro Service Order Team". The recording then said they're all busy, so please leave a message --- but then just as I was thinking I was going to be able to leave a message, another recording said that the voicemail is full and I have to hang up!

    May 20 - Rob from Calray visits the site. He learns that half the homes in the complex have their own transformers and meters, and half pull off a big transformer feeding meters located in the electrical closet adjacent to the underground garage. This is the big problem: I can't run power from my existing meter into the garage. It's gonna have to be a new, separate meter, installed in the electrical closet, and tied to the big transformer in there. This is a complex project; he believes he'll have to install a new meter panel and breaker, in that electrical closet, then run conduit all the way to my parking space. Big job. Ballpark estimate: over $3k. (!!!)

    May 20 - Later same day, met SDGE's Randy at a local San Diego Tesla Club event. Did some follow-on communication to learn more about EV-TOU rates.

    May 20 - I email Randy to let him know I'm getting nowhere with SDGE. He intercedes on my behalf. I finally get a human at the Planning Dept.

    May 21 - Meanwhile, the Condo's HOA (homeowner's association) says they cannot approve any work until they know what the work is. I was under impression SDGE needed to come out, inspect the site, give it their blesssing, etc. No. Electrician needs to come out, do the work; SDGE says they looked up my address and there is plenty of power going into the building and that is as far as they go.

    May 22 - I start communicating with one of the SDGE planners in the Planning Dept. He's not the normal planner for my area, he reminds me time and time again. The normal one is on vacation or something and this guy is filling in for him and doesn't seem too happy about it.

    May 29 - I hear from the SDGE planner who's regularly assigned to my area. He's back I guess. Ready to schedule an appt.

    May 30 - I meet with planner. He doesn't know what a NEMA 14-50 is. Doesn't seem technical. Seems to think there is plenty of power coming into the building and as far as SDGE's concerned that's all they care about. The rest is up to the electrician's detail plans.

    May 31 - The SDGE planner emails me saying they approve adding the new meter, and it's all up to the electrician and the city permit at this point.

    June 4 - Rob from Calray says he'll be out of town but when he is back he needs to come back and do detailed measurements. We both get busy and weeks pass.

    June 27 - I email Rob to see about scheduling a time for him to come back out to measure.

    July 3 - Rob comes out to measure.

    July 11 - All quiet, waiting to hear from Calray for next steps. I contact Rob to ask what's going on. Rob replies, saying he's gotten a quote for the manufacture of a custom meter panel (that matches the building's existing 20+ year old panels). Now he's waiting on the City permitting dept.

    July 18 - All quiet for past week, I inquire to Rob at Calray if there's been any update. I hear from Rob. He says City of San Diego wants to charge $1000 for a permit. He has to fight that as it is absurd. Later this day I finally get a written estimate from Calray. Over $3600 for the project. Which coincidentally is just under what I used to pay annually for gas in my old Audi ICE car.

    July 19 - Rob successfully widdles the City permit down to $300. I write back and tell him we've approved the estimate and let's get going.

    July 19 - I realize that this project is going to involve shutting power off for half the units of the condo while the new meter is installed. Which means I have to awaken the HOA beast and let them know and also the property management firm and prepare documents and notices to be sent out etc etc. This is such a crazy complex project.

    July 19 - I finally place the order for the Model S.

    July 21 - SDGE Planner emails me with a PDF application for getting EV-TOU rates and a second meter. I fill out the form and send it back. I send a copy to the electrician. (One thing I've learned in this project: KEEP EVERYONE INFORMED. 360 DEGREE COMMUNICATION IS THE KEY TO A SUCCESSFUL PROJECT. Anything less is a doomed project and a frustrated customer.)

    July 23 - Back and forth emails with Rob at Calray - we have scheduled an August 7th date for doing the work, including shutting power offf.

    July 29 - Two weeks have passed; I have to confirm the Model S order on the Tesla website. (Two days later, Tesla announces parking sensors, which I long wanted. Sigh. I talk to Tesla; they say too bad; my only resource is to cancel the order, reorder, but new pricing means an identical car w/ parking sensors will cost $4500 more. Given cost of this electrical install, I punt on parking sensors.)

    First week of August - the custom-manufactured meter panel is coming along slowly. August 7th date is not gonna happen. Now it looks like much later in the month.

    Aug 3 - Tesla emails me saying congrats! your car is in production, what date would you like delivery to be, how about Aug 20? I realize I may have a car before I have power to charge it. I say duh, of course I will take Aug 20.

    Aug 7 - Rob from Calray says the manufacturer working on the custom meter panel will be done sooner than expected; we may be able to do the garage install earlier than expected. (This is good; it might mean I have power before the car arrives! A far better situation than the opposite)

    2nd Week of Aug - Tesla tells me that production is slipping. Aug 20th delivery date not going to happen. Earliest now looks like Sept 7th. Would that be okay? (What am I supposed to say? I say duh, of course, if that is the soonest you can do, then let's do it.)

    Aug 15 - HOA meeting; they approve the project, including the meter installation, brief power outage, NEMA 14-50 install, etc. Good. I email Rob at Calray confirming we can do the install on Aug 21. Notices go out to all condo owners about brief power outage that will happen that day.

    Aug 21 - Calray team shows up at 8am. They install the meter panel (no meter; that's SDGE's responsibility), do the power outage, run the conduit, install the NEMA 14-50, sweep up and are outa there midafternoon. Nobody from the CIty of San Diego shows up. They were supposed to show up to inspect Calray's work. SDGE will not move forward until the City blesses the work.)

    Aug 22 - Tesla Motors emails me to say hey good news, your car is moving through production faster than expected. Remember that Sept 7 delivery date? Well we can beat that. How about, oh, end of August? (Yes!!!)

    Aug 23 - still no inspector from City. Rob finds out that the inspector DID come out. He found the electrical closet locked (the default state, duh) and so he just got back in his car and left and told nobody. Gotta love city bureacracy. As I said, when there is no communication, a project of this nature collapses.

    Aug 25 - Rob explains that City Inspector cannot be pinned down to a time. Just a day. And even that is iffy. They come and go as they please, basically. I give Rob explicit instructions on how to contact me at several phone numbers including cell. I ask him to pass that info on to City Inspector. As soon as Inspector decides to grace my town with his presence, I will drop everything and make a bee-line over to the condo garage and be there to let him into electrical closet.

    Aug 26 - Telsa bombarding me with emails reminding me (oh so gently) that "Your Purchase Paperwork Is Ready". Yeah, yeah, I know.

    Aug 28 - I am scheduled to go to Tesla San Diego tomorrow to take delivery of car. Oh, and pay Tesla. And I have no power and no City Inspector in sight. And very hard to communicate with Calray.

    Aug 29 - I now own a Model S. And I have no power at home to charge it. Crazy day trying to connect with Calray and City and SDGE. SDGE won't budge until City inspects; City has a don't give a **** attitude. Ah, the bleeding edge of technology early adoption. Meanwhile I finally connect with Rob at Calray late at night -- we finally start getting somewhere at 9pm at night, calling from our homes. We have a City Inspector who's willing to come out Aug 30. Then SDGE will come and install the meter. The car will have no charge the first night. Oh well, I can test the legendary "vampire" battery discharge.

    Aug 30 - The day before Labor Day weekend. I am panicked that I will have no power for the car until after Labor Day! I will have to charge up at the UTC Mall's Tesla slow chargers. And only if they are not busy. And they are always busy and maxed out with test drive cars. Long story short, the City Inspector shows up. Rob has to be there, he shows up. We have the required people. They talk. City Inspector looks at Rob's work. Seems okay to him. Signs off on it. Rob signs. City of San Diego has approved it. Rob leaves. City guy wants to see the car. Never seen one before. I do my first Tesla Model S demo. There will be many more. All owners know this is another price of early adopterism. Now if we can only get SDGE out here..... long story short, SDGE guy shows up in the nick of time, before end of Friday. He sees everything is in order, he pops in a meter, he lets me throw the breaker switch. We walk over to the car. I give the SDGE guy a full demo as well. AND, I plug in my UMC and plug into car, and it glows green! I am charging. Just before Labor Day weekend hits, I have car, I have power, I set the car to charge starting at 12:01 am each night, to get the cheapest off-off-peak EV-TOU rates from SDGE. All is well.

    What a gigantic project, how ridiculously inefficient, all due to slow communication, huge impersonal bureaucracies, etc. And expensive. But, nothing compared to say remodeling a kitchen or building a house, projects which make getting a NEMA 14-50 installed in a condo garage seem like child's play in comparison.

    Anyway, that's how things rolled for me.
     
  8. earlyretirement

    earlyretirement Model X 90D

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    That's how I estimated it as well. For example, on my last bill which I got a bit over a week ago I showed these charges:

    Baseline: 307 kWh hours = $0.05079

    100% to 130% of Baseline: 92 kWh = $0.07392

    131% to 200% of Baseline: 215 kWh = $0.17703

    More than 200% of Baseline: 688 kWh = $0.19703

    Then there are various "summer electricity generation" charges to add in but all of these costs per kWh seem to be lower than the $0.27 kWh "on peak" that we mostly seem to use. So really switching the entire house to the TOU rate doesn't seem like it would help us. Especially because the only thing we would be charging off peak is the car.

    But with the dedicated meter, it looks like we'll still have the benefits of the lower rates that seem to be lower than the peak TOU 2 rates and any charging we do for our EV's would be ONLY at the $0.14 cents per kWh rate.

    So we might even have seen a rate increase switching to the entire house TOU 2 rate if we charge the bulk of our things during peak hours. And this way adding the dedicated meter it seems like we'd still benefit from the lower non-TOU rates for the rest of the house, yet get the added benefit of the super off peak 0.14 cents per kWh rate for the dedicated meter. From what I estimated, those hours charging the car(s) would be at the higher tiered rates by not going on the entire house TOU 2 rates. And by adding it to the entire house, we would be paying more per kWh during peak vs. our old bills?

    Am I missing something? I'd love to hear your thoughts Randy if I'm figuring this correctly? I'm a total EV rookie and SDGE rookie as well.
     
  9. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Here's a cut and paste from a thread on the Tesla Motors forum. Basically, if you have a large house, don't get a separate meter, just go on the TOU-2 rate and you'll save a lot of money. As in your bill will go down.

    -----

    Yes, I'm home all day, usually. My electric usage from before the TOU-2 rate to now is approx. the same. On a per kWh basis, I am actually saving 38% off my bill. My TOU breakdown (June bill) is

    On-peak: 25%
    Off-peak: 57%
    Super off-peak: 17%

    The thing people don't seem to understand is that MOST of their usage is at tier 4 prices, which is north of $0.29 per kWh the last time I checked (you have to add up the delivery charges and the generation charges).

    In June, I was being charged on the TOU-2 rate:

    On-peak: 0.265 / kWh
    Off-peak: 0.159 / kWh
    Super off: 0.13374 / kWh

    There are no tiers for TOU-2 rates, just time of day.

    Even if ALL of my usage was on-peak, I would still be ahead since the on-peak rate is still lower than the tier 4 rate (which is what most people's usage gets charged at, if you have a large home - eg. AC, pool pump, landscape lighting, etc.). But given the above breakdown (and remember that off-peak includes weekends), you can see how much cheaper it would be.

    The one thing I have done different now that I'm on TOU-2 is run the pool filter pump at midnight instead of the day.
     
  10. earlyretirement

    earlyretirement Model X 90D

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    Holy cow Brian! I knew your situation was more difficult but WOW I didn't realize it was that much of a nightmare. I still say that without Calray Electric it probably wouldn't get done. And probably much of the slow down was trying to track down info from SDGE and the City.

    I think that SDGE and the City can learn a lot from our stories. I agree communication is always the key on something like this.

    I'm confident that our stories will help future people that want to get the meter. And I'm also confident that SDGE will improve communications and the process and the paperwork. With new technology this kind of stuff happens.

    My situation was NOTHING compared to yours. Wow are we going to have a lot to talk about on Wednesday when we meet up for coffee! LOL.

    Just as an FYI, The Tesla store at UTC is great. I called them after my HPWC got disconnected and asked them if I could come down and charge for 2 hours. I was having lunch with my wife there anyway and buying a birthday present for my friend. They said I could charge for 2 hours. I got about 50 miles per hour on their charger in the garage. He said that when they are able to do it, they don't mind if customers do this. So that is always an option in a pinch.

    I had to call the store again when I got there. And the first time it went to the main company line somewhere outside of California. They transferred me back to the store and they answered and came out to meet me. He moved a car and then brought out an adapter to fit on the end of their charger and voila.....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks for reposting here as well. Cosmacelf, do you know for the delivery charges and summer generation fees, don't these also get added no matter if you're on the TOU 2 rate or normal billing?
     
  11. drees

    drees Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    San Diego
    Great stories guys - I have to say that my Blink EVSE installed under the EV Project was dead simple (complete with separate meter and special rates) was dead simple. It was literally:

    1. Meet EV Project sub-contractor to get an estimate. Easy install, service panel in garage, new meter installed next to service panel outside, EVSE installed (with 6-50 plug) at back of garage.
    2. A month later, sub-contractor is ready to install, schedules time to do it, they are in and out in a couple hours.
    3 I meet them and the Encinitas inspector the next day. Everything looks good, sign-off is quick. Good timing as I was to pick up my LEAF in a few days.

    As far as the SDG&E rate plans, yes all the rates just went up September 1st.

    You can see the total rates here: Total Residential Electric Rates | San Diego Gas Electric

    Schedule DR (the typical rate) Summer / Winter:
    0.14764 / 0.14764 Tier 1
    0.17077 / 0.17077 Tier 2
    0.34590 / 0.32737 Tier 3
    0.36590 / 0.34737 Tier 4

    Yeah - Tier 3 and Tier 4 rates went up a LOT.

    Schedule EV-TOU Summer / Winter
    0.16012 / 0.16225 Super Off-Peak 12am-5am
    0.18556 / 0.18799 Off-Peak 5am-12pm, 8pm-12am
    0.29003 / 0.19534 On-Peak 12pm-8pm

    So yeah - if you are in to Tier3+, the EV-TOU rates are always cheaper than DR rates, especially in the winter.

    BTW - EV-TOU2 is the plan for when you put your whole house on the EV-TOU plan. The rates are basically identical.

    If you have solar, the DR-SES plan is an option, but it's really hard to tell if DR-SES or EV-TOU2 would be less expensive.

    Pros for DR-SES:
    On-peak period is 11am-6pm so you will feed more energy into the grid at on-peak rates
    Weekdays/holidays are excluded from on-peak pricing which is when you are most likely to charge during peak hours.

    Negatives for DR-SES:
    Off-Peak rate is significantly higher than EV-TOU Super-off-peak rate $0.20 / kWh. This
    Weekdays/holidays are excluded from on-peak pricing and your PV system is likely to generate an excess of electricity during this time.

    I really wish one could plug in a year's worth of usage data into each plan to figure out what's the cheapest!
    On one hand, weekends/holidays are excluded from peak rates
     
  12. earlyretirement

    earlyretirement Model X 90D

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I had a quick question that I figured some of you experts would be able to answer.


    So I got my dedicated SDGE TOU meter hooked up and used it for the first time yesterday. I plan on keeping very detailed notes/diary to track the usage, miles charges and kWh charges by SDGE. It's easy as the meter started out at 0.00.


    So I plugged it in to start after 12:30 AM when I have super peak rates.


    On Tesla's website: Tesla Charging | Tesla Motors


    They estimate that charging it 170 miles with a HPWC with dual chargers would use about 55.9 kWh and take about 2 hours 53 minutes to charge.


    Well, I charged exactly 168 miles (I couldn't get it exactly on their estimator) yet I went out to look on my SDGE meter and it says I used 66 kWh of power last night. If it was a smaller difference I wouldn't care but does anyone know what accounts for such a big percentage difference with what Tesla says would be estimated and what was actually charged by SDGE?


    I'd really appreciate some thoughts as it got me curious. Thanks in advance.
     
  13. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    3,399
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    San Diego
    The energy that gets put into the battery is always going to be smaller than what is taken from the grid due to transmission and conversion losses. You lose some energy in just the wires (they do heat up somewhat). You lose a lot more energy in the on-board car charger than converts 240V AC to 400V DC for the battery.
     
  14. earlyretirement

    earlyretirement Model X 90D

    Joined:
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    207
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Ah ok. Got it. I didn't know if it was something like that or it was more of the gimmicky type marketing that Tesla sometimes uses. LOL.

    Still, you would think if it was that big of a % difference, Tesla would increase it a bit. I guess in the grand scheme of things it's not a big deal. I was just curious about it when I saw it.
     
  15. brianstorms

    brianstorms Member

    Joined:
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    ...
    Funny, I've taken the opposite approach to the EV-TOU meter for my NEMA 14-50. Once the SDGE guy popped it in and I threw the breaker switch on, I have put the whole ordeal out of mind. I haven't looked at the meter once. (It's locked in an electrical closet, and a hassle to go in and inspect.) I just charge at midnight each night, and find a charged car (I've set it to 235 mi, I guess about 80% of capacity?) each morning, which is a new thrill each day.

    Maybe I should check out the meter once in a while and see if things are okay. :)
     
  16. drees

    drees Active Member

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    Location:
    San Diego
    As Cosmacelf mentions, the car and website is giving you "in car" numbers. You should expect "from the wall" numbers to be about 15% greater - the difference comes from losses in converting AC to DC, cooling pumps, etc. Not a coincidence that 56 kWh is 85% of 66 kWh.
     
  17. earlyretirement

    earlyretirement Model X 90D

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Hey Brian. Ha, ha. Yeah, maybe that is the best approach to take. But for me the meter is just outside of my garage so it's easy to see. I figure it would be interesting to keep a journal/spreadsheet each time I charge it to keep track of the data. I think the more information we all share the better experience it will be for future people that buy Tesla's. Maybe after I get a few months of data, I'll post it on Google Docs so people can see it.

    Yeah, this is great to know for us EV rookies. Super helpful information.
     
  18. earlyretirement

    earlyretirement Model X 90D

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
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    207
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I've had a few people ask me what the set up looks like when they are done. Here is a photo of the meters side by side.

    wwlpbn.jpg
     
  19. RandyS

    RandyS Fan of Elon

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    360
    Location:
    San Diego
    Yes, as people have said, the meter will register a little more energy to replenish than the car actually uses, because there are losses and other things such as the battery cooling system on the car, and all of that vampire load for those of us using software that is pre-version 5.0.

    And, as Drees pointed out, the prices for Tiers 3 and 4 on the DR rate went up substantially. This is because the rates for Tiers 1 and 2 have been frozen for many years at below-market prices (due to legislative action after the energy crisis in 2000). This introduces all sort of pricing issues that ultimately will need to be resolved. Tier 1/2 customers are basically being subsidized by Tier 3/4 customers. And the high prices in Tier 3/4 encourage more people to leave by installing solar systems, etc. This in turn shrinks the pool of Tier 3/4 customers that are paying all of the rate increases and public purpose programs for the last decade that can only be applied to customers in Tier 3/4. Hopefully the situation will be able to be sorted out and some relief will be able to be introduced to make rates more equitable for everyone.
     
  20. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    You're kidding Randy, right? There is a loooong way to go before tier 3,4 rates don't keep getting the brunt of price increases. I have very little faith in the PUC to do the "right" thing.
     

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