My experience taking Tesla to court about FSD

[yessuz]

100% no.

I know the article below is not the quite same but the principle is.

In a 10 minute span the autopilot can go on and off several times due to a variety of factors (phantom brake, auto-lane change fail etc etc). I hate the ping and pongs in my Tesla - far too many of them but AP on/off is a must.

Eastern Air Lines Flight 401 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

what NO? It is a must because you do not know that it can be better? How did you live before when cars had Cruise/TACC and it was silent? did you crash all the time, you were not aware you enabled it? WTF.

now for the constructive stuff.

Firstly - Autopilot has no lane change mechanism. only EAP has it.. that is for starters. So "disable and not aware of it" does not apply.

Secondly, all, (probably all) other manufacturers let driver to enable and disable "Autopilot" feature (what ever you call it Driver assistant, Blue, or whatever) silently - just an indication on hud. like now, AP has it as well - you know, indication on hud.. I had BMW 330e, 69 reg (nice) which had driver assistant which was EVERYTHING EXACTLY THE SAME as Tesla's autopilot, just significantly better - silent enable/disable, auto-resume after lane change, acceleration when overtaking, touch sensitive wheel, auto slow down (GOOD WAY, not too fast, not too late) when approaching roundabouts, etc. I am not talking about some sorcery like auto parking, parking "memory" etc.

Thirdly, There is a HUGE difference between EMERGENCY disabling it for any reason (any issue as you wrote, like phantom breaking (that thing alone SHOUNLD NEVER EVER FoCKIN EXIST, that is the most important)) and when you push the stalk - it is BING BONG, then you change lane it is BING BONG, then you push stalk again - BING BONG. - 3 time in span of 10 s...

only delusional sociopaths like this stupid bing bonging.

but again, all normal sane car manufacturers make it that it resumes AP after lane change, or it accelerates if TACC/AP set speed is higher than the car in front and once you start overtaking, that you know, you did not jump into faster lane at 50 mph when all around you in 70.. - but this is Tesla, where some deluded people still believe that Tesla's systems are the best in the market, when it definitely aren't.

 

[pdk42]

what NO? It is a must because you do not know that it can be better? How did you live before when cars had Cruise/TACC and it was silent? did you crash all the time, you were not aware you enabled it? WTF.

now for the constructive stuff.

Firstly - Autopilot has no lane change mechanism. only EAP has it.. that is for starters. So "disable and not aware of it" does not apply.

Secondly, all, (probably all) other manufacturers let driver to enable and disable "Autopilot" feature (what ever you call it Driver assistant, Blue, or whatever) silently - just an indication on hud. like now, AP has it as well - you know, indication on hud.. I had BMW 330e, 69 reg (nice) which had driver assistant which was EVERYTHING EXACTLY THE SAME as Tesla's autopilot, just significantly better - silent enable/disable, auto-resume after lane change, acceleration when overtaking, touch sensitive wheel, auto slow down (GOOD WAY, not too fast, not too late) when approaching roundabouts, etc. I am not talking about some sorcery like auto parking, parking "memory" etc.

Thirdly, There is a HUGE difference between EMERGENCY disabling it for any reason (any issue as you wrote, like phantom breaking (that thing alone SHOUNLD NEVER EVER FoCKIN EXIST, that is the most important)) and when you push the stalk - it is BING BONG, then you change lane it is BING BONG, then you push stalk again - BING BONG. - 3 time in span of 10 s...

only delusional sociopaths like this stupid bing bonging.

but again, all normal sane car manufacturers make it that it resumes AP after lane change, or it accelerates if TACC/AP set speed is higher than the car in front and once you start overtaking, that you know, you did not jump into faster lane at 50 mph when all around you in 70.. - but this is Tesla, where some deluded people still believe that Tesla's systems are the best in the market, when it definitely aren't.

You OK hun?

 

[yessuz]

You OK hun?

in reality Ii am annoyed that people think that tesla's AP implementation is Good and best thing since sliced bread and then create imaginary problems why it cannot be better.

worst things is - I had a better system for 2 years. and it is pain point for me when I see what tesla has and how crap it actually is.

 

[Js1977]

Firstly - Autopilot has no lane change mechanism. only EAP has it.. that is for starters. So "disable and not aware of it" does not apply.

You either have a very short memory or not paying attention. He has FSD... Stop rushing through the posts....He will get his refund soon....hopefully

 

[yessuz]

You either have a very short memory or not paying attention. He has FSD... Stop rushing through the posts....He will get his refund soon....hopefully

eh?? i think it is two different issues.

In a 10 minute span the autopilot can go on and off several times due to a variety of factors (phantom brake, auto-lane change fail etc etc). I hate the ping and pongs in my Tesla - far too many of them but AP on/off is a must.

Eastern Air Lines Flight 401 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

it is about ping pongs and how to make it better. EAP, FSD or AP - it does not matter. Actually EAP/FSD owners suffer SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than standard AP owners

 

[Js1977]

eh?? i think it is two different issues.

You quoted him and I quoted you from quoting him. His autopilot is different to yours hence why it has auto lane change. Thats all I said, capiche?

 

[yessuz]

You quoted him and I quoted you from quoting him. His autopilot is different to yours hence why it has auto lane change. Thats all I said, capiche?

And I was talking about AP in general..

btw - BMW's system

 

[Pagemakers]

Wowzers!!!

Trust me. If autopilot disconnects silently you will be in no end of trouble.

In the aviation industry (I know the Tesla isn’t) but apart from an engine fire, autopilot disconnect is the LOUDEST noise on the flight deck and that’s with a system can could disconnect and the impending crash could be 40 minutes away.

You go on dreaming buddy.

 

[Pagemakers]

in reality Ii am annoyed that people think that tesla's AP implementation is Good and best thing since sliced bread and then create imaginary problems why it cannot be better.

Please don’t count me in that group.

I think the autopilot implementation could be a million times better also.

For a start it’s FAR too noisy (apart from AP disconnect). Too many unnecessary notifications. Sorry to bring aviation into it again but on my aircraft (Airbus) all lights OUT is normal. No bings are normal. Fly for 6 hours like that. When a light comes on or a bing happens, you sit up and pay attention. Something is wrong. Something needs your attention.

My drive to work at night time….I’m 10 seconds out of my drive when I get BING no1, left camera blocked or blinded. 3 minutes later the SAME error. 1 minute later multiple cameras blocked to blinded. 10 seconds after that pay attention to the road or hold the steering wheel. It gets to the point where after 5 minutes of silence you are looking for an error message somewhere.

Imagine driving down the motorway at 70mph and something happens on the back seat. Autopilot is engaged and for a moment you look back to see what’s going on. You unintentionally nudge the stalk and autopilot SILENTLY disconnects. You are approaching a curve….

And before you say that’s utter bo11ocks read the aviation story above again. 3 experienced flight crew managed to do just that and killed 100 people.

 

[NewbieT]

I don’t get audible alerts for most notifications e.g. cameras are blinded. Definitely recommend Joe Mode to help keep focus and sanity.

 

[yessuz]

joe mode is on after 1st day I got the car

 

[yessuz]

Wowzers!!!

Trust me. If autopilot disconnects silently you will be in no end of trouble.

In the aviation industry (I know the Tesla isn’t) but apart from an engine fire, autopilot disconnect is the LOUDEST noise on the flight deck and that’s with a system can could disconnect and the impending crash could be 40 minutes away.

You go on dreaming buddy.

No, you are are wrong.
If AP disables silentyly - car starts to break. You already know it. AP in car is not same as in airplane. because you already know/feel and see it vs planes. that is just stupid comparison.
You know, there might be some wind noise in car - but in submarine it would be lethal. however we do not compare both.

ffs, all cars can enable/disable driver assistant and only tesla for any stupid reason has sounds on. well I know the reason - to sell EAP.

If there is EMERGENCY shut off - then OK. but when you change the lane?!

 

[GRiLLA]

For starters - Silent On/OFF of AP.

that would be for the start...

Well R79 requires an 'acoustic signal' for disengagement so no Tesla could not develop that without a regulation change. Also R157 that covers the future of self driving also requires an acoustic signal.

 

[Pagemakers]

I do get what @yessuz is saying.

Today on my drive…

Indicate to overtake. BIng Lane change unavailable.

Right turn on steering wheel to disconnect auto steer. Bing autopilot disconnected.

Change lane. Reengage autopilot. Bingx2 AP engaged.

You’ve overtaken the car so you indicate left and repeat the above. Bing. Bing. Bingx2

Over and over again.

There has to be a better logic to AP.

 

[yessuz]

Well R79 requires an 'acoustic signal' for disengagement so no Tesla could not develop that without a regulation change. Also R157 that covers the future of self driving also requires an acoustic signal.

so tesla could... just Do not ****in disengage with Lane change then?!

not that hard, huh?

 

[Pagemakers]

No, you are are wrong.
If AP disables silentyly - car starts to break. You already know it. AP in car is not same as in airplane. because you already know/feel and see it vs planes. that is just stupid comparison.
You know, there might be some wind noise in car - but in submarine it would be lethal. however we do not compare both.

ffs, all cars can enable/disable driver assistant and only tesla for any stupid reason has sounds on. well I know the reason - to sell EAP.

If there is EMERGENCY shut off - then OK. but when you change the lane?!

Just wow.

 

[yessuz]

I do get what @yessuz is saying.

Today on my drive…

Indicate to overtake. BIng Lane change unavailable.

Right turn on steering wheel to disconnect auto steer. Bing autopilot disconnected.

Change lane. Reengage autopilot. Bingx2 AP engaged.

You’ve overtaken the car so you indicate left and repeat the above. Bing. Bing. Bingx2

Over and over again.

There has to be a better logic to AP.

simplest logic - auto-re-enable AP after lane change. do not disable when lane changes.

simple concept.

 

[yessuz]

Just wow.

why wow... I think you wrote very well in one of your comment.

difference is betwenn AP logic with disengagements and emergency ones.

 

[Js1977]

 

[Pagemakers]

why wow... I think you wrote very well in one of your comment.

difference is betwenn AP logic with disengagements and emergency ones.

And those accidental disengagements?

Any those times when you think you’ve double clicked to engage and only single clicked.

Still think silent engagement/disengagement is a good idea?