My new solar and Powerwall installation

[ecarfan]

That still doesn't answer why the PowerWall is not eliminating your Peak usage. Now, if you tell me that you're air conditioning 3,000SF to 75F on a 90F day, then I would understand. I am surprised that you have apparently not drilled down into the details to see exactly why.

And I am "surprised" that you think I have not done so.

My peak rate extends to 9pm for Monday to Friday. Of course my solar production tapers down to nothing in the late afternoon. As that occurs the Powerwall starts to discharge to reduce my grid draw during peak rate hours. And I have set the Powerwall to never go below a 30% reserve so that in case of a power outage, no matter what the time of day, I always have some backup battery power for when the sun isn't shining. The Powerwall is only 6.4kWh total available capacity. 70% of that is only 4.48kWh. That isn't quite enough to always ensure that I never use any grid power at the peak rate. To achieve that goal I would need two Powerwalls.

Even with one Powerwall I am using almost no grid power at the peak rate. That's good enough for me.

 

[miimura]

And I am "surprised" that you think I have not done so.

My peak rate extends to 9pm for Monday to Friday. Of course my solar production tapers down to nothing in the late afternoon. As that occurs the Powerwall starts to discharge to reduce my grid draw during peak rate hours. And I have set the Powerwall to never go below a 30% reserve so that in case of a power outage, no matter what the time of day, I always have some backup battery power for when the sun isn't shining. The Powerwall is only 6.4kWh total available capacity. 70% of that is only 4.48kWh. That isn't quite enough to always ensure that I never use any grid power at the peak rate. To achieve that goal I would need two Powerwalls.

Even with one Powerwall I am using almost no grid power at the peak rate. That's good enough for me.

Ok. Fair enough, you did know but did not say. This just reinforces my opinion that the PowerWall 1.0 is not for me. I would not install a battery system that could not completely eliminate my Peak usage plus overnight critical circuit backup. I look forward to evaluating Tesla Energy's future products.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Ok. Fair enough, you did know but did not say. This just reinforces my opinion that the PowerWall 1.0 is not for me. I would not install a battery system that could not completely eliminate my Peak usage plus overnight critical circuit backup.

Why? If you're going to remain connected to the grid then logically you should be not only using power from the grid overnight, but potentially charging your battery to make sure you get through peak the next day. Off grid is another story, but if you care connected what's the point of avoiding the grid entirely at night?

 

[miimura]

Why? If you're going to remain connected to the grid then logically you should be not only using power from the grid overnight, but potentially charging your battery to make sure you get through peak the next day. Off grid is another story, but if you care connected what's the point of avoiding the grid entirely at night?

@ecarfan said that he reserves 30% of his PowerWall in case of grid outage. I think that's smart. However, that makes even less energy available for avoiding Peak period usage. My assertion is that I want to have a battery that is big enough to do both - completely avoid Peak period usage AND even after I've done that, power critical circuits if the power goes out overnight.

 

[ecarfan]

My assertion is that I want to have a battery that is big enough to do both - completely avoid Peak period usage AND even after I've done that, power critical circuits if the power goes out overnight.

Buy two Powerwalls. I only have one.

 

[JOEV1]

Hey Guys, You have to ask Yourself why not use that great and plentyful source of energy in the sky also at night? Or for the Car?
Sure, when calculating the necessary investment against the gain, it is very hard to break even... if not impossible. Yet..
But we must start somewhere, and become pioneers to preserve our planet. (we already agree with the idea of ev-motoring)
Why else is Elon thinking about going to Mars? El(i)on = Alien ??? (Nomen es Omen)
Is he really so far-sighted to present us a solution ...but sure it is a warning?!

Eagerly waiting for 28th October...

 

[WannabeOwner]

I have set the Powerwall to never go below a 30% reserve so that in case of a power outage, no matter what the time of day, I always have some backup battery power for when the sun isn't shining

I've been sat here pondering that and can't figure out if using Powerwall 100% (and running the risk of a power outage) would be a better strategy overall. Of course if your power supply is Iffy, and power cuts happen frequently, I can see the sense, but if they are a once-or-twice a year event I think reducing your grid power consumption, at peak, would be the best solution.

My understanding is that switch-over, during a power cut, is not instant - so all computers etc. will crash and lose whatever they were doing (unless they have their own UPS's) - so no benefit there (for me that would have been the number one reason to have a powerwall - to get rid of all the poxy UPSs that I have, which fail more often than the number of power cuts I have !!

I wonder how long the 30% reserve you have lasts [during a powercut]? I guess you could go around turning stuff off, to eek out the battery

(We have a generator socket on the outside of the house, and a switch that isolates the hour from the grid. Running the generator means that our solar panels are then able to contribute too, when the sun is shining. Power cuts for us are usually a few seconds (my guess is that happens once a month), whilst something at the utility trips and recovers; perhaps once a year we get a 4-ish hour power cut and once a decade we get one that lasts several days - e.g. after a storm)

 

[ecarfan]

My understanding is that switch-over, during a power cut, is not instant - so all computers etc. will crash and lose whatever they were doing (unless they have their own UPS's) - so no benefit there

I have tested the "switch-over" time and measured it in seconds, not minutes.

And all the computers in my house are laptops so they have their own batteries. I have no digital devices that will "crash" when the grid goes down. I have not owned a UPS for many years now.

 

[MP3Mike]

And all the computers in my house are laptops so they have their own batteries. I have no digital devices that will "crash" when the grid goes down. I have not owned a UPS for many years now.

What do you use for your Internet modem/router/WiFi?

 

[JOEV1]

My understanding is, that Elon plans to harness the power during the day and charge the car with it during the night.
Simply because, as it is now, when we get home from work and charge the car, the power must come from the utilities. And even if one has 40 kWp on the roof, it does not help one bit unless one can store the otherwise wasted power (if connected to the grid)
Having powerwalls allow us to save some of the power and the electricity bill comes down very quickly.
Sure, one unit alone does not get us very far. Who said that we must always top-up our car battery. (it unhealthy anyway)
Expansion is not a problem, and prices will come down too.

 

[ecarfan]

What do you use for your Internet modem/router/WiFi?

For the first few days I was using the Zigbee wireless unit that came with the SoalrEdge inverter. But after a day it started failing, losing the connection to my wifi. So I removed it and connected an Apple Airport wifi extender to the SolarEge through an Ethernet cable. It has worked perfectly ever since.

 

[MP3Mike]

For the first few days I was using the Zigbee wireless unit that came with the SoalrEdge inverter. But after a day it started failing, losing the connection to my wifi. So I removed it and connected an Apple Airport wifi extender to the SolarEge through an Ethernet cable. It has worked perfectly ever since.

You missed what I was asking about. You said that you don't have a UPS and that you "have no digital devices that will "crash" when the grid goes down". So I was curious what you used that would survive the power outage like your laptops.

Or do you just let the Internet go down and wait for everything to reboot during the switchover to the Powerwall backup?

 

[WannabeOwner]

I have no digital devices that will "crash" when the grid goes down. I have not owned a UPS for many years now.

Good point, I expect that is true for most residential users. I work from home and have a collection of servers, PABX (well ... the modern equivalent!) and "stuff". Also, my lighting is all driven by controller too (switches send "Switch 1 pressed" signal to controller, they don't directly control/isolate the circuit) but I don't think that going offline for a short while,. and coming back on, makes any odds to that; likewise for the heating thermostats / controller.

Personally a bit disappointed that PowerWall can't be used for uninterrupted supply, because that would totally solve that problem for me

It would be nice not to have to reset all the clocks in the house after a power cut! The previous oven we had wouldn't work at all until its clock was reset (to anything other than flashing "00:00" ...)

 

[WannabeOwner]

harness the power during the day and charge the car with it during the night.

Here in the UK we get pretty good rates for "exporting" to the grid and, of course, there is over supply during the night, so I reckon that exporting during the day, and buying it back (at off peak prices) at night, for the car, is fine - up to the point where the country generates enough from renewables that it then makes sense to store any surplus generation. I'd be happy with the car battery doing the buffering in the early evening, when demand (in the UK - very little demand for residential Air Con in the UK) is high for cooking and heating, and then charge the car later in the night.

 

[winfield100]

My understanding is, that Elon plans to harness the power during the day and charge the car with it during the night.
Simply because, as it is now, when we get home from work and charge the car, the power must come from the utilities. And even if one has 40 kWp on the roof, it does not help one bit unless one can store the otherwise wasted power (if connected to the grid)
Having powerwalls allow us to save some of the power and the electricity bill comes down very quickly.
Sure, one unit alone does not get us very far. Who said that we must always top-up our car battery. (it unhealthy anyway)
Expansion is not a problem, and prices will come down too.

there are other uses. frequency regulation, peak shaving, etc.
consider intelligent inverters
consider making a Virtual Power Plant (VPP) made from a localized aggregation of

1,000, 7 kilowatt PV arrays = a 7megawatt VPP
see whas going on in Australia fo example
AGL invests in world’s largest battery storage virtual power plant

 

[ecarfan]

What do you use for your Internet modem/router/WiFi?

You missed what I was asking about. You said that you don't have a UPS and that you "have no digital devices that will "crash" when the grid goes down". So I was curious what you used that would survive the power outage like your laptops. Or do you just let the Internet go down and wait for everything to reboot during the switchover to the Powerwall backup?

Sorry Mike, I did indeed misinterpret what you were asking me.

My internet access is provided by AT&T Uverse. I have their modem, which I connect to an Apple Airport Base Station. It is not on a UPS. So if the grid goes down then I have no internet until my house automatically switches over to solar/battery power and my modem and Airport boot back up. That would take a couple of minutes.

Of course it is possible that the grid could go down and AT&T Uverse would go down at the same time, depending on the reason for the grid failure. Then I could conceivably get some internet access via cell data and using my iPhone T-Mobile hotspot to create a local wifi network. But grid failure could also take down cell towers if say the grid failure was because of a major earthquake. Or the zombie apocalypse. Even then, I would still have some power at my house from solar/battery, but no internet.

 

[Not1Drop]

Loved reading through this entire thread, very informative and helpful as we're about to start going down this path shortly here in Canada. The Canadian distributor called a week ago and there will be someone coming to my home in another week and a half. Of course as I get closer to this going from concept to reality the questions start and math was never my forte. Suffice it to say I just know I can't continue to pay an average of $680 Canadian per month for our electrical needs in rural Ontario. House is geothermal, septic, well, pool with oil heat, and then we have an S85D for 3500 kms\month and a reservation for a 3.
This may actually be something that is already covered in another thread, if so please point me in the right direction, however i guess my question to you is more along the lines of what was your deciding factor, or the tipping point that lead you to go this route?

 

[ecarfan]

my question to you is more along the lines of what was your deciding factor, or the tipping point that lead you to go this route?

I have been thinking about installing solar on my roof for over a decade. The tipping point was the Powerwall becoming available. Solar makes the most sense to me if I can store excess energy generated during the day to use in the evening when my rate is high or at times when the grid is down. Of course people have been storing excess solar energy in batteries for a long time, but the batteries were, by and large, lousy for a variety of reasons. The Powerwall is a huge step forward. Is it the only Lion storage battery on the market? No. Is it the best? I think so.

Note: my spouse is from London, Ontario. I am happy to see Powerwalls becoming available in Canada.

 

[FlatSix911]

Tesla posted a mini announcement in their blog today ...
Tesla and Panasonic to Collaborate on Photovoltaic Cell and Module Production in Buffalo, New York

Tesla and Panasonic to Collaborate on Photovoltaic Cell and Module Production in Buffalo, New York
The Tesla Team October 16, 2016
Tesla and Panasonic have entered into a non-binding letter of intent under which they will begin collaborating on the manufacturing and production of photovoltaic (PV) cells and modules in Buffalo, New York. Under this agreement, which is contingent upon shareholders' approval of Tesla’s acquisition of SolarCity, Tesla will use the cells and modules in a solar energy system that will work seamlessly with Powerwall and Powerpack, Tesla’s energy storage products. With the aid of installation, sales and financing capabilities from SolarCity, Tesla will bring an integrated sustainable energy solution to residential, commercial, and grid-scale customers.

The parties intend for Panasonic to begin PV cell and module production at the Buffalo facility in 2017. Tesla intends to provide a long-term purchase commitment for those cells from Panasonic. The collaboration extends the established relationship between Tesla and Panasonic, which includes the production of electric vehicle and grid storage battery cells at Tesla’s Gigafactory.

JB Straubel, Chief Technical Officer and Co-founder of Tesla, said “We are excited to expand our partnership with Panasonic as we move towards a combined Tesla and SolarCity. By working together on solar, we will be able to accelerate production of high-efficiency, extremely reliable solar cells and modules at the best cost.”

Shuuji Okayama, Vice-president, Eco Solutions Company of Panasonic, added, “Panasonic PV cells and modules boast industry-leading power generation performance, and achieve high quality and reliability. We expect that the collaboration talks will lead to growth of the Tesla and Panasonic relationship.” The continued partnership between Tesla and Panasonic is an important step in creating fully-integrated energy products for businesses, home owners and utilities, and furthers Tesla’s mission toward a sustainable energy future.

 

[JOEV1]

Loved reading through this entire thread, very informative and helpful as we're about to start going down this path shortly here in Canada. The Canadian distributor called a week ago and there will be someone coming to my home in another week and a half. Of course as I get closer to this going from concept to reality the questions start and math was never my forte. Suffice it to say I just know I can't continue to pay an average of $680 Canadian per month for our electrical needs in rural Ontario. House is geothermal, septic, well, pool with oil heat, and then we have an S85D for 3500 kms\month and a reservation for a 3.
This may actually be something that is already covered in another thread, if so please point me in the right direction, however i guess my question to you is more along the lines of what was your deciding factor, or the tipping point that lead you to go this route?

Go for it Man! PV is the most trouble-free of all "green sytems" that I have. (geotherm etc.) You can virtually install it and forget. And if You are at home during the day and weekends, You can charge Your car for free.
OK, in winter I might have to move the fresh snow from the roof. But as in my case, it is quite easy. see photo.
I got an UPS from my Company as they decided to install a generator and it only takes half a minute to kick in.
With this UPS I run my night-time power in the house and more. My E-bill dropped to less than 1/4. For the sake of cycle-life of the Gel-batteries I discharge only to about 80%. Which actually makes me think about the Powerwall and its much better cycle life and deeper cycles.