MYLR vs Subaru Outback: Outback better AP and reliability?

[guardyourheart]

I have a MYLR on order but am having second thoughts after learning about problems with the Tesla Vision system, phantom braking, poorly functioning TACC/AP, and crappy customer service if it's needed. I have a 100 mile round trip commute, mostly interstate highway, so AP and minimizing driver fatigue are important. I was impressed after test driving an Outback Limited. My observations:

Comfort: Tesla seats definitely more comfortable for me than Subaru.

Driver assistance: Subaru Eyesight actually worked better than AP: no PB, doesn't get confused when a lane merges into my lane, doesn't shut off if I deviate from the center of the lane to miss potholes. Frequent PB is a deal breaker because it increases driver fatigue from paying attention. AP is better on sharp curves.

Reliability: My biggest concern with Tesla. Yes, I won't have oil changes etc with an EV. But if I need service or get into an accident, the Tesla service centers in my area are notable for slow/poor service, long delays to get an appt, slow to get parts, no loaners and insufficient Uber credits for my length commute, I've heard of a Plaid in service for weeks, no loaner, no explanation, can't reach anyone by phone, no one calls back. I live over 45 minutes from a service center, so not sure if a mobile tech would come that far.

No question, the Tesla is a more modern car and more fun to drive than the Outback. But who cares about fun if the hassle factor is high? I work nearly 70 hrs/wk including the commute, so reliability is important.

For those who have driven an Outback and/or a vision only Tesla, what are your thoughts and experiences?

 

[paratrooper]

Always tough to work through cost / benefit analysis which is why you're asking questions here. At current prices, Tesla has a lot of up front costs due to recent price increases and negates any gas savings over life of the vehicle. Really comes down to tech, needs, and comfort for you. There are so many EV options now with creature comforts and more on the way. Competition is good!

A big differentiator though is that Tesla Supercharger network. Still pretty cool they'll come to the house to rotate tires and other basic items. However there is a lot of benefit to dealers, third-party shops, and mechanics all over the country for long distance trips or replacement parts. Meaning if you have an issue lot easier to get fixed or repaired for ICE. I've not seen a lot of comparisons for the other major brands that have EVs and if they're just as quick as ICE repairs or if they're hampered by crazy delays like Tesla on simple items. Only time will tell there. I know folks will talk about market adjustments and markups at dealerships however with 8 or more dealerships in less than 30 minutes in my area they will still compete and drop those market adjustments due to competition which is still alive. (just went through that exercise 3 weeks ago)

I'm still hoping Tesla starts getting a handle on inventory and service center expansion since there are still large gaps just up and down the East Coast if you run into issues.

The model 3 and Y are awesome choices but at new pricing it gives me pause. Especially considering you can get surround view cameras for parking, massaging seats, heads up display, and other cool items at that price point like ventilated seats, etc.

Lots of great advice in the forums. I sold my S but we kept our 2019 3 which we still love. Back to keeping one foot in both worlds due to our needs.

Happy decision making!

 

[dan031970]

I own a Crosstrek and a model YLR. The Crosstrek has vision based adaptive cruise control that actually works properly. That said the MY is in another league when it comes to overall technology and performance. Subaru's are great cars with an outstanding AWD system, but they tend to be real dogs under acceleration.

It really comes down to what you want. A Subaru is a lower risk and lower cost alternative, but I love my MY as it is infinitely more fun to drive.

 

[avs007]

Subaru's Eyesight has people complaining about phantom braking too. Doesn't excuse what's going on with Tesla, just saying that they aren't alone.

 

[ucmndd]

Subaru's Eyesight has people complaining about phantom braking too. Doesn't excuse what's going on with Tesla, just saying that they aren't alone.

Any problems that Subaru exhibits in this area are orders of magnitude lower than what Teslas currently experience. There is no point in comparing.

No experience with an Outback but I’ve driven thousands of miles in an eyesight equipped Ascent. I find the configuration of the Subaru features absolutely maddening out of the box - the constant beeping on every single state change or event is massively annoying. You can tune a lot of this out after spending an hour in the terrible settings UI, but not all of it.

That said, the radar cruise works well. You can trust it and not constantly have your foot hovering over the pedal like you often need to in a Tesla. However, the lane keep assist is just that, an assist, and I don’t find it in any way comparable to Tesla autosteer.

It’s unfortunate Tesla has bungled things so badly with these vision only cars. One thought - at least in my Model S, the areas where it is prone to phantom braking are pretty consistent. You might want to see if you can rent one on Turo and drive your normal commute - that should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

 

[avs007]

Any problems that Subaru exhibits in this area are orders of magnitude lower than what Teslas currently experience. There is no point in comparing.

I was reading some of the problems that were posted... Some people claimed that sometimes when the outback engaged the brakes, it would not release the brake unless you put the car in park then back in drive again. That would be highly annoying... But with that being said, as far as anecdotes go, my Acura and Infiniti phantom brake way more than my Y does. The Infiniti will even engage the seatbelt pretentioners in a few places. The Infiniti at least is predictable with where it engages, so I can anticipate it... The acura will just slam on the brakes if the wind is blowing in the right direction. At least since the last update with my Y, I actually haven't experienced very many phantom braking events, and the ones I did, was way less severe than before, only scrubbing 2-5 mph as opposed to 30+. Altho, currently, my main gripe with AP now, is that it freaks out in the rain... At least it's not freaking out in that it slams on the brakes, but it freaks out with trucks next to me when it's raining, annoying me with a bunch of audible alerts, probably becuase the side cameras get washed out.

 

[Itsuo-DC]

Reliability: My biggest concern with Tesla. Yes, I won't have oil changes etc with an EV. But if I need service or get into an accident, the Tesla service centers in my area are notable for slow/poor service, long delays to get an appt, slow to get parts, no loaners and insufficient Uber credits for my length commute, I've heard of a Plaid in service for weeks, no loaner, no explanation, can't reach anyone by phone, no one calls back. I live over 45 minutes from a service center, so not sure if a mobile tech would come that far.

Both my '18 M3 and then my '21 MY needed body work after being hit.

The M3 went to a Tesla service center and the MY went to a reputable, insurance/Tesla approved body shop. Both times my insurance company provided a loaner and there were rental car companies nearby who picked me up.

The service on both was great, for the work on the MY the Tesla body shop wasn't an option because they said they're focusing on bolt-on repairs as opposed to body work. The body shop was excellent and honestly much closer to me.

 

[sleepydoc]

We have a Model Y LR and a 2020 Forester. @ucmndd (and your test drive) is correct - the Subaru adaptive cruise has been flawless for us. Not a single phantom braking event in 8k miles. In my Tesla I’m lucky to get 8 miles. That said, it has been improving, it just still has a long way to go to match Subaru’s system. The interesting thing is they’re both vision based, so While Tesla started having issues with PB when they switched from radar to vision, Subaru has shown that a vision based system can work well.

The lane keep assist features are different between the two. Subaru’s is designed to be just that, an assist with continual driver input whereas Tesla’s is more of a driver monitoring. You’re correct that Tesla won’t avoid potholes, though.

From a reliability point, the data (consumer reports and JD power) would say go with Subaru.

Other differences - the suspension in our MY sucks. If you have rough roads the Subaru will give you the better ride, hands down.

Subaru has one of the best AWD systems on the market. My MY has a tendency for the back to slide a bit on slippery roads. I attribute that to a combination of the weight distribution as well as the rear bias in power/motor usage. Having said that, after getting used to how the Y handles it always stays in control an I’m very comfortable driving it in MN.

The two take a very different approach to their interface. Subaru has CarPlay & android auto and has 3 different displays and multiple buttons. Tesla takes a minimalist approach. Neither is perfect - after 2 years I still miss CarPlay on my Tesla. Whether that matters to you depends on your use. In some ways the buttons and displays are more confusing in the Subaru, but for some things they’re just easier. Having a physical control for the wipers heated seats and defroster is just easier. I’d really like a hybrid of the two, maybe ¾ Tesla and ¼ Subaru.

With the exception of the ride driving the Tesla is more enjoyable. The EV power train is just nicer, hands down. It’s also much more painful to fill up the Subaru than it is to plug in the Tesla. If you’re driving 100 mi per day to work you can probably plan on spending an extra $400/month in gas right now. Of course the Subaru would be cheaper up front. You’ll also likely wait longer for the Tesla, if that’s a factor.

They’re both good cars, but have different strengths and weaknesses.

 

[GordJ]

We have a Model Y LR and a 2020 Forester. @ucmndd (and your test drive) is correct - the Subaru adaptive cruise has been flawless for us. Not a single phantom braking event in 8k miles. In my Tesla I’m lucky to get 8 miles. That said, it has been improving, it just still has a long way to go to match Subaru’s system. The interesting thing is they’re both vision based, so While Tesla started having issues with PB when they switched from radar to vision, Subaru has shown that a vision based system can work well.

The lane keep assist features are different between the two. Subaru’s is designed to be just that, an assist with continual driver input whereas Tesla’s is more of a driver monitoring. You’re correct that Tesla won’t avoid potholes, though.

From a reliability point, the data (consumer reports and JD power) would say go with Subaru.

Other differences - the suspension in our MY sucks. If you have rough roads the Subaru will give you the better ride, hands down.

Subaru has one of the best AWD systems on the market. My MY has a tendency for the back to slide a bit on slippery roads. I attribute that to a combination of the weight distribution as well as the rear bias in power/motor usage. Having said that, after getting used to how the Y handles it always stays in control an I’m very comfortable driving it in MN.

The two take a very different approach to their interface. Subaru has CarPlay & android auto and has 3 different displays and multiple buttons. Tesla takes a minimalist approach. Neither is perfect - after 2 years I still miss CarPlay on my Tesla. Whether that matters to you depends on your use. In some ways the buttons and displays are more confusing in the Subaru, but for some things they’re just easier. Having a physical control for the wipers heated seats and defroster is just easier. I’d really like a hybrid of the two, maybe ¾ Tesla and ¼ Subaru.

With the exception of the ride driving the Tesla is more enjoyable. The EV power train is just nicer, hands down. It’s also much more painful to fill up the Subaru than it is to plug in the Tesla. If you’re driving 100 mi per day to work you can probably plan on spending an extra $400/month in gas right now. Of course the Subaru would be cheaper up front. You’ll also likely wait longer for the Tesla, if that’s a factor.

They’re both good cars, but have different strengths and weaknesses.

We have a '22 MY LR and a '17 Outback Limited. I agree with your summation: They’re both good cars, but have different strengths and weaknesses. Here in WNC Subies are everywhere for a reason. We have decided to keep ours. On a 1700-mile trip last month I experienced Tesla AP's "unique" handling of on-ramps as they merge with the highway - having your hands on the wheel hit home. I am one of those wonks who likes the MY ride, likes the seats (I put down a sheepskin for the long drives), don't miss the Apple/Android stuff (Bluetooth from my Pixel 6 Pro works just fine), don't miss the Subie downshifting and revving to 4K rpm's while going up a hill with cruise control and certainly am aware of the costs of "fuel" for both cars. The flawless Supercharger network ties it all up in a big bow (we have a WC at home). Subaru's Solterra should bring more people to plug in if their reputation and brand loyalty stays with it and that would be a good thing for a lot of reasons - competition benefits us all. We, on this side of the street are fortunate to be able to sit in the front seat of the future with our MY and as most Tesla owners know, there is no one on the road in front of us.

 

[WhiteWi]

In my Tesla I’m lucky to get 8 miles.

Well that’s a huge lie.

 

[nate704]

We have a Model Y LR and a 2020 Forester. @ucmndd (and your test drive) is correct - the Subaru adaptive cruise has been flawless for us. Not a single phantom braking event in 8k miles. In my Tesla I’m lucky to get 8 miles. That said, it has been improving, it just still has a long way to go to match Subaru’s system. The interesting thing is they’re both vision based, so While Tesla started having issues with PB when they switched from radar to vision, Subaru has shown that a vision based system can work well.

The lane keep assist features are different between the two. Subaru’s is designed to be just that, an assist with continual driver input whereas Tesla’s is more of a driver monitoring. You’re correct that Tesla won’t avoid potholes, though.

From a reliability point, the data (consumer reports and JD power) would say go with Subaru.

Other differences - the suspension in our MY sucks. If you have rough roads the Subaru will give you the better ride, hands down.

Subaru has one of the best AWD systems on the market. My MY has a tendency for the back to slide a bit on slippery roads. I attribute that to a combination of the weight distribution as well as the rear bias in power/motor usage. Having said that, after getting used to how the Y handles it always stays in control an I’m very comfortable driving it in MN.

The two take a very different approach to their interface. Subaru has CarPlay & android auto and has 3 different displays and multiple buttons. Tesla takes a minimalist approach. Neither is perfect - after 2 years I still miss CarPlay on my Tesla. Whether that matters to you depends on your use. In some ways the buttons and displays are more confusing in the Subaru, but for some things they’re just easier. Having a physical control for the wipers heated seats and defroster is just easier. I’d really like a hybrid of the two, maybe ¾ Tesla and ¼ Subaru.

With the exception of the ride driving the Tesla is more enjoyable. The EV power train is just nicer, hands down. It’s also much more painful to fill up the Subaru than it is to plug in the Tesla. If you’re driving 100 mi per day to work you can probably plan on spending an extra $400/month in gas right now. Of course the Subaru would be cheaper up front. You’ll also likely wait longer for the Tesla, if that’s a factor.

They’re both good cars, but have different strengths and weaknesses.

Two different cars for different purpose and characteristics. Again for the suspension, you are comparing high performance sport CUV rocket with massive sidewall tires with high ground clearance off road capable family wagon with decade behind infotainment system with basic cruise control system.
Also, you don't want to know how consumer reports and JD power make money (from legacy auto makers).

 

[sleepydoc]

Two different cars for different purpose and characteristics. Again for the suspension, you are comparing high performance sport CUV rocket with massive sidewall tires with high ground clearance off road capable family wagon with decade behind infotainment system with basic cruise control system.
Also, you don't want to know how consumer reports and JD power make money (from legacy auto makers).

The OP is comparing a Subaru Outback and MY so you’re criticizing me for comparing my Forester and MY? Sorry, I offended you by making a relevant comparison.

Also, Subaru has more than a ‘basic cruise.’ It has adaptive cruise with lane keep assist. Both work extremely well. The lane keep assist is less capable than AP but does what it’s designed to do and Subaru’s adaptive cruise is clearly superior to Tesla’s TACC.

Well that’s a huge lie.

Thanks for calling me a liar. I’m curious, how do you know, other than being a fanboy that can’t seem handle any criticism of Tesla? The 8 mile number is actually very accurate and actually being a bit generous. Unless you’ve driven my car you have no place or standing to disagree.

I will also say that I have a coworker who has a forester and a model 3. When I mentioned my experience between our cars she said “yeah that’s exactly our experience, too.” So does that make you a liar?

 

[nate704]

The OP is comparing a Subaru Outback and MY so you’re criticizing me for comparing my Forester and MY? Sorry, I offended you by making a relevant comparison.

Also, Subaru has more than a ‘basic cruise.’ It has adaptive cruise with lane keep assist. Both work extremely well. The lane keep assist is less capable than AP but does what it’s designed to do and Subaru’s adaptive cruise is clearly superior to Tesla’s TACC.

I was referring to subaru suv/cuv in general. If I was not clear on it, my apologies. I didn't mean to criticize your post. I drove 2018 Subaru Forester XT for 6 months. Very small car (narrow), plastic everywhere interior, noisy and rattle, decade plus old outdated infotainment system. very stiff ride. it was more like truck than Camry type ride. Forester has much more stiff ride than Outback and Ascent which has very cushy ride for their purpose.
I said "basic" meaning they just work as basic cruise control with added keeping distance and their "lane centering" feature and when working, would bounce left and right constantly, also crossing intersections, lanes merging, fresh pavement & fresh painted lines, etc would prevent it from working. For example, crossing one lane intersection, it stays engaged. If I cross a 2 lane intersection/railroad tracks, some crosswalks - it beeps and shuts down.

 

[nate704]

Thanks for calling me a liar. I’m curious, how do you know, other than being a fanboy that can’t seem handle any criticism of Tesla? The 8 mile number is actually very accurate and actually being a bit generous. Unless you’ve driven my car you have no place or standing to disagree.

I will also say that I have a coworker who has a forester and a model 3. When I mentioned my experience between our cars she said “yeah that’s exactly our experience, too.” So does that make you a liar?

I just came back (just now today) from 70 mile round trip with AP engaged 90% of the trip with no phantom braking event.

 

[WhiteWi]

Well, I am in NJ right now. Drove our brand new Y for 800+ miles GA to NJ and only few slow downs most I knew why system freak out. Your 8 miles hyper ball is straight up bs!

 

[gx9901]

We have a Model Y LR and a 2020 Forester. @ucmndd (and your test drive) is correct - the Subaru adaptive cruise has been flawless for us. Not a single phantom braking event in 8k miles. In my Tesla I’m lucky to get 8 miles. That said, it has been improving, it just still has a long way to go to match Subaru’s system. The interesting thing is they’re both vision based, so While Tesla started having issues with PB when they switched from radar to vision, Subaru has shown that a vision based system can work well.

I don't doubt that you and others who experience a lot of phantom braking in the MY, but I do wonder if location has something to do with it. I don't think I'm a heavy user of AP, but I usually use it on the highway when there are no cars close behind me. In just over 16k miles in my MYP, I have experienced two instances of what I would consider phantom braking on the same stretch of highway going from Woodbury toward Wisconsin, once each direction on the same trip. I do have a Model 3 driving friend who told me he experienced phantom braking earlier this year, seemingly when going under bridge overpass or something. But I haven't asked him about it for a while.

My AP usage is usually on either I-94 between Woodbury and St Paul, or I-494 between Woodbury and Inver Grove Heights. Do you drive in those areas at all? I have never experienced phantom braking in those stretches of highway. Maybe I'm just lucky that I tend to drive in areas that aren't conducive to phantom braking.

 

[sleepydoc]

Well, I am in NJ right now. Drove our brand new Y for 800+ miles GA to NJ and only few slow downs most I knew why system freak out. Your 8 miles hyper ball is straight up bs!

I just drove for 36 miles and had 3 PB events so you’re right, I was exaggerating. It looks like it’s every 12 miles. I’m sorry.

 

[nate704]

I just drove for 36 miles and had 3 PB events so you’re right, I was exaggerating. It looks like it’s every 12 miles. I’m sorry.

you should definitely report to Tesla as this is not normal. you can use the voice control and send "bug report" to Tesla directly as well.

 

[Jersey_guy_202]

I just drove for 36 miles and had 3 PB events so you’re right, I was exaggerating. It looks like it’s every 12 miles. I’m sorry.

Seems highly unusual, maybe you are having hardware issue. Can you share which section of road you are getting PB? I will go test out if it’s close by.

 

[WhiteWi]

Lol this guy. Suspension is terrible, UI is bad after Christmas update, AP is bad vs Subaru. What a joke.

 

[Jersey_guy_202]

We have a Model Y LR and a 2020 Forester. @ucmndd (and your test drive) is correct - the Subaru adaptive cruise has been flawless for us. Not a single phantom braking event in 8k miles. In my Tesla I’m lucky to get 8 miles. That said, it has been improving, it just still has a long way to go to match Subaru’s system. The interesting thing is they’re both vision based, so While Tesla started having issues with PB when they switched from radar to vision, Subaru has shown that a vision based system can work well.

The lane keep assist features are different between the two. Subaru’s is designed to be just that, an assist with continual driver input whereas Tesla’s is more of a driver monitoring. You’re correct that Tesla won’t avoid potholes, though.

From a reliability point, the data (consumer reports and JD power) would say go with Subaru.

Other differences - the suspension in our MY sucks. If you have rough roads the Subaru will give you the better ride, hands down.

Subaru has one of the best AWD systems on the market. My MY has a tendency for the back to slide a bit on slippery roads. I attribute that to a combination of the weight distribution as well as the rear bias in power/motor usage. Having said that, after getting used to how the Y handles it always stays in control an I’m very comfortable driving it in MN.

The two take a very different approach to their interface. Subaru has CarPlay & android auto and has 3 different displays and multiple buttons. Tesla takes a minimalist approach. Neither is perfect - after 2 years I still miss CarPlay on my Tesla. Whether that matters to you depends on your use. In some ways the buttons and displays are more confusing in the Subaru, but for some things they’re just easier. Having a physical control for the wipers heated seats and defroster is just easier. I’d really like a hybrid of the two, maybe ¾ Tesla and ¼ Subaru.

With the exception of the ride driving the Tesla is more enjoyable. The EV power train is just nicer, hands down. It’s also much more painful to fill up the Subaru than it is to plug in the Tesla. If you’re driving 100 mi per day to work you can probably plan on spending an extra $400/month in gas right now. Of course the Subaru would be cheaper up front. You’ll also likely wait longer for the Tesla, if that’s a factor.

They’re both good cars, but have different strengths and weaknesses.

Subaru uses Intel’s MobileEye I believe but it’s pretty basic. We rented an Outback for a week driving from SF to LA and for the most part the adaptive cruise works fine on straight road. But for me I see there are 3 main issues with Subaru:
1. It has trouble keeping car in the center lane and would ping pong too much left and right. The constant shifting is pretty annoying.
2. It has big problem with even just slight curvy road. Can’t even count how many times it veered off to adjacent lane.
3. As far as I know, there’s no automatic adjustment to speed limit. So if you go from 65 mile zone to 55 mile and have max speed set at 70, it will continue to drive at 70. So if you are driving in parts of road with a lot of speed changes you will need to adjust manually every time.
Overall Subaru works perfectly fine. It’s just driver assist, nothing too fancy. I would recommend Outback if you are looking for a cheap, reliable ICE car with loads of space. Really good as a family car. But for me, that car is just way too underpowered and really slow off the line.