The car drives BEAUTIFULLY and I have frequently driven in different Model S cars (my dad and sister both own the Model S, as well as a colleague who introduced us to the Tesla). My acceleration is awesome and I don't feel a drag on the car. The range seems on point with the car (we have traveled over long distances and with stopping at charging stations). The vehicle seems symptom free, except for the rotors warping.
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The car drives BEAUTIFULLY and I have frequently driven in different Model S cars (my dad and sister both own the Model S, as well as a colleague who introduced us to the Tesla). My acceleration is awesome and I don't feel a drag on the car. The range seems on point with the car (we have traveled over long distances and with stopping at charging stations). The vehicle seems symptom free, except for the rotors warping.
Well that's good at least. Although hard to believe a batch of rotors is bad. At least it's not you.Driving style was eliminated.... its the car.
They replaced all 4 rotors and brake pads at the last repair. Said it was a rotor quality control problems. It is crazy really, we barely used the brakes, and the rotors are warping. I don't know much about cars, but I have never thought the rotors were the primary problem... just a symptom of something off with the brake system. My husband and I are over it. The hubby is calling a lawyer (he is so upset right now) so see our options. I have emailed Tesla Help to see how we can move forward getting the car replaced with an equivalent car. It is frustrating spending $80,000 on a car that needs service ever 6 to 8 weeks.
Sad. I understand your frustration. What a pain.
I can't think of anything with the brake system that would cause warping.
All rotors? Or one?
I'm surprised they didn't replace the calipers, but I can't think of how they would cause a problem.
One think I would consider trying is comparing the temp of the rotors after a long drive. . .
Do you meet the requirements for lemon law? I'd file the papers and see what they come up with as a proposal.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Sorry to hear about your continuing issues with the brake system.
You mentioned that they have repeatedly replaced the pads and rotors ... I would insist that they replace the CALIPERS also.
A stuck caliper piston could cause warping issues. Also have them check the entire brake system including the booster and proportioning valves. This is fixable and Tesla should do everything in their power to resolve this before they have a Lemon Law return on their hands. Good luck
Florida Lemon Laws
Florida lemon law requires three attempts to fix or car out of service for 30 days. The catch is the car must be less than 24 months.
The good news is that your in the warranty and they still should be obligated to repair. And this should be fixable.
I'm not sure how about personally would proceed. I would do everything in my power to force replacement of more parts (specifically calipers, maybe hubs). I'm thinking if the hub has a problem it could end up warping the rotors over time. Someone else mentioned proportioning valve(s)s and brake booster.
Florida lemon law requires three attempts to fix or car out of service for 30 days. The catch is the car must be less than 24 months.
The good news is that your in the warranty and they still should be obligated to repair. And this should be fixable.
I'm not sure how about personally would proceed. I would do everything in my power to force replacement of more parts (specifically calipers, maybe hubs). I'm thinking if the hub has a problem it could end up warping the rotors over time. Someone else mentioned proportioning valve(s)s and brake booster.
Lasttoy
Active Member
Pure b.s., I have driven in Fl, Texas, Phoenix, La, SF, Reno, SLC, up to Yellowstone last weekend on this trip. I am a hot rod, Tes has 98k on her. 2013 S. You have bad master cylinder that is not releasing the front pressure, OR bad equalizer valve,
Change master cylinder, front calipers with pads . They are amateurs. Has nothing to do with you. Caliper pucks are NOT retracking at pedal release. Very simple. The front pads are corvette. Ck it out, go to napa. Same calipers as corvette. I bet made by Brembo.
Change master cylinder, front calipers with pads . They are amateurs. Has nothing to do with you. Caliper pucks are NOT retracking at pedal release. Very simple. The front pads are corvette. Ck it out, go to napa. Same calipers as corvette. I bet made by Brembo.
I have the same issue though not nearly as bad as yours. I have a 2012, P85 with 71k miles and have had Tesla 19" wheels that I had powder coated black.
I just posted to another thread that dealt with this. I asked Tesla to give me a definitive answer or cause for this and Engineering mentioned my powder coated wheels. Does your car happen to have powder coated wheels? They believe it may be that the contact area between the wheels and the rotors does not allow heat transfer/dissipation from the rotors to the wheels and thus cuases heat build up.
I am on my third set of rotors.
Until I saw these posts I was certain that it was just my car because Tesla said that they had never seen this before.
So, I have a couple of options:
Option 2 costs me about $12-1400 depending on what kind of discount they are willing to give me for the hassle. They can come get the car, do the work and we see what happens. The thing is that if it happens with the new factory wheels, they would now have to come up with some other suggestions and from now on and it would be on their dime since I also purchased all the extended warranties and would have followed all of their suggestions.
I would like to hear your thoughts and suggestions.
Jorge
I just posted to another thread that dealt with this. I asked Tesla to give me a definitive answer or cause for this and Engineering mentioned my powder coated wheels. Does your car happen to have powder coated wheels? They believe it may be that the contact area between the wheels and the rotors does not allow heat transfer/dissipation from the rotors to the wheels and thus cuases heat build up.
I am on my third set of rotors.
Until I saw these posts I was certain that it was just my car because Tesla said that they had never seen this before.
So, I have a couple of options:
- Take the wheels off and grind the powder coating off on the rotor contact area then put them back on and hope that this now allows the wheels to be heat sinks for the rotors.
- Buy a new set of 19 wheels and see what happens.
Option 2 costs me about $12-1400 depending on what kind of discount they are willing to give me for the hassle. They can come get the car, do the work and we see what happens. The thing is that if it happens with the new factory wheels, they would now have to come up with some other suggestions and from now on and it would be on their dime since I also purchased all the extended warranties and would have followed all of their suggestions.
I would like to hear your thoughts and suggestions.
Jorge
rxlawdude
Active Member
Well, given that I'm on my third set of rotors for warping, and have totally stock 19" wheels (pre-slipstream), I don't think it's that.
Finally I found a thread that is the exact same issue I am having! My car was great for the first couple years then when I hit 50,000 miles I started going through rotors like crazy! Now I’m at 92K miles and am also getting ready to put on my 4th set of rotors in 8 months!
The first time I took it in there the car was under warranty and they replaced the rotors and I told them the brake pedal was squishy and they said that was normal and then I explained that the 5 prior loaner cars that I’ve had had nice tight breaks. One car was even older than mine so they couldn’t blame it on being a older P85 (they tried) Finally they went and drove the car with me and agreed the petal should not be squishy like that.
Two weeks of having the car they kept replacing parts and replacing parts and still could not get the pedal to not be squishy they kept telling me man you’re going to have an entirely new braking system when this is done which I wasn’t mad about.
Several months later another set of rotors replaced under warranty then again now this last time they are not wanting to replace them and I argued I just had the rotors replaced it two months ago look at my driving logs I drive like a grandpa. Finally a guy from EV Tuning Solutions reached out to me and told me there’s several causes on these older cars that can make this happen and he suggested I buy his brake lines that are steel braided they’re on sale for $150 I also ended up buying aftermarket rotors from him the non-corrosive version but I did not get any with slots or drilled. I guess after so many years those brake lines start stretching and then the Pistons sees up as well.
I will update the thread but it may be a while as I am out of town working now I hoped they Would have shown up earlier so I could’ve change them before I went out of town. He also recommended this silicone lubricant that is for ceramic pads and told me to lube up the Pistons real good and also his kids come with the new hardware which I’ve noticed Tesla does not replace when they change the brakes out they use the old hardware still like the pens.
Sorry I know this is getting kind of long but I think there are multiple factors at play here and we’re both fighting the same issue. Is your brake pedal squishy? I’m going to do a full installation/review video on the rotors, new steel braided brake lines, and all ceramic pads and how to get the pistons lubed up and unseized.
Now I know your car is under warranty so you may not want to put those aftermarket brake lines on but I have a feeling that is exactly what’s going on with my car has literally every single breaking component has been replaced already on mine and I’m still having the problem now I know your car is under warranty so you may not want to put those aftermarket brake lines on but I have a feeling that is exactly what’s going on with my car as literally every single breaking component has been replaced already on mine and I’m still having the problem.
If you would consider the aftermarket route and just get the problem fixed completely consider reaching out to EV Tuning Solutions, They are super cool and will help you out with any questions or concerns regardless of whether you buy other stuff or not, they are very knowledgeable about these cars.
Best of luck
The first time I took it in there the car was under warranty and they replaced the rotors and I told them the brake pedal was squishy and they said that was normal and then I explained that the 5 prior loaner cars that I’ve had had nice tight breaks. One car was even older than mine so they couldn’t blame it on being a older P85 (they tried) Finally they went and drove the car with me and agreed the petal should not be squishy like that.
Two weeks of having the car they kept replacing parts and replacing parts and still could not get the pedal to not be squishy they kept telling me man you’re going to have an entirely new braking system when this is done which I wasn’t mad about.
Several months later another set of rotors replaced under warranty then again now this last time they are not wanting to replace them and I argued I just had the rotors replaced it two months ago look at my driving logs I drive like a grandpa. Finally a guy from EV Tuning Solutions reached out to me and told me there’s several causes on these older cars that can make this happen and he suggested I buy his brake lines that are steel braided they’re on sale for $150 I also ended up buying aftermarket rotors from him the non-corrosive version but I did not get any with slots or drilled. I guess after so many years those brake lines start stretching and then the Pistons sees up as well.
I will update the thread but it may be a while as I am out of town working now I hoped they Would have shown up earlier so I could’ve change them before I went out of town. He also recommended this silicone lubricant that is for ceramic pads and told me to lube up the Pistons real good and also his kids come with the new hardware which I’ve noticed Tesla does not replace when they change the brakes out they use the old hardware still like the pens.
Sorry I know this is getting kind of long but I think there are multiple factors at play here and we’re both fighting the same issue. Is your brake pedal squishy? I’m going to do a full installation/review video on the rotors, new steel braided brake lines, and all ceramic pads and how to get the pistons lubed up and unseized.
Now I know your car is under warranty so you may not want to put those aftermarket brake lines on but I have a feeling that is exactly what’s going on with my car has literally every single breaking component has been replaced already on mine and I’m still having the problem now I know your car is under warranty so you may not want to put those aftermarket brake lines on but I have a feeling that is exactly what’s going on with my car as literally every single breaking component has been replaced already on mine and I’m still having the problem.
If you would consider the aftermarket route and just get the problem fixed completely consider reaching out to EV Tuning Solutions, They are super cool and will help you out with any questions or concerns regardless of whether you buy other stuff or not, they are very knowledgeable about these cars.
Best of luck
rxlawdude
Active Member
I have to provide an update: the third rotor replacement (mentioned above) in my 70D seems to have fixed the problem. With another 25K miles on them, they are still good.
I wonder if wheel balancing might play a part in this. It's not the 21" wheels, clearly. It's not the 19" wheels, either, that seem to be associated with the problem. And it does seem to be relatively rare.
I wonder if wheel balancing might play a part in this. It's not the 21" wheels, clearly. It's not the 19" wheels, either, that seem to be associated with the problem. And it does seem to be relatively rare.
Tech_Guy
ALWAYS IN LUDICROUS MODE! P90D>P100D Upgrade
Personally id guess your rotors are fine... In fact id suspect most Teslas are fine due to the lack of heavy use... What your feeling is brake judder due to a lack of proper bed-in procedure with a new brakes... Thats also why some people above are noting multiple replacements over time. Tesla doesn't mention anything about this in the manual so you didn't miss anything there. If you look online about how to properly bed-in your brakes you will find lots of info. Im going to copy and paste the important bits below from 2 websites on proper Bed-In Procedures.
I’ve also highlighted in red the explanation as to why this occurs
https://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=85
Brake Pad & Rotor Bed-In Procedures
All brake pads must be bedded-in with the rotor they will be used against to maximize brake performance. The bedding-in process involves a gradual build up of heat in the rotors and pad compound. This process will lay down a thin layer of transfer film on to the rotor surface. Following the bed-in procedures provided by the manufacturer will assure a smooth, even layer of transfer film on the rotor and will minimize brake judder.
Failure to follow these procedures may result in brake judder, excessive noise, or other difficulties in bedding-in the new brake pads. The pads need a fresh surface to lay down an even transfer film. Residue from the previous pad compound on the surface or an irregular surface on a used rotor will cause the pads to grip-slip-grip-slip as they pass over the rotor surface under pressure. The resulting vibration will cause noise and telegraph vibrations through the suspension and steering wheel. This vibration is known as brake judder or brake shimmy. This is typically caused by an uneven transfer film on the rotor surface or an uneven surface on the rotor not allowing that transfer film to develop evenly. This is often misdiagnosed as a warped rotor.
Tesla uses brembo brakes heres the procedure to bed-in your brakes properly. Try this to fix your issue!
BREMBO
In a safe area, apply brakes moderately from 60mph to 30mph and then drive approximately 1/2 mile to allow the brakes to cool. Repeat this procedure approximately 30 times.
And heres another article on the issue http://www.formuladynamics.com/brembobedin.php
Brembo Bed-In Technique
The bedding procedure is an important step with new rotors and pads.
Correctly bedded pads form a transfer layer of material on the surface of the disc which improves overall "bite" and performance. Without proper "pre-bedding" that simulates the correct heat and torque loads seen in actual driving conditions, a pads true potential cannot be realized. This process will also ensure that the pads will produce a rotor finish with a consistent transfer layer which prevents "judder" from occurring.
It is very important to follow proper brake bedding procedure following installation. This is necessary not only for optimum performance of the system, but also to avoid onset of judder (vibration felt through brake and steering).
The discs are delivered with a thin zinc coating to prevent corrosion. Prior to beginning the bedding procedure, this plating must be removed from the braking surfaces by driving the car slowly (under 30mph) and performing very light brake applications in order to remove the plating without generating heat. With too much heat or pedal pressure, this plating can be deposited unevenly on the disc, and impregnated into the pad, further increasing the likelihood of judder development. Once a visual inspection of the braking surfaces confirms that the plating has been evenly removed, begin with the bedding procedure as specified below.
Drive vehicle to a remote area and perform at least 30 brake applications of 3 second duration. Use light/ medium deceleration with varying starting speeds. Leave at least mile between each brake application. The purpose of this procedure is to gradually increase the temperature in the components without thermal shock, and to mate the brake pad and disc friction surfaces. After the repeated stops, drive the vehicle for several miles with little or no braking in order to adequately cool the components. The system is now ready for normal use
NOTE: This entire procedure must be complete before driving the vehicle as normal. It is especially important that this process is completed before any extended same-speed driving is done (i.e. freeway travel). Failure to follow these instructions greatly increases the likelihood of judder development
I’ve also highlighted in red the explanation as to why this occurs
https://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=85
Brake Pad & Rotor Bed-In Procedures
All brake pads must be bedded-in with the rotor they will be used against to maximize brake performance. The bedding-in process involves a gradual build up of heat in the rotors and pad compound. This process will lay down a thin layer of transfer film on to the rotor surface. Following the bed-in procedures provided by the manufacturer will assure a smooth, even layer of transfer film on the rotor and will minimize brake judder.
Failure to follow these procedures may result in brake judder, excessive noise, or other difficulties in bedding-in the new brake pads. The pads need a fresh surface to lay down an even transfer film. Residue from the previous pad compound on the surface or an irregular surface on a used rotor will cause the pads to grip-slip-grip-slip as they pass over the rotor surface under pressure. The resulting vibration will cause noise and telegraph vibrations through the suspension and steering wheel. This vibration is known as brake judder or brake shimmy. This is typically caused by an uneven transfer film on the rotor surface or an uneven surface on the rotor not allowing that transfer film to develop evenly. This is often misdiagnosed as a warped rotor.
Tesla uses brembo brakes heres the procedure to bed-in your brakes properly. Try this to fix your issue!
BREMBO
In a safe area, apply brakes moderately from 60mph to 30mph and then drive approximately 1/2 mile to allow the brakes to cool. Repeat this procedure approximately 30 times.
And heres another article on the issue http://www.formuladynamics.com/brembobedin.php
Brembo Bed-In Technique
The bedding procedure is an important step with new rotors and pads.
Correctly bedded pads form a transfer layer of material on the surface of the disc which improves overall "bite" and performance. Without proper "pre-bedding" that simulates the correct heat and torque loads seen in actual driving conditions, a pads true potential cannot be realized. This process will also ensure that the pads will produce a rotor finish with a consistent transfer layer which prevents "judder" from occurring.
It is very important to follow proper brake bedding procedure following installation. This is necessary not only for optimum performance of the system, but also to avoid onset of judder (vibration felt through brake and steering).
The discs are delivered with a thin zinc coating to prevent corrosion. Prior to beginning the bedding procedure, this plating must be removed from the braking surfaces by driving the car slowly (under 30mph) and performing very light brake applications in order to remove the plating without generating heat. With too much heat or pedal pressure, this plating can be deposited unevenly on the disc, and impregnated into the pad, further increasing the likelihood of judder development. Once a visual inspection of the braking surfaces confirms that the plating has been evenly removed, begin with the bedding procedure as specified below.
Drive vehicle to a remote area and perform at least 30 brake applications of 3 second duration. Use light/ medium deceleration with varying starting speeds. Leave at least mile between each brake application. The purpose of this procedure is to gradually increase the temperature in the components without thermal shock, and to mate the brake pad and disc friction surfaces. After the repeated stops, drive the vehicle for several miles with little or no braking in order to adequately cool the components. The system is now ready for normal use
NOTE: This entire procedure must be complete before driving the vehicle as normal. It is especially important that this process is completed before any extended same-speed driving is done (i.e. freeway travel). Failure to follow these instructions greatly increases the likelihood of judder development
Are you still having this issue? We are on our 4th set of rotors and thought out vehicle was the only one with this ongoing problem! We have contacted a lawyer since they can’t seem to figure out how to remedy it. I am waiting for them to complete a safety inspection to see what they have to say.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Went through 5 sets of rotors for the first S in less than 65,000 miles. Have a look inside the wheels (center) and make sure there's no residual (rhymes with crap) in there. Once that was cleaned out, I didn't need rotors any more.
As an aside, there was also a foreign piece of metal in the wheel casting itself for one wheel. Envision "there's chocolate in my peanut butter!" if you recall the Reese's commercials - it looked like that. Which probably didn't help matters.
Did your S have powder coated wheels by chance? They completed the safety inspection, and after many different theories - they have decided it is because of the powder coated wheels. They are saying there is residue aka gunk inside the lug but threads. And the inside of the wheel was apparently powder coated or dipped - causing the back pad not to align properly. They suggested replacing the warped rotors again, and putting factory wheels on to see if that will finally stop the rotors from warping. I am not entirely convinced this is the underlying issue. Has anyone else heard of this?
Yes someone else reported that same thing and I haven't seen them back since they dealt with the powder coating on the back of the wheels.
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