NEMA 14-50 vs 14-30?

[roblab]

I installed a 14-50 2 1/2 years ago. Had a neighbor walk over to double check my installation (He was a So. Calif. Edison manager). I then paid the city to come over and approve the installation. I don't need fast charging. The 14-50 works perfectly for my needs.

Your post gave me some concern. So, this Thursday, I have an electrician (Tesla approved) stopping by to look at my system and give me an estimate to install Tesla's Wall Connector and I'll ask him if my set up is safe.

Don't want to wake up one evening to discover the house is burning down around me.

I have installed my own charging systems for every home I've lived in for the past ten years. I'm NOT an electrician, but their knowledge is not a secret. I charge both my S and my 3 in my garage, and I'll leave it to worriers to wonder if I know what I'm doing. I wired my own garage and have wired several houses in my younger days. It's not magic, it's simple physics. I never had Tesla approve anything and I charge my S and my 3 there all the time. Even more interesting for those who like to worry, I don't need a permit to do what I've done, and my system has worked for everything from my RAV4EV to my Ses and my 3. You don't have to be an electrician to know what you're doing, and there are electricians who scare me. I don't mean to brag, but wiring is not a secret, and where I live I am allowed to wire for charging my cars.

If you think there's a chance you'll discover your house burning down around you, you definitely need an electrician.

 

[terranx]

Yes, it is 6 gauge THHN hot with 10 gauge THHN ground. Jim must have 6-3 ROMEX which would be perfect for a 4 wire 14–50 outlet but not good enough for the wall connector, which is why the electrician said 6 gauge THHN is needed. The sizing of the wires in the ROMEX 6-3 isn’t the problem, it’s the exterior sheathing and lack of heat dissipation. If you took all of the wires out of the ROMEX 6-3 sheathing, you could use the 6 gauge ones as they are simply THHN wires. The ground is 10 gauge but it is just bare copper so it is not a THHN wire.

The romex would be fine for a wall connector. You’d just have to configure the wall connector to 50A instead of 60A

 

[Jeremy3292]

The romex would be fine for a wall connector. You’d just have to configure the wall connector to 50A instead of 60A

While that is true a lot of local codes do not allow for that as anyone can reconfigure it at any time to 60 amps which would be very unsafe.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The romex would be fine for a wall connector. You’d just have to configure the wall connector to 50A instead of 60A

If you are doing this by permit however, some jurisdictions don't allow this for the wall connector that is software configured. I remember this issue was brought up in a thread, and was one of the negatives of switching away from DIP switches that existed in the older versions.

 

[JimShaw]

Yes, it is 6 gauge THHN hot with 10 gauge THHN ground. Jim must have 6-3 ROMEX which would be perfect for a 4 wire 14–50 outlet but not good enough for the wall connector, which is why the electrician said 6 gauge THHN is needed. The sizing of the wires in the ROMEX 6-3 isn’t the problem, it’s the exterior sheathing and lack of heat dissipation. If you took all of the wires out of the ROMEX 6-3 sheathing, you could use the 6 gauge ones as they are simply THHN wires. The ground is 10 gauge but it is just bare copper so it is not a THHN wire.

I just watch a few YouTube videos on how to install the Tesla Wall Connector.

What I am surprised about is how easy the connector is to install. It's actually easier than installing a 14-50 with 3 wire and a ground wire where as the connector uses 2 wires and a ground.

One installer on YouTube used a 3-6 gauge. He cut the bare 10 gauge ground back and used the three 6 gauge wires. The black, red and for the ground he used the 6 gauge white vs the copper bare 10 gauge..

I showed my neighbor (who was a field manager for So. Cal Edison). He said that installation is easy to do and he would be willing to help if I went that way which would cut out the $547 to have it professionally installed.

Now that I have installing the Tesla Wall Connector cost down to $541.25 after tax vs $1000, would you still say, install the 14-50 Bryant? It would cost me $468 more to install the Tesla over the 14-50 Bryant

The only reason that I would install the Tesla connector is because........really no reason. Only because it was a Tesla product and fun to have done it.

I'll still probably end up installing the Bryant. I'll know next Tuesday when the Bryant 14-50 arrives at the store.

The Tesla I sold in December was a SR and would not benefit from the Wall Connector charging speed. What I have now is the Performance which could benefit from the speed.

Anything in the above note sway your thought away from the Bryant to the Tesla connector? Or save the $468 and do something else with it??

 

[terranx]

If it were me, I'd save the money for now. Would be easy to convert to a wall connector down the line if you decide you'd want that for whatever reason (traveling enough that it's a pain to keep removing your mobile connector or stuff like that).

If you do end up using the wall connector, no reason not to use the bare ground. I'd rather that than repurpose a neutral wire for a ground (while electrically that's sound if the connection is coming from a main panel it could cause confusion in the future). You could just wire nut the neutral and tuck that away.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Now that I have installing the Tesla Wall Connector cost down to $541.25 after tax vs $1000, would you still say, install the 14-50 Bryant? It would cost me $468 more to install the Tesla over the 14-50 Bryant

The only reason that I would install the Tesla connector is because........really no reason. Only because it was a Tesla product and fun to have done it.

I'll still probably end up installing the Bryant. I'll know next Tuesday when the Bryant 14-50 arrives at the store.

The Tesla I sold in December was a SR and would not benefit from the Wall Connector charging speed. What I have now is the Performance which could benefit from the speed.

Anything in the above note sway your thought away from the Bryant to the Tesla connector? Or save the $468 and do something else with it??

That's up to you Jim. You are right though, the wall connector really isn't hard to install. If you enjoy fun projects like this and don't mind spending the $500 for the Tesla wall connector then go ahead and do it. I do fun projects around my house all the time just bc I enjoy it, not bc it is cost effective. However, with the new Bryant outlet you are definitely good to go with the 14-50 setup.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

@JimShaw

I didn't see specifically, but I believe you're using the TMC with an N14-50 adapter? So that's 32a / 7.7kW, and the TWC would be as much as 48a / 11.5kW, so you'd be looking at like 30 vs. 44 miles / hour charge.

Once you get to a decent L2 at home, even 32a is fast, when you're talking overnight / several hours, the 14 miles / hour difference, probably won't make a difference to you.

For for us, one of our "big drives" is to Total Wine, that's ~70 miles, with the TMC that's about 2h 20m recovery, the TWC would be about 1-1/2 hours, that would affect me for additional use that day, or certainly not the next day (we're actually on 40a so we'd actually have 1:45 for recovery).

I guess the bottom line, since you're on a Tesla EVSE that part isn't an upgrade (like moving from a J/generic), and the additional rate probably makes no difference __and__ you already have an outlet that just needs a 15 minute "fix" - I'd stick with what you have.

 

[Msjulie]

FWIW I did this and bought an eBay sourced 2nd mobile charger for myself and my sister

• Original mobile connector in the car(s) cause unreasonable paranoia
• 14/50 outlet added to the garage(s)
• eBay supplied Model Tesla charger (from S for me, 3 for her) with 14/50 plug end
• Inexpensive bracket https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08D3CGV7W

For our use cases (your mileage may vary) this was the least expensive way to get set up at home. It very much depends on what it costs you to get the 2nd mobile charger and availability (Tesla vs preowned) and what you want. I was lucky to get a really good price on my Model S (48amp) mobile charger a few years back but could only find the 3 variant for her in our time window (last December). The mobile chargers are not ever unplugged though they could be if required.

Again really depends on your needs but this made a tidy install, lowest cost w/a little more effort on my end and the benefit of the Tesla charger end for all that push button goodness

In our house we also have a hybrid and it already had it's JuiceBox all plumbed in 'cause we don't share chargers. Luckily the house can support this use even though the hybrid could easily top off with 110 overnight, tiny battery.

Good luck in your decision making.

 

[JimShaw]

Jeremy3292
MaskedRacerX
Msjulie
terranx


I have made my decision

I have had a Home Depot Nema 14-50 charging my model 3 SR for 2 + years and have NOT had any problems in regards to needing a faster charger, malfunctions, etc.

Since the 14-50 is already installed and a new replacement 14-50 (Bryant) has been ordered and on its way along with a new wall cover plate and I really don't need a WiFi connection to the Tesla Wall Connector; I will NOT install a Tesla Wall Connector and save an estimated $468

My guess is, why I was excited about installing the Tesla Wall Connector is because I'm a Tesla fan boy and a new M3 Performance is now sitting in the garage but all of you helped keep me on the straight and narrow.

Thank You

I pick up the new Bryant 14-50 this Tuesday and looking forward to the fun of installing

 

[JimShaw]

it’s $46 in the link I shared earlier and also below again:

Click here

Jeremy3292

As I mentioned I did order the Bryant 14-50 for $46 from Grainger, model is 9450FR

While looking around Grainger's web site, I noticed that they also have a Hubbell 14-50, model 9450A. But here is a strange thing: The sales price is $169

I did a comparison between the two and it seems (from my non-electrical expertise) the only difference between the two is the Hubble also can connect from the side.

If they are basically the same, possibly made by the same company, why such a big difference in pricing??

 

[Jeremy3292]

Jeremy3292

As I mentioned I did order the Bryant 14-50 for $46 from Grainger, model is 9450FR

While looking around Grainger's web site, I noticed that they also have a Hubbell 14-50, model 9450A. But here is a strange thing: The sales price is $169

I did a comparison between the two and it seems (from my non-electrical expertise) the only difference between the two is the Hubble also can connect from the side.

If they are basically the same, possibly made by the same company, why such a big difference in pricing??

No idea why, maybe the Hubbell brand is more well known and the Bryant brand caters to a different clientele. Could also be manufactured in different places with different sourcing. The quality and build is virtually the same though like you said. The Bryant outlet used to be like $25 pre-pandemic whereas the Hubbell one was always around $90-$100.

Pricing is also wildly different these days. Grainger has the Bryant 14-50 for $46 but other websites have it for $90. Grainger has the Hubbell for $169 but other websites have it for $120. Just weird times for pricing comparisons across different vendors.

 

[JimShaw]

No idea why, maybe the Hubbell brand is more well known and the Bryant brand caters to a different clientele. Could also be manufactured in different places with different sourcing. The quality and build is virtually the same though like you said. The Bryant outlet used to be like $25 pre-pandemic whereas the Hubbell one was always around $90-$100.

Pricing is also wildly different these days. Grainger has the Bryant 14-50 for $46 but other websites have it for $90. Grainger has the Hubbell for $169 but other websites have it for $120. Just weird times for pricing comparisons across different vendors.

I agree 100%

Thanks for all of your help