Netzero App

[miimura]

Here's my situation: I normally use TBC with the schedule and rates set exactly according to my utility rate schedule. This works fine when there isn't a lot of surplus production. Now that I have expanded my solar array and it's generating a lot of surplus, I want to discharge more from the battery overnight from Midnight to the start of solar production in the morning. I have been doing this by changing to Self Powered after sundown. The only gotcha is that I don't want to discharge Powerwalls when I am charging a car during those overnight hours. When I do it manually, I know whether I will be charging a car or not.

Here's my desired automation: At 10pm, change to Self Powered mode. If the PW discharge exceeds 2kW between midnight and 9am, change to TBC mode. If the PW discharge drops to less than 2kW for 15 minutes during the same hours, change back to Self Powered mode. At 2pm, change to TBC mode.

I don't see any triggers based on PW charge or discharge rate, only SOC. I don't have a Wall Connector, so I don't know what that might contribute to my situation.

Any ideas?

 

[gsdubs]

Here's my situation: I normally use TBC with the schedule and rates set exactly according to my utility rate schedule. This works fine when there isn't a lot of surplus production. Now that I have expanded my solar array and it's generating a lot of surplus, I want to discharge more from the battery overnight from Midnight to the start of solar production in the morning. I have been doing this by changing to Self Powered after sundown. The only gotcha is that I don't want to discharge Powerwalls when I am charging a car during those overnight hours. When I do it manually, I know whether I will be charging a car or not.

Here's my desired automation: At 10pm, change to Self Powered mode. If the PW discharge exceeds 2kW between midnight and 9am, change to TBC mode. If the PW discharge drops to less than 2kW for 15 minutes during the same hours, change back to Self Powered mode. At 2pm, change to TBC mode.

I don't see any triggers based on PW charge or discharge rate, only SOC. I don't have a Wall Connector, so I don't know what that might contribute to my situation.

Any ideas?

Consider enabling Export Everything to ensure PW is drained to reserve?

 

[offandonagain]

I tried to use the web app for the first time today and repeatedly got "error=missing_scope" after being directed to the Tesla login page and completing my login and permissions.

Edit: then I tried the iOS app and got a page that said "Error: missing required Profile or Energy Product permissions" I then hit the Retry link on that screen. I initially did not allow the Profile information, but the second time around, I did, but it still redirected me back to the Sign In page. One more login, then it worked. Quite a hassle.

Hm, you should've gotten the same "missing required permissions" error on web. I agree it's a hassle, but unfortunately Tesla's authentication implementation makes this difficult. Netzero only uses the email address from the Profile permission, and there isn't much else information available in the profile anyways.

 

[offandonagain]

I don't see any triggers based on PW charge or discharge rate, only SOC. I don't have a Wall Connector, so I don't know what that might contribute to my situation.

Any ideas?

With a Wall Connector, you can add an automation based on EV charging status. I plan on adding a home usage threshold as a heuristic for EV charging, similar to how you described it.

In the meantime: if your EV charging schedule is predictable, you could keep TBC on only at certain hours of the night (and maybe only certain days of the week).

 

[miimura]

With a Wall Connector, you can add an automation based on EV charging status. I plan on adding a home usage threshold as a heuristic for EV charging, similar to how you described it.

In the meantime: if your EV charging schedule is predictable, you could keep TBC on only at certain hours of the night (and maybe only certain days of the week).

Ideally the solution should work for Tesla and non-Tesla vehicles. Our grid charging is random because I mostly charge my non-Tesla vehicle at the office at a discounted rate and the Tesla charges mostly with the Charge on Solar feature. That’s why I wanted an automation that could detect the charging in a universal way.

I will probably just use the automation to make the scheduled mode change and override when I know I will charge a car.

 

[offandonagain]

Ideally the solution should work for Tesla and non-Tesla vehicles. Our grid charging is random because I mostly charge my non-Tesla vehicle at the office at a discounted rate and the Tesla charges mostly with the Charge on Solar feature. That’s why I wanted an automation that could detect the charging in a universal way.

The "home usage threshold" based automation will work for any EV/EV charger combo once it's ready.

The Wall Connector integration was just easier to add, and gives a more reliable signal for EV charging status. With a Universal Wall Connector, you can also use it with non-Tesla EVs.

 

[miimura]

The "home usage threshold" based automation will work for any EV/EV charger combo once it's ready.

The Wall Connector integration was just easier to add, and gives a more reliable signal for EV charging status. With a Universal Wall Connector, you can also use it with non-Tesla EVs.

That's great. If Tesla would support Charge on Solar for non-Tesla vehicles with the Universal Wall Connector by modulating the pilot signal, I would buy one immediately.

 

[gmtom1]

Sorry if I should search or this is a dumb question, but why don't I see anything when I select "Vehicle" in the graph drop down? There's also no vehicle graph in the "Overall" dashboard.

 

[offandonagain]

Sorry if I should search or this is a dumb question, but why don't I see anything when I select "Vehicle" in the graph drop down? There's also no vehicle graph in the "Overall" dashboard.

Thanks for the report, I'm investigating this. Tesla has been making some changes with vehicle data, the data intermittently disappears from the Tesla app as well. And access to vehicle chart data has unfortunately been unreliable for third-party apps.

 

[SteveO332]

Wish list: Add Netzero to the Umbrel store.

 

[LiBeRtAs]

I just downloaded this app. I see "add automation" option, at this point I dont have permission to operate/export (PG&E) and I havent tapped that button yet and what happens when I do? Does it allow me to control things like "self-powered or time of day" stuff? I dont want to make a mistake and mess anything up.

 

[Jreichart]

I have 5 tesla powerwall 3's I typically run off grid because of unresolved issue with FPL Florida Power and Light. I notice that as my powerwalls approach 100% charge they switch back to on-grid is there a way to prevent this?

 

[offandonagain]

Wish list: Add Netzero to the Umbrel store.

A self-hosted model won't work for Netzero unfortunately. The app has its own Tesla Fleet API credentials that can't be shared with users. For self hosting, I would recommend Powerwall-Dashboard or Home Assistant.

I just downloaded this app. I see "add automation" option, at this point I dont have permission to operate/export (PG&E) and I havent tapped that button yet and what happens when I do? Does it allow me to control things like "self-powered or time of day" stuff? I dont want to make a mistake and mess anything up.

It allows you to configure everything the Tesla app does, but none of those options are relevant before PTO. I would suggest you just keep your system in self-consumption mode.

I have 5 tesla powerwall 3's I typically run off grid because of unresolved issue with FPL Florida Power and Light. I notice that as my powerwalls approach 100% charge they switch back to on-grid is there a way to prevent this?

I think you should check with Tesla why this happens, Netzero can't help here. It can happen if your Powerwalls can't support home usage, but with 5 PW3s that would require over 55kW usage which seems unlikely. What happens if you go off grid by switching off the service breaker?

 

[YRide]

Thanks for the report, I'm investigating this. Tesla has been making some changes with vehicle data, the data intermittently disappears from the Tesla app as well. And access to vehicle chart data has unfortunately been unreliable for third-party apps.

I’m same as @gmtom1 . I also can’t see my Tesla vehicle data in the dedicated NZ screen, nor the overlay in the main dashboard.

I’ll note that for the last several months…I’ve noticed that very frequently (but not 100% of the time) that when I pull up the Tesla app I cannot see my vehicle data in it either, and then if I leave the screen open, like 2-5min later…the data is now there.

Sometimes the vehicle data (red) will appear as one with the home data (so be in blue, when I can tell it’s clearly a vehicle charge). And then a few min later..or maybe the next day when I checked, it’s now separated out into the correct home and vehicle pulls.

Could this be due to having multiple vehicles (3 Y’s)?

Or could it be due to inconsistent Wall Connector online status? I frequently see those as not communicating in the app when I first fire the Tesla app up.

 

[YRide]

Wow! @offandonagain super impressive work. I was playing around with the app several months ago, just after I decided ChargeHQ wasn’t really worth it compared to the ever increasing ability of Tesla app + CoS feature. NZ was pretty cool then, but automations were not capable enough yet for what I needed…or maybe I just preferred to keep in a single app still. Looks like you’ve done phenomenal work in only a few months. Kinda surprised Tesla is not just hiring you to run their app or at least buying your IP.

Anyways, nicely done!

Wondering if you or maybe someone here can short cut me on a quick answer if my scenario can be managed with the current capabilities in NZ?

TL;DR - I’m about the get my PGE annual true up and am probably going to be hit by high NBC’s. I think Netzero may help me mitigate this next year.

Util: PGE
Rate: EV2A (so largest peak / off-peak spread)
PV: 11kW Tesla w GW2
ESS: 2x PW+ and 2x PW2, PTO+GC+EE all “on”
Current ESS Config: TOU, only slight tweaks to EV2A rate plan, 0% reserve on normal, 0% reserve on VPP
Vehicle: 3x MY, all set to CoS (30% guaranteed and 90% on solar)
EV charging HW: 2x wall connectors

Overall, I’m a substantial net consumer of kWh per annum (technically mWh) due to the multiple EV’s. However, I’m effectively net zero (ha! ) for cost, due to being on NEM2 and using the 4 PW’s to time shift my EE into the peak hours, and also allowing me to never pull home load from grid in peak. If I don’t have enough PV production in winter, I can GC PW’s to 100% SoC and the effectively arbitrage those kWh’s into peak window back onto grid. Unfortunately, PGE is increasing prices overall (which in theory shouldn’t hurt, could even help) but decreasing the EV2A peak/offpeak spread (which does impact the financials negatively)

My quandary, and why I first looked into Netzero several months back, was that I thought I wasn’t fully optimized from the financial perspective. I’m approaching first PGE true up (was supposed to be 6/5 but still don’t have it from them) and it looks like this to be true…my NBC’s minus PCIA minus MDC will far (far!) outweigh my “NEM Charges before taxes”. I got a little overzealous with the PW NEM arbitrage, and it will cost me $$$.

Tesla’s CoS somewhat is improving this, since almost every day one of the EV’s is connected to the wall connector during peak sun. But it would really be better if the PW’s filled up first, and I noticed this isn’t always the case. Also, prob more significant, my PW’s frequently fill to 70-90% SoC during the night using GC, when they really don’t need that, if they just waited a few more hours the sun would take care of it.

So I’m looking for a way to allow the PW’s to GC a bit, to say 50%, right after midnight. Then turn off GC, until maybe 2p in case it needs a final top up. If I leave the PW’s on TOU this whole time…with current PGE EV2A rates, I’m guessing that the PW will try to hit 100% SoC using the only means now available, solar. Does this seem correct. If by chance I have extra PV, it will just get slurped up by one of the EV’s using CoS…so no “wasted” PV exported to the grid prior to 3p should happen.

Is it really that simple?

Any thoughts id better or more robust to set to turn off GC at 1:01a every night (I charge at 22kW) then add another automation to turn GC back on at 2p?

Or is it better to set to turn off GC at 50% SoC, then turn on GC at 2p each day?

Why has Tesla not accommodated this considering they have a lot of PGE customers I would assume? Anyways, thanks again for the app!

 

[offandonagain]

I’m same as @gmtom1 . I also can’t see my Tesla vehicle data in the dedicated NZ screen, nor the overlay in the main dashboard.
[...]
Could this be due to having multiple vehicles (3 Y’s)?
Or could it be due to inconsistent Wall Connector online status? I frequently see those as not communicating in the app when I first fire the Tesla app up.

This recent change is solely because of Tesla, nothing particular about your situation. They made a change and the vehicle data is no longer available for third-party apps. I notified them, so hopefully they will fix this.

 

[offandonagain]

Wow! @offandonagain super impressive work.

Thanks for the feedback!

Is it really that simple?

Any thoughts id better or more robust to set to turn off GC at 1:01a every night (I charge at 22kW) then add another automation to turn GC back on at 2p?

Or is it better to set to turn off GC at 50% SoC, then turn on GC at 2p each day?

You can definitely use automations to manage GC, it's a common use-case. Either approach (time based or 50% SoC) should work. One consideration for the 50% SoC approach is that it could kick in during your 2pm top-off (if your SoC is below 50% and you turn on GC at 2pm, it would get turned off again at 50% SoC). But you're probably not discharging your battery during this time, so this would not be a problem.

Give it a try a let me know if you run into any issues.

 

[YRide]

Will come back shortly with more insights & maybe a few questions into my automation setup. Wasn't as simple as I thought, but might have been a) user error, b) the fact the weather got super weird in SJ yesterday (and today), c) I think I had some instabilities in my system with WIFI, and d) it *seems* like Charge on Solar creates additional complexities.

But I already have a feature request...would it be possible to have a toggle on the "Overall" view that displays the composite colors for each graph? There are times when I'd love to see all 4 (Solar, Home, PW and Grid) on one screen, but would also like to see what components are making up grid export (i.e. how much is Solar vs how much is PW). It might be a little compressed with the limited pixel real-estate...but it would be pretty cool. Then with the toggle you could simplify the view to how it is, if that type of data density isn't needed.