Neurio for new breakers

[mongo]

Do you think my issue is that a configuration change needs to happen to account for moving the CT clips to the main lines rather than on one of these other ones?

Sounds like it. System needs to know the current sense is on the main feed instead of a load. Otherwise, the house loads are measured by both the main sense and the GW sense. Originally it was doing Total Current (derived) = AC + GW. You want it to do: AC+EV (derived) = Total Current (sensed) - GW.
How is solar measured?

 

[Shygar]

Sounds like it. System needs to know the current sense is on the main feed instead of a load. Otherwise, the house loads are measured by both the main sense and the GW sense. Originally it was doing Total Current (derived) = AC + GW. You want it to do: AC+EV (derived) = Total Current (sensed) - GW.
How is solar measured?

Yea that makes sense. That's basically what I am trying to figure out if I have control over it. With my Neurio at the other house, I have an admin panel I can login to and adjust each CT, flip negative and positive, etc. Is there anywhere that I can control that with this Neurio setup with Tesla?

My solar is measured directly in my backup gateway with their own CT clips. I have not moved those.

 

[GenSao]

Hi everyone, so I had the Tesla Wall Connector installed on Jan 4th in that bottom left breaker with a new 60 amp breaker. This past weekend I rented a Model X for a roadtrip and finally got to test my wall connector. With the setup from how Tesla configured my Neurio CT clips (being on the AC only), it did not detect any drain from the wall connector. So I moved the CT clips to be on the main power coming into my panel after the meter (see post #5's picture above, left side shows the two large cables coming into these 3 breakers). After moving it there, it did correctly measure a load while charging the X.

The problem I have now is, after moving it, it seems my numbers are way off. It's showing things like the solar producing 10.4kW (even though I have a max of 6.6kW) and it also shows the solar feeding directly to the grid and nothing to the battery or the house. If I move the CT clips back it seems to go back to normal, but then it's not measuring the load from the wall connector. Since having this discussion I've installed another non-Tesla Neurio in another house so I'm much more familiar with the admin page and such. Do you think my issue is that a configuration change needs to happen to account for moving the CT clips to the main lines rather than on one of these other ones? I've sent an email to [email protected] but nothing yet.

Another thing that has occurred that I was not expecting is that when charging the car overnight, it did draw power from my battery. I didn't think this was possible because the only breaker that is backed up is my house subpanel and not the breaker for the AC or the wall connector. I just didn't think that would happen, but I guess it will feed energy to my entire house even though my whole house isn't theoretically backed up (or so I thought).

1) I am unfamiliar with the details, but perhaps there is some calibration required in the setup. Perhaps there is some interference in the way the wires are connected to the new location that causes a misreading. However unlikely, perhaps you placed the clips in the wrong spot?

2) I believe it is possible. As long as the Tesla gateway is connected to the grid and your non-backed up loads in the main panel, those loads can draw from the battery (as with the grid). If the grid goes down, then the Tesla gateway will isolate the backup loads in your backup load panel. Where was the CT clips when you noticed the Model X draw from the battery?

 

[Shygar]

Here's a quick diagram that may help. @GenSao the yellow box in this picture is where I moved the CT clips, then I started seeing a draw from the Model X (but everything else messed up as described):

 

[SKRGO]

Here's a quick diagram that may help. @GenSao the yellow box in this picture is where I moved the CT clips, then I started seeing a draw from the Model X (but everything else messed up as described):

View attachment 283147

The labels on each of the CTs need to face the power source and away from the breakers.

 

[mongo]

Yea that makes sense. That's basically what I am trying to figure out if I have control over it. With my Neurio at the other house, I have an admin panel I can login to and adjust each CT, flip negative and positive, etc. Is there anywhere that I can control that with this Neurio setup with Tesla?

My solar is measured directly in my backup gateway with their own CT clips. I have not moved those.

Ah, I see the 4 sets of sense leads now. I have zero direct knowledge of configurability, but I think what you attempted is the normal way things are set up, so I expect it will work. Guessing it was easier to connect the CTs to the single load and at the time that was equally functional.
In the short term, you could put the CTs on the EV circuit, since AC is likely not being used much.

 

[SKRGO]

if it will monitor everything. .

If you email "[email protected]" they can upgrade the APP capabilities to monitor other items used within the structure.
I think it was $60-70.00

Neuri Technology Inc.
43 W. Hastings St.
Suite #201
Vancouver BC V6B 1G4
Canada

[email protected]

 

[mongo]

If you email "[email protected]" they can upgrade the APP capabilities to monitor other items used within the structure.
I think it was $60-70.00

Neuri Technology Inc.
43 W. Hastings St.
Suite #201
Vancouver BC V6B 1G4
Canada

[email protected]

Even on a Tesla Powerwall/ Gateway setup?

 

[SKRGO]

Even on a Tesla Powerwall/ Gateway setup?

I do not have the Tesla PW2 yet, but you can load the APP & see if the Neurio Home APP will work with it.

 

[miimura]

@Shygar I suspect that you are confused about what is what in your panels. In my Tesla Gateway enclosure, the "grid" CTs were factory installed by Tesla directly on the transfer switch. I suspect that you moved your solar CTs and that led to the weird results.

In the picture below, my solar CTs have not been installed yet.

 

[GenSao]

Here's a quick diagram that may help. @GenSao the yellow box in this picture is where I moved the CT clips, then I started seeing a draw from the Model X (but everything else messed up as described):
View attachment 283147

Shygar,

In post #24, the original CT location looks like they are monitoring only the AC with the 30A circuit breaker (red). In Post #5, the CTs look like they are in the traditional location to monitor the power flow through the Tesla gateway.

Looks like @mongo is correct. Your home setup is using an additive calculation of your power consumption. I think you'll need Tesla to make modifications to the CT location and configuration. I am not sure how your solar is metered. Is there an third CT for solar? Since your solar panels were installed by Tesla/Solar City, perhaps there is a wireless or direct communication with the inverter?

In my case, the powerwalls directly communicates with the gateway via direct data wire and CTs for solar and total home use in the gateway. Note, my Tesla installer noted that they like to place the Solar and Powerwall breakers as close to each other as possible in the same panel. In my case, they are at the bottom inside the new load center.

 

[Shygar]

Ah, I see the 4 sets of sense leads now. I have zero direct knowledge of configurability, but I think what you attempted is the normal way things are set up, so I expect it will work. Guessing it was easier to connect the CTs to the single load and at the time that was equally functional.
In the short term, you could put the CTs on the EV circuit, since AC is likely not being used much.

@Shygar I suspect that you are confused about what is what in your panels. In my Tesla Gateway enclosure, the "grid" CTs were factory installed by Tesla directly on the transfer switch. I suspect that you moved your solar CTs and that led to the weird results.

In the picture below, my solar CTs have not been installed yet.

View attachment 283151

Hi Miimura, that's interesting. So you are saying the CT clips in the backup gateway are the grid CT clips? I thought those would be the solar ones. How would they measure my solar output correctly by only measuring the breaker for my air conditioner compressor?

 

[Shygar]

If you email "[email protected]" they can upgrade the APP capabilities to monitor other items used within the structure.
I think it was $60-70.00

Neuri Technology Inc.
43 W. Hastings St.
Suite #201
Vancouver BC V6B 1G4
Canada

[email protected]

I did this for my other house, but did not attempt to do it on my powerwall. It was $70 paypal to activate it on the Neurio app. I assumed the Tesla one would work the same way but never asked. That doesn't really help me out here but something I plan on checking into later.

 

[Shygar]

Shygar,

In post #24, the original CT location looks like they are monitoring only the AC with the 30A circuit breaker (red). In Post #5, the CTs look like they are in the traditional location to monitor the power flow through the Tesla gateway.

Looks like @mongo is correct. Your home setup is using an additive calculation of your power consumption. I think you'll need Tesla to make modifications to the CT location and configuration. I am not sure how your solar is metered. Is there an third CT for solar? Since your solar panels were installed by Tesla/Solar City, perhaps there is a wireless or direct communication with the inverter?

In my case, the powerwalls directly communicates with the gateway via direct data wire and CTs for solar and total home use in the gateway. Note, my Tesla installer noted that they like to place the Solar and Powerwall breakers as close to each other as possible in the same panel. In my case, they are at the bottom inside the new load center.

View attachment 283150

Yea that's what I'm thinking as well. I'll try to get a current picture and post it (after this thunderstorm ).

 

[miimura]

Hi Miimura, that's interesting. So you are saying the CT clips in the backup gateway are the grid CT clips? I thought those would be the solar ones. How would they measure my solar output correctly by only measuring the breaker for my air conditioner compressor?

Look at the wiring diagram posted by @GenSao - it clearly shows that there is one set of CTs on the "automatic relay" and another on the "existing solar" circuit. Therefore, I must conclude that what you think is your AC breaker is actually your solar breaker. Everything else in your pictures make perfect sense.

In addition, the top posts on the Gateway switch are the Grid inputs, so those CTs must measure the grid.

 

[GenSao]

@miimura, Shygar's Post #25's shows the CTs after the Tesla gateway outside of the backup sub panel. For Shygar, he is backup only with the AC 30A breaker outside of the backup sub panel (red box). What I understand is that the 20A breaker in Post 25's image was upgraded to 60A breaker for the Tesla Charger.

The wiring diagram I posted, was for my particular installation. I wanted to show the hard wired connection to the Tesla powerwalls to the meter. I apologize for any confusion.

 

[mongo]

Look at the wiring diagram posted by @GenSao - it clearly shows that there is one set of CTs on the "automatic relay" and another on the "existing solar" circuit. Therefore, I must conclude that what you think is your AC breaker is actually your solar breaker. Everything else in your pictures make perfect sense.

In addition, the top posts on the Gateway switch are the Grid inputs, so those CTs must measure the grid.

There are two sets of remote CTs, one set on the 20A breaker in the main panel, the other set are on the solar in the panel below the gateway (you can see four sets of white/black wires with 2 sets going back to main, other two go down to panel where solar connects in post #10). Along with the third set integrated in the GW.

After getting the EV plug, the AC sense + GW sense was no longer the total load. That is why OP needs to move the AC sense to the meter feed (with proper SW configuration)

 

[miimura]

There are two sets of remote CTs, one set on the 20A breaker in the main panel, the other set are on the solar in the panel below the gateway (you can see four sets of white/black wires with 2 sets going back to main, other two go down to panel where solar connects in post #10). Along with the third set integrated in the GW.

After getting the EV plug, the AC sense + GW sense was no longer the total load. That is why OP needs to move the AC sense to the meter feed (with proper SW configuration)

Ok, now I see what's going on. There is some kind of split that is allowing a third pair of CTs to be connected to his Neurio so that the AC load will be added to the Gateway grid measurement even though it is outside the Gateway. The Neurio only has two channels, so they have some additional wiring that you can see in his picture. You would definitely have to change the way it is interpreted or wired because his two CTs that are connected to the same channel are additive. If you move the CT from the 30A breaker to the main feed, then you would be double measuring the grid current going through the gateway - once at the main feed and then again as it passes through the Gateway. I suppose you could just disconnect the CTs that are around the transfer switch terminals and just connect the CTs that are on the main feed, if that's what you want it to measure.

 

[mongo]

Ok, now I see what's going on. There is some kind of split that is allowing a third pair of CTs to be connected to his Neurio so that the AC load will be added to the Gateway grid measurement even though it is outside the Gateway. The Neurio only has two channels, so they have some additional wiring that you can see in his picture. You would definitely have to change the way it is interpreted or wired because his two CTs that are connected to the same channel are additive. If you move the CT from the 30A breaker to the main feed, then you would be double measuring the grid current going through the gateway - once at the main feed and then again as it passes through the Gateway. I suppose you could just disconnect the CTs that are around the transfer switch terminals and just connect the CTs that are on the main feed, if that's what you want it to measure.

Ah! Good observation, so the Gateway and AC TC are in series and sum together to get total load. Might work to only have one set on the main meter feed, but would that annoy the GW in terms of what it thinks it would be backing up?

 

[Shygar]

Actually I only have 2 sets of CT clips. Neurio does have a Y adapter that you can but if you need to split, but that's not what is going on here. I have one set at the transfer switch and one originally on the ac breaker (no clue why, it's not part of the backup gateway). I moved it to the main feed and then I was able to measure the Model X charging.

I think what I'm gonna do is unplug each set of ct clips and see what is doing what. I don't have the Model X anymore so I can't measure that again until I get my 3.