Am having a 240 volt 50 amp tandem breaker added at home this week as my panel is maxed out. Having to run wire from a distant panel thru attic down into a garage wall. Chose the WC for convenience for a 3LR AWD. It seems I’ll be able to charge at best 40A though will typically be overnight anyway and could drop down to 32A. Electrician advised against 60A circuit due to added cost of cable length, thickness of the run. We only have one EV.
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New outlet install, Tesla charger or NEMA 14-50 Plug?
- Thread starter mreynolds767
- Start date
jebinc
Well-Known Member
You could ask the electrician what the cost difference is, then decide?
jebinc
Well-Known Member
FYI - Below is the Tesla HPWC power/mph table for each Tesla model. What's interesting (for the Model 3) is if you divide Total MPH/total Power (in kWs) for each amperage (to get MPH/kW input) you'll find the more power used (input), the lower MPH/kW input you get out of it. While more power means more loss (in heat, etc.), I would have thought the total efficiency of the charge would have been better, net.... 
Now, do the same for the Model S and it's all over the map, but, compared to the Model 3, the Model S gets you less MPH/unit of Power than the Model 3; implying the Model 3 charging circuit/battery is more efficient per unit of power than the Model S.
EDIT: And for reference, below you can find the MPH rates for outlets and adapters. Interesting when you compare the two tables. So, using the HPWC you can get 11 MPH on a 15 amp/120v circuit, but using Telsa the adapter and mobile charger, you only get 3 MPH in a 15 amp/120v outlet? WTF?
Now, do the same for the Model S and it's all over the map, but, compared to the Model 3, the Model S gets you less MPH/unit of Power than the Model 3; implying the Model 3 charging circuit/battery is more efficient per unit of power than the Model S.EDIT: And for reference, below you can find the MPH rates for outlets and adapters. Interesting when you compare the two tables. So, using the HPWC you can get 11 MPH on a 15 amp/120v circuit, but using Telsa the adapter and mobile charger, you only get 3 MPH in a 15 amp/120v outlet? WTF?
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The 11 MPH rate is 15 Amps at 240 Volts. The 3 MPH rate is 15 Amps and 120 Volts.Interesting when you compare the two tables. So, using the HPWC you can get 11 MPH on a 15 amp/120v circuit, but using Telsa the adapter and mobile charger, you only get 3 MPH in a 15 amp/120v outlet? WTF?
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srs5694
Active Member
I don't know about the efficiency of the charging units in the cars, but the Model S is a bigger, heavier, and therefore less efficient vehicle than the Model 3. Thus, for every kWh in the battery, the Model 3 will go further than the Model S, and for every hour of charging at the same kW rate, the Model 3 will go further than the Model S. (Assuming no other variables, like speed, headwind, terrain, etc.) Chances are this is most or all of what you're seeing, although I can't rule out the possibility of charging efficiency improvements in the Model 3.
And for reference, below you can find the MPH rates for outlets and adapters. Interesting when you compare the two tables. So, using the HPWC you can get 11 MPH on a 15 amp/120v circuit, but using Telsa the adapter and mobile charger, you only get 3 MPH in a 15 amp/120v outlet? WTF?
AFAIK, the HPWC operates only at 240v (or thereabouts); its table shows no figures for 120v operation. There's still a discrepancy there, but it's explained by the fact that Tesla's figures for 120v operation using the Mobile Connector are wrong; you can actually get about 5 MPH, not 3 MPH, on 120v/12A (15A circuit).
No, it doesn't imply that.
Yeah, it's this.
To get a better idea of it, try this analogy with gasoline filling. You are using the same supply pump to fill some number of gallons per minute. You have two vehicles you are filling up: a Ford F-250 pickup truck and a Ford Fiesta econobox car. They are getting the same speed of energy input in gallons per minute, but because the Ford Fiesta gets a lot more miles per gallon, it is getting more miles per minute if you want to express the filling rate that way.
jebinc
Well-Known Member
jebinc
Well-Known Member
Yes, if for nothing else, future proofing. Be sure to have them run the white neutral for future use, if needed. Just a suggestion.
jebinc
Well-Known Member
P.S. 3 AWG or 4 AWG wire for the 60 amp circuit? You don't want 6 AWG for that long run. I would assume 4 AWG.
davewill
Active Member
jebinc
Well-Known Member
I was just suggesting in case down the road you want to power more stuff in that area and wanted to up the breaker to 70 or 80 amps (not just for the Tesla). If he uses heavier gauge wire for the 60 amp line like 4 AWG or 3 AWG THHN), you will be able to upgrade to higher amperage down the road. Most would run 4 AWG wire, good for up to 70 amps. Profit padders will run the bare minimum to pass inspection, and would run 6 AWG wire. For my HPWC, a sub panel added and 4 AWG wire was used, just for reference. Good luck!
d21mike
Active Member
I first installed a 14-50 2 years ago with my first Tesla. Now I just got a second Tesla. Both can charge at 48a. I now want to share the 60a breaker. So going to install 2 Wall Charger in load Sharing mode. I wish I had installed a wall charger in the beginning.
darth_vad3r
Well-Known Sith
How long is your commute? 120V charging is actually 67% faster than Tesla advertises in their tables so it might suit you temporarily for a couple weeks, maybe with or without a weekly top up at Supercharger or L2 charger while you shop.
Tesla says 120V 12A (15A breaker) gives you +3mph. I get a smidge over 5mph —12 hours adds 61 miles.
That should be enough to replenish a 40-45 mile round trip commute completely, or to get through a work week of 65-75 miles of round trip commuting with a weekend top up at a SC (or just charging 24 hours on the weekend
)If your round trip is 80 miles or more, I’d look into an RV extension cord.
e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Extension-PowerGrip-Handles-55191/dp/B000BUU5YU
(wxcept not that one which is an RV/trailer one
... assuming you need a 14-30 unless an old dryer pre-1996).Oi, some of these are pricey. You sure 120V won’t suit you for a couple weeks?
310 miles range plus 5 x 60 miles added overnight weekday nights is over 600 miles available rated range, or 122 miles a day. Or 108 for an SR+. Back out 60 miles of buffer and you are still ~100 rated miles available x 5 days.
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LochTes
Member
If speed of overnight charging is of greatest importance to you, the answer is maybe. You will do just fine with a 50 amp circuit and 14-50 outlet in garage if you are able to leave the car plugged in overnight. I bought a Gen 1 charger (for Model S and X) on eBay and get faster charging than the Gen 2 charger that came with my Model 3 LR. Lower install and equipment costs than the hard wired HPWC and no need to leave it behind or pay to uninstall if I move out of current house.
Hoping to revive this thread as I know am in a more immediate need and had some more questions as this becomes a reality.
Thank you for all of the valuable replies thus far.
I think my car is a week away at this point from delivery and I have not done anything yet as I had other things keeping my preoccupied.
Car is the AWD version so it does sound like that could factor into the decision, new 2019 car.
Don’t plan on moving so don’t really care if a plug or build into wall charger
In the garage I have a few outlets (3) and the service is 15 amps. I believe the breaker for the garage is for more than just the garage though so not sure if using it for 80% of that would be too much or not. Would be charging overnight when the house is sleeping.
My dryer has a 30 amp dedicated breaker ; thinking about it though really does not make sense to pay $200 or really anything over $100 on a temp solution so the extension cord idea I don’t think I will pursue.
I don’t know but would guess my main breaker which is 200 amp service could have adding 60 amp more but not sure if anymore than that without increasing above 200 and really don’t want to do that.
Due to the location of my breaker my job is only for a professional, not even entertaining trying to figure a way around that.
I am confused about what comes with the car and what I need to buy.
Not too concerned with possible 2nd electric car at this point as it is years off, something to consider but not a major factor for me.
If I want to plug into existing garage outlet 110 ; that comes with the car, right? But will be very slow.
If I buy the Tesla Wall Charger I don’t need to buy any other cables/adapters I assume but need to buy that and have it installed. Best to run a 60 amp dedicated line but also ok with 50 amp, right? Get pricing for both 50 and 60. Adds $500 cost but will be the fastest charging and gives me future compatibility without need for additional electrical work.
If I opt for an electrician to install a 14-50 outlet than 50 amp line is max I need?
The car comes free with the gen 2 plug I need ?or do I need an adapter for the 14-50 outlet?
and I then have the option of faster charging than gen 2 if I find gen 1 on eBay?
Driving: a lot; 30k miles a year so will be charging often.
As a temp solution for a week or two I could probably use a combo of the 110v, 15 amp outlet in my garage and superchargers as I do have them not far away; not ideal so don’t want that for more than a couple of weeks but better than paying $200 for an extension cord I may never use again
I think that is everything
Thank you for all of the valuable replies thus far.
I think my car is a week away at this point from delivery and I have not done anything yet as I had other things keeping my preoccupied.
Car is the AWD version so it does sound like that could factor into the decision, new 2019 car.
Don’t plan on moving so don’t really care if a plug or build into wall charger
In the garage I have a few outlets (3) and the service is 15 amps. I believe the breaker for the garage is for more than just the garage though so not sure if using it for 80% of that would be too much or not. Would be charging overnight when the house is sleeping.
My dryer has a 30 amp dedicated breaker ; thinking about it though really does not make sense to pay $200 or really anything over $100 on a temp solution so the extension cord idea I don’t think I will pursue.
I don’t know but would guess my main breaker which is 200 amp service could have adding 60 amp more but not sure if anymore than that without increasing above 200 and really don’t want to do that.
Due to the location of my breaker my job is only for a professional, not even entertaining trying to figure a way around that.
I am confused about what comes with the car and what I need to buy.
Not too concerned with possible 2nd electric car at this point as it is years off, something to consider but not a major factor for me.
If I want to plug into existing garage outlet 110 ; that comes with the car, right? But will be very slow.
If I buy the Tesla Wall Charger I don’t need to buy any other cables/adapters I assume but need to buy that and have it installed. Best to run a 60 amp dedicated line but also ok with 50 amp, right? Get pricing for both 50 and 60. Adds $500 cost but will be the fastest charging and gives me future compatibility without need for additional electrical work.
If I opt for an electrician to install a 14-50 outlet than 50 amp line is max I need?
The car comes free with the gen 2 plug I need ?or do I need an adapter for the 14-50 outlet?
and I then have the option of faster charging than gen 2 if I find gen 1 on eBay?
Driving: a lot; 30k miles a year so will be charging often.
As a temp solution for a week or two I could probably use a combo of the 110v, 15 amp outlet in my garage and superchargers as I do have them not far away; not ideal so don’t want that for more than a couple of weeks but better than paying $200 for an extension cord I may never use again
I think that is everything
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jebinc
Well-Known Member
See red responses below
If I opt for an electrician to install a 14-50 outlet than 50 amp line is max I need? It would be a 50 amp circuit with max charging being 32 Amps, using the mobile charger that comes with the M3
The car comes free with the gen 2 plug I need ?or do I need an adapter for the 14-50 outlet? Yes, you need a 14-50 adaptor from Tesla; $35
and I then have the option of faster charging than gen 2 if I find gen 1 on eBay? No, 32 Amps max for the M3 using a mobile charger. HPWC on a 60 amp circuit will get you any charging you want, up to 48 amps max.
If I want to plug into existing garage outlet 110 ; that comes with the car, right? Very slow on a 120v, 15 amp circuit - 3-4 MPH range added
I don’t know but would guess my main breaker which is 200 amp service could have adding 60 amp more but not sure if anymore than that without increasing above 200 and really don’t want to do that. The sum of your breaker amperage can exceed 200 amp service breaker, it's about actual loads and balance across the poles. Consult an electrician for details.
My recommendation, based on you post above: Get the HPWC installed using 4 AWG wire and never look back. This will get you 48 amps charging on a 60 amp breaker. A 50 amp breaker will get you a max of 40 amps charging.
The car comes free with the gen 2 plug I need ?or do I need an adapter for the 14-50 outlet? Yes, you need a 14-50 adaptor from Tesla; $35
and I then have the option of faster charging than gen 2 if I find gen 1 on eBay? No, 32 Amps max for the M3 using a mobile charger. HPWC on a 60 amp circuit will get you any charging you want, up to 48 amps max.
If I want to plug into existing garage outlet 110 ; that comes with the car, right? Very slow on a 120v, 15 amp circuit - 3-4 MPH range added
I don’t know but would guess my main breaker which is 200 amp service could have adding 60 amp more but not sure if anymore than that without increasing above 200 and really don’t want to do that. The sum of your breaker amperage can exceed 200 amp service breaker, it's about actual loads and balance across the poles. Consult an electrician for details.
My recommendation, based on you post above: Get the HPWC installed using 4 AWG wire and never look back. This will get you 48 amps charging on a 60 amp breaker. A 50 amp breaker will get you a max of 40 amps charging.
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