New SDG&E rate: EV-TOU-5

[markb1]

Thanks for your help! I appreciate it.

Unfortunately, when I follow those steps, my data for each day looks like this:

Start Time Duration Value Edit Code Flow Direction TOU
12/18/2017 7:45 PM 15 0 Missing NoTOU

But, if I go into that day, manually, I see the hourly data, for On Peak, Super Off Peak, and Off Peak:

7:00 PM 2.815 0 0

So basically, there is TOU data for each day in there, it just looks like it is not easy to automatically extract. I assume it is because I was not on a TOU plan back then...ie just started solar at the end of August.

I think it should still work without TOU. You should contact SDG&E and see what they say. For comparison, here's a line of data from my meter:

"06331562","9/04/2018","11:45 PM","15","0.17","Direct","","NoTOU"

So the difference is "Value" is non-zero, and "Edit Code" is "Direct". Note that my data shows "NoTOU" even though I've been on TOU for 5+ years.

 

[ka9q]

I've been on EV-TOU-2 for a long time so I switched to EV-TOU-5 as soon as I heard about it. I have solar, but it's a fairly small (2 kW) and old (1999) system. We also have two EVs: a Tesla and a Leaf. So SDG&E's calculator showed I'd come out ahead with the new plan even without grandfathered TOU rate periods. They would have expired soon enough anyway.

Electric bills have two components: an energy charge, essentially the wholesale price of electricity, and a Utility Distribution Company (UDC) charge, SDG&E's markup to deliver that wholesale electricity to you. Real-time wholesale prices in California are typically around 4-5 cents/kWh even during peak periods, so you can see that SDG&E's residential delivery markup is several hundred percent -- or more.

For real-time CA wholesale prices, see http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/prices.aspx

I've looked at a lot of SDG&E tariffs over the years. Each contains a breakdown allocating the bottom-line price between the energy and UDC components, and they always seem quite arbitrary. Sometimes the energy cost is the same for all rate periods and the UDC charge varies; sometimes it's the opposite. TOU metering was supposed to let utilities pass through their actual, real-time wholesale energy costs but we're not there yet. SDG&E instead sets the TOU energy prices in its tariffs and frequently revises them. Who knows what relationship, if any, they have to SDG&E's actual wholesale costs. Maybe they're rationally based on SDG&E's longer-term supply contracts with little dependence on the real-time spot market. Who knows.

Anyway, the key feature of the EV-TOU-5 tariff is that for a fixed $16/mo fee you can buy as much electricity as you want during super-off-peak periods at the low, low bargain UDC markup of only 2.712 cents/kWh. You also get a slight discount on the UDC rate for the other two periods: 15.434 cents vs 16.196 cents for all three rate periods under EV-TOU-2. Such a deal!

But seriously, if you use a lot of super-off-peak electricity (we do), it does seem the way to go even if you have grandfathered solar. On the other hand, SDG&E can change any or all of these numbers at any time by simply revising the tariff, while we're stuck with whatever rate plan we choose for a year.

The PV system that I installed way back in 1999 has a ~10 kWh lead-acid battery bank, about the same as a Tesla Powerwall. My GM EV1 let me get the brand-new EV-TOU-2 rate with a super-off-peak price of only $0.04/kWh (!) so I looked at the economics of battery selling. But I calculated that the peak/super-off-peak price spread was still too small to overcome battery depreciation.

The peak/super-off-peak spread under EV-TOU-5 is much larger than in 1999, so battery selling might finally make sense. On the other hand, lead-acid batteries have gotten a lot more expensive, though they're still cheaper than li-ion for now.

But the real issue with battery selling -- regardless of chemistry -- is battery lifetime. And while I see people doing it with Tesla Powerwalls, I have seen absolutely nothing on the economics of battery depreciation.

 

[RESN8R]

I looking for advice on EV-TOU-5 commitment. It looks right...

We Started up solar this April (2018) and am under DR-SES with the option of changing plans right now. I hovered over EV-TOU-5, wondering what the catch was.

I read all the posts here on the issue, but few people here are as new to solar, Tesla, their homes and usage patterns as i am.
We have an 8.4KW system with a 6KW battery (Sunrun, LG)
The Battery DUMPS at 4PM every day down to 32%
The production shows 20-40KWH/day range in the seasons i have experienced. It has a high SW component peaking at 3PM

We started charging the new Model 3 RWD LR with on a midnight start this week.
I would say it will be a 40 mile/day average home recharge.
Another Tesla is maybe 2 years off for alternating charge days potentially doubling the midnight usage in the far future.
I dont know a lot of the terms used here because of NEVER being on net metering.
People talk of having Peak shifted by going to EV-TOU-5 but as far as i know I have two tiers year round where 4-9PM is peak.
I believe that peak came to the weekends last month when the battery started dumping on Saturday and Sunday also.
To complicate math and history, I just moved here a year ago, and A/C was added this May, and has been used without regard to planetary health.
Its safe to say i used all of the production in the last two months for A/C and the solar only saved me from tiers.
So i know nothing of the past usage, Net Metering, etc, nor do i want to make spreadsheets, or ask the monty gamerunner which card i shoud pick.

I think that I am filling two credit accounts with SDG&E, peak and off-peak.
I think that I get some kind of value based on the time of production, and some kind of charge for the "laundering" of that electricity.
I imagine that the $16/mo for EV-TOU-5 is irreducible by credits. Maybe not.
I dont know what credit bank would be reduced by super off peak, but there would definately not be any production to offset that timing.
I have 6 under the roof using power without schedling it.

Do you think that this evidence points to absolutely gaining from EV-TOU-5, or does history and math need to be done?
Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[montreid]

So an interesting scenario we have:
Solar Setup: 3.8kwh Activated 4/2014 - NEM 1.0 and Grandfathered into EV-TOU2 until 4/2019 - so Peak 12p-6p -
Have Tesla Powerwall 2 on SGIP.
Have Tesla 3 and used 300kwh super-off peak.

I just came across this plan and seriously thinking of using this as the savings on pk/off peak on EV-TOU2 grandfathered is a meager - 0.02 and our smallish array doesn't give too much neutral as we use AC during the day.

With the Powerwall, we're able to shift solar charge and able to support from 4p-9p on battery (even still feed 4p-6p). while taking advantage of super off peak.

Anyone willingly abandon their grandfathered program who have battery shifting? I'm thinking of doing this ASAP unless I'm missing something.

 

[gaswalla]

Switched to TOU5, seems like a great option. Have folks noticed the most random super off peak times in March and April only between 10a-2p? I actually called Sdg&e, the EV specialist said it was due to high solar production midday, but lower consumption as compared to summertime.

 

[ka9q]

That's correct. In the spring, there's a lot of morning-midday solar production but HVAC loads are low. Especially on the weekends.

 

[G35Rocker]

How can you tell if you are on NEM 1 or 2?

 

[markb1]

How can you tell if you are on NEM 1 or 2?

My understanding is that SDG&E reached its NEM cap on June 29, 2016. That means if your interconnection date was before that, you are on NEM (aka NEM 1.0), otherwise you are on NEM-ST (aka NEM 2.0).

 

[markb1]

Also, if you are on NEM-ST, I think you should see something about non-bypassable charges, or NBCs on your bill. That's one of the main differences between NEM and NEM-ST.

 

[G35Rocker]

My understanding is that SDG&E reached its NEM cap on June 29, 2016. That means if your interconnection date was before that, you are on NEM (aka NEM 1.0), otherwise you are on NEM-ST (aka NEM 2.0).

Thanks! I'll have to look at my paperwork to find the interconnection date.

 

[tatties]

can someone point me to the times of peak, non peak and super non peak? and the prices? i can't find a good updated plan anywhere! thanks

 

[wamochi]

can someone point me to the times of peak, non peak and super non peak? and the prices? i can't find a good updated plan anywhere! thanks

go to the middle section of this page to see the Dates/Times of those peak categories: Electric Vehicle Pricing Plans | San Diego Gas & Electric

 

[markb1]

Also, this information is in the PDF that's linked in the first post.

 

[jgd108]

Almost 10 months later, I wonder those who have Solar, Tesla and EV-TOU-5 if they are happy with the move (from EV-TOU-2).
I'm still wondering if worth it because of the $16 min fee which doesn't give you "zero" bill and also the random midday 10a-2p super off peak in peak solar prod.
Thanks! I have 2 months to decide before switching to EV-TOU-5..

 

[SanDiegoM3]

Bumping this for knowledge in SD.

 

[markb1]

Almost 10 months later, I wonder those who have Solar, Tesla and EV-TOU-5 if they are happy with the move (from EV-TOU-2).
I'm still wondering if worth it because of the $16 min fee which doesn't give you "zero" bill and also the random midday 10a-2p super off peak in peak solar prod.
Thanks! I have 2 months to decide before switching to EV-TOU-5..

Bumping this for knowledge in SD.

Well, I ran the numbers (or rather, I let SDG&E run the numbers), EV-TOU-5 was estimated to be the cheapest plan by a few hundred dollars, and that has turned out to be true, so far.

But everyone's situation is unique. Since this plan hurts the payout of solar, people with large solar arrays might not benefit. (For reference, I have an 3 kW array.) I recommend using the SDG&E calculator to determine the best rate plan for your situation.

 

[RandyS]

Almost 10 months later, I wonder those who have Solar, Tesla and EV-TOU-5 if they are happy with the move (from EV-TOU-2).
I'm still wondering if worth it because of the $16 min fee which doesn't give you "zero" bill and also the random midday 10a-2p super off peak in peak solar prod.
Thanks! I have 2 months to decide before switching to EV-TOU-5..

fyi, other rates like EV-TOU2, DR-SES, and DR have a minimum bill provision that works out to be about $10 per month if you don't use that much energy (or are over producing with solar so that you are not consuming from the grid). The EV-TOU5 rate has a $16 monthly service fee that is always constant, but allows you to buy super off peak energy at just above 9 cents per kWh...

The question I always ask drivers/customers at events is "Are you buying energy from the grid? How much?" that will usually lead to the right answer for the best rate...

 

[GoBlue88]

I've been on TOU-5 for a few months, and I have a 4.2 kW solar array. I'm definitely saving money over TOU-2, as my largest electricity consumption by far is from 12:01 am - 1:30 am which is when my car charges. My last bill had 749 kWh of total use. 503 of that (67%) was during super off-peak.

 

[RandyS]

@HappyHappy instead of just hitting disagree, why not post what your question or issue is...I've been working for the utility for 34 years, so I can probably help...

 

[bmms8]

I assume the more you charge at night with TOU5 with two teslas more than makes up for that $16 fee compared to TOU2?

I should mention SDGE was not able to do an analysis as im a newer Tesla household with no prior charging

Thanks