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New solar and Powerwall installation

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
5,989
5,567
Los Altos, CA
I found some clarity on this 5-year issue here: Batteries and Tax Credits

The third private ruling was issued to a solar rooftop company.

The company installs batteries on the same side of the inverter as the solar rooftop systems. The batteries have four possible uses: to store excess solar electricity from the rooftop solar system, store grid electricity at off-peak rates for use during peak hours, reduce demand charges and earn revenue by providing regulation services to the grid. The solar company said it was unable to represent that the batteries would be used mainly to store excess electricity from the rooftop systems. As a consequence, the IRS said the batteries qualify for investment tax credits, but it imposed a “75% cliff.”

A “75% cliff” means that at least 75% of the electricity stored in the year the battery is put in service must come from the grid to be able to claim any investment tax credit. The actual tax credit is the percentage of solar electricity stored that year.

For example, if 80% of the electricity stored in the first 12 months after the battery is installed is solar electricity from the rooftop system, then a 24% investment tax credit — 80% of 30% — can be claimed on the battery. If the percentage drops in any of the next four years, then there is partial or full recapture of the unvested tax credits.

Investment tax credits vest ratably over five years. Thus, for example, if solar electricity accounts for only 75% of electricity stored in year two, then 5% (the 80% first-year use minus the 75% second-year use) of the unvested tax credit must be repaid to the US Treasury. The unvested credit in year two is 80% of the original 24% tax credit.

If the percentage drops below 75% in any of years two through five, then the entire unvested tax credit that year is recaptured.

The way I read this is that you claim the credit entirely in the first year, but if it falls below the thresholds prescribed in the following 4 years, you must return the credit as prescribed.

However, all of these rulings are under Section 48 of the Tax Code for solar equipment put to business use. Residential solar tax credit falls under Section 25D and there have been no IRS rulings under that section of the tax code.
 

prash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
75
26
Olney,IL
More information attached
 

Attachments

  • When is Energy Storage Eligible for the 30 Percent ITC? - Renewable Energy World.pdf
    170.5 KB · Views: 24

novynova

Member
Oct 3, 2017
19
7
New York
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My install was completed this week so if anyone has questions I’m here to help
 

SD_Engnr

Active Member
Mar 24, 2016
1,836
1,489
San Diego
View attachment 279503 View attachment 279504 View attachment 279505 View attachment 279506 View attachment 279507 My install was completed this week so if anyone has questions I’m here to help
Did you use Tesla for the array and Powerwall install? If so, any changes in cost from the quote, to the as-installed configuration? That's one thing I'm uncertain of with how the quote has been worded from Tesla versus other Solar companies. I don't want to choose Tesla because they are "x" dollars cheaper, only to find out that they need to charge me "x+y" to actually do the install. Whereas, the other option has flat out stated that their quote is the price they will charge me no matter what. If they under-quoted, they are forced to eat the cost.
 

novynova

Member
Oct 3, 2017
19
7
New York
Did you use Tesla for the array and Powerwall install? If so, any changes in cost from the quote, to the as-installed configuration? That's one thing I'm uncertain of with how the quote has been worded from Tesla versus other Solar companies. I don't want to choose Tesla because they are "x" dollars cheaper, only to find out that they need to charge me "x+y" to actually do the install. Whereas, the other option has flat out stated that their quote is the price they will charge me no matter what. If they under-quoted, they are forced to eat the cost.
Exactly what they quoted. I changed the location of the powerwall last minute, had the team remove a satellite dish from my roof, and replace a bad circuit breaker and they did it all without an additional charge.
 
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JimVision

Member
Aug 20, 2017
21
40
Colorado, USA
Passed all inspections! System has been on for one week now. Batteries are filling nicely. I especially like the Tesla app and how it shows you the solar electricity generation and where it goes (battery, house, grid).

Really awesome stuff!

Cheers!

Jim
 
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JimVision

Member
Aug 20, 2017
21
40
Colorado, USA
It depends. I drive a Model S. My daily roundtrip commute is 27 miles. Depending on weather, that's about 10 kWh. Since I have two Powerwall 2 batteries, it will store a total of 27 kWh. In this case, I can easily top-off my car on a daily basis, so long as I have 10 kWh of juice in my batteries.

But all is dependent on the sun. This past week it's been sunny here and my batteries have been full. My house and my car, for this past week, have been entirely powered by our Sun. Riding on photons! ;-)

Reminder: My Model S can draw electricity at a max of 48 amps (the default). I needed to reduce that to 32 amps so that it would not draw power too quickly. The combined 2 Powerwall 2's can only provide a max of 10 kW at a time. If I let my Model S draw at it's max, then it will draw 10 kWh from the Powerwall 2's and about another 1+ kWh's from the grid. I try not to draw from the grid if possible. It takes a little longer to charge the Model S, but it has all night, so it's no problem for me.

Hope that helps!

Jim
 

SD_Engnr

Active Member
Mar 24, 2016
1,836
1,489
San Diego
I am thinking about getting a MX. When do you charge your MS? If doing it at night, will it drain all the energy from PW?

This will also depend on how you have your load panel set up. If you choose to have the car charging circuit as part of the load panel fed by the battery, then yes, it will utilize the Powerwall until either the car is charged, or the PW is empty.

Passed all inspections! System has been on for one week now. Batteries are filling nicely. I especially like the Tesla app and how it shows you the solar electricity generation and where it goes (battery, house, grid).

Really awesome stuff!

Cheers!

Jim

I also had Solar + Powerwall installed recently, and find it interesting to keep an eye on the Tesla app to see the power generation and the distribution. Fun stuff!
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
5,989
5,567
Los Altos, CA
I am thinking about getting a MX. When do you charge your MS? If doing it at night, will it drain all the energy from PW?
Time Based Control, a setting in the Tesla App controlling the Powerwall system, can also make it so you can charge from the grid overnight even if you have the Wall Connector wired to the Backup panel. Personally, I don't want to charge my cars from the Powerwalls because my solar has a nominal value of at least 16c/kWh while I can charge the cars Off-Peak for 12.5c/kWh.
 

abasile

Conscientious investor
This will also depend on how you have your load panel set up. If you choose to have the car charging circuit as part of the load panel fed by the battery, then yes, it will utilize the Powerwall until either the car is charged, or the PW is empty.
Actually, it isn't necessary to have the EV charging station on the backed-up loads subpanel. Our charging stations are on our main panel and our Powerwalls can still supply power to them. However, when the grid goes down, our charging stations receive no power because the Tesla Energy Gateway creates an "island" that excludes all circuits outside the backed-up loads subpanel.

We normally charge the EVs overnight on "super off peak" rates, roughly $0.12/kWh. However, the Powerwalls come in handy if we need to charge an EV during the evening "peak" hours. If I need to charge our Model S when the sun is shining, though, then I prefer to set its charge rate low enough so that it can be charged directly from solar.
 

NuShrike

Member
Nov 13, 2017
459
193
SoCal
Time Based Control, a setting in the Tesla App controlling the Powerwall system, can also make it so you can charge from the grid overnight even if you have the Wall Connector wired to the Backup panel. Personally, I don't want to charge my cars from the Powerwalls because my solar has a nominal value of at least 16c/kWh while I can charge the cars Off-Peak for 12.5c/kWh.
Does TBC know if one is (standalone vs paired) storage to allow grid-charging? Or if one is taking the ITC which then requires 100%-only renewable charging?

Sometimes, it would be nice if Telsa is a little less black-box.
 

SD_Engnr

Active Member
Mar 24, 2016
1,836
1,489
San Diego
Time Based Control, a setting in the Tesla App controlling the Powerwall system, can also make it so you can charge from the grid overnight even if you have the Wall Connector wired to the Backup panel. Personally, I don't want to charge my cars from the Powerwalls because my solar has a nominal value of at least 16c/kWh while I can charge the cars Off-Peak for 12.5c/kWh.
Has Time Based Control been released to the general public? It's not available in the version of the app that I'm using (1.15.7).

The only TBC that I have is manual and time delayed by an hour - I switch my Powerwall use from Self-powered to Back-up only if I don't want to charge the car via the Powerwall. And since my plug-in does not have scheduled charging (XC90), that's my only work around right now.
 

cwied

Member
Jan 13, 2015
867
616
San Mateo, CA
The app and powerwall firmware support it, but Tesla needs to enable it for your account in order for it to be available on your installation. They are supposedly rolling it out gradually to all customers "by the end of April." I suppose one has to use the usual Tesla time filter to interpret what that means.
 
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