New Type of Car scam ! Gives the Scammer the car and its title !

[SageBrush]

The Bank letter is fake, i did not know of this till Honda came back to me with a payment returned.. I told them i have a bank letter.. I went to Bank of America and found out that the document was fake !

Then the buyer has a lot bigger problems than just stealing your car.

In any case, I think three things would happen in a scenario like this:

1. The buyer is easily caught and prosecuted for wire fraud and grand larceny
2. The car is returned to the owner (not sure who that is ...)
3. You do not owe Honda, because they released the title to you

You may have to hire a lawyer, and I am not.

 

[Krypto Kat]

• The buyer is easily caught and prosecuted for wire fraud and grand larceny

• The car is returned to the owner (not sure who that is ...)

• You do not owe Honda, because they released the title to you

Buyer is not from the same state, so inter department or inter state police work ....Hmmm. ... not so sure.

Assuming car is not chopped or shipped offshore.

Signed contract requires payment / completion of contract.

 

[Electroman]

Interesting that i was just reading this morning a post in quora (which i can't find now because the search capabilities are horrible in quora) in which a guy posted an item for sale in eBay for $500, got the money transferred to his account from the buyer and then he released his item.

The interesting thing as soon as money was deposited, the seller moved the *all* money out to a different account immediately. A day later the bank reversed the transaction for whatever reason , and so the reversal put a negative balance of $500. The bank came after him for the money and he refused. It went to collections and he explained the whole saga to them and they dropped the case instead of pursing it further.

 

[drsaab]

Sorry to hear about this but it's very weird.

It seems like the buyer would try to find just "Hondas" with a payoff remaining or something because I do not know any other car companies that send a title that fast with a payment.

Also for general knowledge a cashiers check or certified check or whatever you want to call it can be 100% reversed by the buyer making a stop payment so one should wait 4-5 days after deposit to release any titles etc. I "think" the only thing that can't be reversed is a wire or cash.

With all the id and bank info it seems that the buyer would be caught for fraud assuming an officer actually cares to do it. The finance company usually has prosecutors that will do this work but at this point they seem to want to come after you.

I would check with the Florida DMV. They may be able to stop that title from being valid somehow which makes the car not resellable but does not help the Honda payoff.

There is much much more fraud with buyers paying sellers with fake checks and reversing payments on direct transactions. First time I have ever heard a fraud with direct payment to the finance corp like this since titles are not released so fast.


At minimum you should call the Florida DMV and an auto attorney which you can find from the FIADA which is the Florida independent auto dealers association. As a Fl dealer I have a gut feeling that since Honda signed off on the title that the Lein was released, that makes them much more responsible than they seem to admit.

That signature may be a key element.

 

[SageBrush]

Buyer is not from the same state, so inter department or inter state police work ....Hmmm. ... not so sure.

That's the thing about grand larceny and wire fraud -- it becomes FBI territory.

 

[SageBrush]

Also for general knowledge a cashiers check or certified check or whatever you want to call it can be 100% reversed by the buyer making a stop payment so one should wait 4-5 days after deposit to release any titles etc.

How about money orders, of the type that can be bought at a Walmart or Grocery ?

 

[Electroman]

Also for general knowledge a cashiers check or certified check or whatever you want to call it can be 100% reversed by the buyer making a stop payment so one should wait 4-5 days after deposit to release any titles etc.

4 or 5 or is it 10 days? or is it a year? How do we know? how and when does the recipient can be 100% sure that the money can never be reversed by the bank?

In SQL parlance when is a transaction considered 'Commit'ted and cannot be 'Rolled' back? Honestly what stops the finance institution to come back after a month, and simply take the money out of your account citing section 15-3/c para 18.1 of the agreement that you signed on page 89.

 

[thevaibhav]

Interesting that i was just reading this morning a post in quora (which i can't find now because the search capabilities are horrible in quora) in which a guy posted an item for sale in eBay for $500, got the money transferred to his account from the buyer and then he released his item.

The interesting thing as soon as money was deposited, the seller moved the *all* money out to a different account immediately. A day later the bank reversed the transaction for whatever reason , and so the reversal put a negative balance of $500. The bank came after him for the money and he refused. It went to collections and he explained the whole saga to them and they dropped the case instead of pursing it further.

Honda is coming after me alright ! For now, they have sent me 2 demand notice and my account online shows me past due !
I just cant seem to agree to the fact that they wanted me to pay my lease payment ! I dont have the car, i had the title and payoff letter and yet they asked for a lease payment.. just not making sense..

I just wish they would send me a letter saying this is written off and let go find the buyer and lets collect the car + damages from him...

 

[thevaibhav]

4 or 5 or is it 10 days? or is it a year? How do we know? how and when does the recipient can be 100% sure that the money can never be reversed by the bank?

In SQL parlance when is a transaction considered 'Commit'ted and cannot be 'Rolled' back? Honestly what stops the finance institution to come back after a month, and simply take the money out of your account citing section 15-3/c para 18.1 of the agreement that you signed on page 89.

Sad but true ! In this case the bank (Honda) send me a confirmation saying that moeny is good by virtue of the letter ! i dont know what stnad i would have in court with this though !

 

[thevaibhav]

That's the thing about grand larceny and wire fraud -- it becomes FBI territory.

I just so hope this can be resolved ! For now its costed me many hours of pain and many sleepless night ! but a 25K hit on my finance will be bad !

 

[Max*]

Any updates?

I'm not a naive person, but could all this be a misunderstanding? I know that 99.99% it's fraud, but any chance?

 

[Pando]

Any time you hear "someone else" is picking up what you sell, it's a big red flag. This is very typical of these types of scams, especially when funds are exchanged electronically and the actual buyer never ever shows up.

Any document (bank authorization letters, cachier checks, money orders, etc.) can be faked with such good results that it looks legit to just about anybody, even to banks themselves, until the funds don't clear. And even if they do initially, you'd have to wait to be absolutely sure.

 

[dhanson865]

How about money orders, of the type that can be bought at a Walmart or Grocery ?

Money orders can be canceled just like a check.

 

[Electroman]

until the funds don't clear. And even if they do initially, you'd have to wait to be absolutely sure.

How long should the wait be? 1 day? 4 days? 10 days? 1 month? 1 year?

What stops the bank from reverting the funds back after say 6 months? If they can do it after two days, they can do it after 6 months !

 

[SageBrush]

Money orders can be canceled just like a check.

I read a little more about this after I posted. It sounds like each issuing company sets the rules for stopping payment. One person advised going to the bank with the buyer, having the bank cheque drawn, and then buying another bank cheque with first.

The notion being that once the cheque is cashed, there is very little to no recourse.

 

[flyhigh123]

Only accept wire transfers for large sums , or cash. Money orders and cashiers checks can be faked etc.

Sorry to hear