Newb Q--why must I use the brake pedal at all?

[Darren Donovan]

Tesla doesn't support 1 pedal driving. I only think that Nissan supports it. It's in the 2018 and newer Leafs. My wife loves it.

Chevrolet Bolt will stop completely with the regen paddle on the steering wheel.

 

[stickman]

That’s a great point.

Drives me nuts when I see posts that say they almost got into an accident because they had no or low regen. You should be prepared to instinctively use the brakes at any time.

I barely notice if I have high or low regen. I just automatically adjust without thinking about it.

Same here

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

For a novel approach, once you get below 5mph, engage R, then press lightly on the accelerator to come to a stop. No brakes needed! Who said the Permanent-Magnet Switched-Reluctance Motor could not regen?!? Just as good as a regen paddle.

Warning, will terrify people behind you. There are significant other issues as well (like subsequently forgetting the car is in reverse).

Seriously...definitely do not do this.

 

[SammichLover]

The motor on the Model 3 can't regen down to 0- there's some fairly detailed tech explanations why out there if you want to find em

That's unlikely to be the case with the Model 3 rear drive unit.

However the Model S set the "Tesla style" for braking, and if this is the case with it because of the induction motor, then this is just vestigial now.

 

[jerry33]

The main reason is to keep the disks clean and working. If they were never used, rust and dirt would build up and there would be a surprise when you actually need them. Also it makes for a much smoother braking experience. It also saves a lot of complexity and some energy.

 

[SammichLover]

Took delivery of my SR yesterday. Love it. Took me less than 15 minutes to get used to regenerative braking and one pedal driving. So....why won't the car completely stop with regen? Why make me use the brake pedal for only 4mph til 0, then hold and I can remove my foot from the brake?

A little secret, you can stop to 0 at will without fiction brakes. Around 5 mph you can drop the gear selector into the reverse direction and use the accelerator to actively slow down the last bit. Wouldn't recommend regularly doing this on the roads though. It is helluva tricky use (sometimes you have to switch twice, on some slopes), and likely violates local traffic laws to do it. There is often a law that disallows a reverse light while traveling forward, I know there is in TX. I haven't confirmed if the Model 3 puts on that light when you're rolling forward but in reverse gear but it is quite possible it does.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

A little secret, you can stop to 0 at will without fiction brakes. Around 5 mph you can drop the gear selector into the reverse direction and use the accelerator to actively slow down the last bit. Wouldn't recommend regularly doing this on the roads though. It is helluva tricky use (sometimes you have to switch twice, on some slopes), and likely violates local traffic laws to do it. There is often a law that disallows a reverse light while traveling forward, I know there is in TX. I haven't confirmed if the Model 3 puts on that light when you're rolling forward but in reverse gear but it is quite possible it does.

I hear an echo! Unlike me, it sounds like you actually try this sometimes though? Seems like a lot of work.

Newb Q--why must I use the brake pedal at all?

 

[seattlite2004]

Chevrolet Bolt will stop completely with the regen paddle on the steering wheel.

The Bolt will stop completely without using the brakes in S, L and any combination with the regen paddle. The paddle just changes the amount of regen with L+paddle having the most aggressive regen

 

[SammichLover]

I hear an echo! Unlike me, it sounds like you actually try this sometimes though? Seems like a lot of work.

Newb Q--why must I use the brake pedal at all?

Circumstances heavily motivated me.

But I also have started using it in parking lots when pulling out, but in the other way of shifting into D after backing out. Done smoothly it is an amazing feel.

 

[SammichLover]

The Bolt will stop completely without using the brakes in S, L and any combination with the regen paddle. The paddle just changes the amount of regen with L+paddle having the most aggressive regen

In 'D' though it is kind of academic, because it takes so long to stop w/o using the paddle.

 

[Blaine]

Newbie here, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it also a good idea to hit the brakes to slow down so drivers behind you see your brake lights?? if you never hit the brakes it is just like driving a car with broken brake lights??

 

[zhu-]

Newbie here, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it also a good idea to hit the brakes to slow down so drivers behind you see your brake lights?? if you never hit the brakes it is just like driving a car with broken brake lights??

Your regen causes the brake lights to come on already if the car is slowing down at a certain rate. It's why sometimes Tesla drivers look like bad drivers from the outside always stopping and going.

 

[SammichLover]

Newbie here, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it also a good idea to hit the brakes to slow down so drivers behind you see your brake lights?? if you never hit the brakes it is just like driving a car with broken brake lights??

If you're on Normal your brake lights do go on often. If you watch the screen it'll show you when that happens via lighting up the taillights of the car avatar.

That is if you have sharp eyes. The lights on the avatar are kinda small and especially if your car is Red Multicoat it can be hard to spot this.

 

[Knightshade]

That's unlikely to be the case with the Model 3 rear drive unit.

As remlamasi already pointed out- it's exactly the case with the Model 3 rear drive unit

Another clue that the Model 3 motor is not using those rare-earths in a conventional permanent-magnet motor design is that the car does not do regen all the way down to 0 miles per hour.

Tesla Model 3 Motor — Everything I've Been Able To Learn About It (Welcome To The Machine) | CleanTechnica

 

[seattlite2004]

In 'D' though it is kind of academic, because it takes so long to stop w/o using the paddle.

Yep...I like using L mode which is about the same as the Mod 3 most agressive regen mode...but the Bolt comes to a complete stop. For faster stops/agressive braking...I like to use L÷paddle and feather the throttle to control regen braking.

 

[SammichLover]

Yep...I like using L mode which is about the same as the Mod 3 most agressive regen mode...but the Bolt comes to a complete stop.

Unfortunately in a much ruder way. Wish they would have made it less jerky, hopefully they fix that with their new models they bring out because as is it is inferior to Tesla's ride experience. The brake pedal feel isn't even close either but they probably can't fix that much, why I expect Tesla went the other route and didn't put any regen link on the friction brake pedal.

P.S. Also apparently the Bolt doesn't show the brake lights, at least not in a normal way. Person I know with one has been approached by someone from behind at a intersection to provide a friendly warning that their "brake lights aren't working". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Maybe they were using D then and that doesn't show the brake lights, not sure? Part of why they use the friction brakes anyway. The other part they do is that Bolt doesn't appear to have as firm a stop as a Tesla in 'Hold'. Probably should use the footbrake at the very end anyway.

 

[SammichLover]

As remlamasi already pointed out- it's exactly the case with the Model 3 rear drive unit



Tesla Model 3 Motor — Everything I've Been Able To Learn About It (Welcome To The Machine) | CleanTechnica

That's a pretty dumb thing conclusion they draw there given that it is a mirror of Model S behavior thus there is a much simpler, more obvious reason for Tesla to have the behavior like it is. That it is familiar to existing customers and a very successful behavior.

 

[timk225]

I have come to a complete stop without the brakes, but that last 5mph takes a while. I think it's because the motor just isn't spinning fast enough to generate much of a magnetic field at very low speeds.

 

[jerry33]

Newbie here, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it also a good idea to hit the brakes to slow down so drivers behind you see your brake lights?? if you never hit the brakes it is just like driving a car with broken brake lights??

Besides the brake lights come on when regen is over a certain amount, standard transmission cars have never activated the brake lights when gearing down. It's a non-issue.

 

[Knightshade]

That's a pretty dumb thing conclusion they draw there given that it is a mirror of Model S behavior thus there is a much simpler, more obvious reason for Tesla to have the behavior like it is. That it is familiar to existing customers and a very successful behavior.

I'm sorry you find facts to be "dumb" but they remain facts nonetheless.


Here's yet another thread confirming the facts I've already given you-

Why doesn’t regen work below 5mph?

Besides several external links it includes this:

Both the induction motors (used in S, X, and front motor of AWD 3's) and the PMSR motors (used in rear motor of 3's) need a magnetic field set up inside the motor in order to convert current to torque (acceleration) or counter-torque to current (regen). You must use a small amount of current from the battery and send it through the windings of the motor in order to set up this magnetic field.

Below 5 MPH, the amount of power required to set up the magnetic field exceeds the amount of power you can create from regen, so there is no point in attempting to recover that power. Theoretically you could do it and allow the motor to slow the car to 0 MPH, but that would actually result in a net power loss, so it's more efficient to just use the friction brakes.

The Leaf and other EVs that use straight permanent magnet motors can regen all the way to 0 without this efficiency loss because the permanent magnets are responsible for setting up the magnetic field. No power from the battery is necessary.

The small permanent magnets in the Model 3's PMSR motor are not powerful enough to set up the magnetic field, they are only there to smooth out low-speed torque ripple which is inherent to the reluctance motor design.

So- as I said- neither type of Tesla motor regens to 0 due to the techncial details of their design compared to other cars that do so with different motors- though as AlanSubie4Life mentioned it's really that said design makes doing so without actually losing net power impossible.