Adm
Active Member
Would it be more accurate to say that Model S costs $20k more than you are willing to spend on a car?
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Nissan Leaf
- Thread starter efusco
- Start date
Would it be more accurate to say that Model S costs $20k more than you are willing to spend on a car?
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I actually kind of like the Juke, I think the Cube is much worse. For me the Coda's problems all start in front of the windshield. Cover the front end with your hand when looking at a picture and the rest of the car is not bad at all.
As a Leaf owner myself - I'll agree with this statement. But I want to clarify my position on this. I think the front looks cool, really cool. The car also looks fine from the side. But if viewing the Leaf directly from the rear of the car, it is pretty ugly.
I also love the design of the interior. While I'll say the seats and the carpet as with much of the plastics could stand to be made of better material, overall it is designed and thought out well. It is comfortable.
As far as the Leaf's look, Nissan apparently went the Prius route and tried to create something distinctive rather than something attractive. While I think that made sense for the Prius at the time, I don't think that tactic is as much value now. The Prius needed to stand out, it's hybrid nature as a value-add. I'm not sure that same approach is as much in the Leaf's favor.
I don't think the Leaf looks bad, I see them regularly here in Beaverton Oregon, but they're not something that catches my eye.
I don't think the Leaf looks bad, I see them regularly here in Beaverton Oregon, but they're not something that catches my eye.
Yeah, I can't understand the logic there. Make it look like some sort of dorky electric car outside, but under the hood try to make it look like an ICE? That's totally backwards! Tesla has it right - normal outside, EV under the hood.
What are your night-time temperatures like? I gather that Phoenix stays hot at night. That could make a difference. I.e., whether or not the pack gets a chance to cool off at night. Just thinking out loud. I don't really know.
I agree. I test-drove a Leaf and I liked it. It had better acceleration than either my Prius or (in my subjective opinion) the Volt, and it handled well. Of course, nothing compares to my Roaster, but like Zythryn, I'd rather drive the Leaf than any ICE.
I don't care what a car looks like. I care what it does or does not do: Does it burn gasoline? Bad. Does it make noise? Bad. Does it vibrate at stop signs and red lights? Bad. Does it use foreign energy? Bad. The Leaf passes all my tests. I'd have bought one if I could have, and I expect I'd have been happy with it. OTOH, I like my Roadster more. And I'd still need the Prius for road trips. I probably won't be EV-only until I have to give up my summers in Canada.
During the heat of the Summer it usually stays around 80 degrees at night. Or record hottest low was 86 degrees, I believe. Of course my garage tends to hold the heat in. It might be 80 degrees outside in the morning, but my garage will still be reading 90 or better. In fact, my garage is usually over 100 degrees until well after midnight. And to make matters worse, my Leaf is usually charging during the hottest time also, because it is usually finished well before midnight.
I understand that you don't want to use gasoline (me neither), but why is it OK to spend your summers in Canada, but bad to get your energy from Canada?
Yes, Model S is $20K than I am willing to spend. Don't get me wrong, I want a Model S. I don't have a reservation and yet I spend time here and on the Tesla site.
Question is, how many people can/will pay "Model S money" for a car (this car, or any car)? Even if Tesla manages to sell their goal of 20k units/year, it is still niche. I want to see BEVs gain mass adoption, and it's not going to happen at the Model S price point. See my earlier point as to why I'm less optimistic about Gen III. I really hope Tesla proves me wrong! There are few companies I root for, but Tesla is one of them.
That's the challenge for Tesla to figure out if they really want to get mass adoption of BEVs.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
One reason could be that tar sands oil is a disaster. I"ll take Canadian hydro-power all day, and night.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Leaf has a more Japanese/European look rather than the sedan look US prefers. I don't think the designers setout trying to create "something distinctive rather than something attractive".
For all the "distinctive" talk of Leaf's looks, few people notice it on the road. On the road it looks like a generic compact hatch.
By the way, someone with a "GID meter" just took a reading off my LEAF (which I have had for 15months / 13K miles) after I charged to 100%, and they got a reading of 272 out of a possible/ideal 281... So, my LEAF is showing no more than 3% possible capacity reduction at this time, so far. When my LEAF is charging at night, temps are typically under 70 degrees F.
The big variable with LEAF battery degradation appears to be ambient temperature. The Roadster and it's temperature controlled pack appears to vary mostly by miles driven.
I would say that the Model S is in a "segment," not a "niche." The Roadster is in a niche. The Model S is squarely in a "premium large sedan" segment, which sells approximately 1 million units annually. It's pricing is squarely in this range, so there's little to no EV premium.
The Leaf is in a large segment, the "small commuter vehicle." This segment is much larger, in the tens of millions annually worldwide. Nissan has a hill to climb, though, in that the Leaf is quite pricey for a vehicle in this segment.
And this is why I disagree with your pessimism about the Gen III: it's in the large "premium mid-size sedan" category, which sells in the millions annually. And, if Elon is able to deliver, the car will once again be squarely in the category's price point (mid-$30k). Of course, by then the Leaf will cost mid-$20ks or be obsolete.
For many customers, the LEAF is/was already mid $20ks due to $7500K fed incentives + state incentives (which was $5K in CA when I got mine.)
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
A range of 73 miles just doesn't cut it. That's my only complaint with the LEAF. Otherwise, it's a fine if slightly-wonky-looking EV in that mass market price range. For most large metro areas in the US, 100-130 miles (for the commute and side trips if not the weekend expeditions) would work and that's what Tesla Gen III might have to shoot for.
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