Not exactly a warranty statement but:
In Race to Market, Nissans Electric Car Takes Shortcuts | Autopia | Wired.com
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Nissan Leaf
- Thread starter efusco
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Not exactly a warranty statement but:
In Race to Market, Nissans Electric Car Takes Shortcuts | Autopia | Wired.com
Well, by "energy output", I think he was suggesting "power output". In other words, they want to warranty that the car will continue to provide advertised horsepower & acceleration, but not necessarily range.
I remember hearing about a fan early on and wasn't aware they had gotten rid of it.
Regarding the battery warranty, here's what I found with my cursory search:
Regarding the battery warranty, here's what I found with my cursory search:
Nissan LEAF Battery Warranty Update
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It warranties power output (the car has to perform as it does out of the factory in that regard), but it explicitly excludes capacity:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...Revealed/page2?p=119510&viewfull=1#post119510
The Volt's warranty is not much better (although the technician can replace a battery for capacity reasons, so it's not explicitly excluding it, although the warranty provides no hard numbers and your replacement battery will only have as much capacity as your original battery did when it "failed"):
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/5130-BMW-i/page11?p=126090&viewfull=1#post126090
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As a Leaf owner, I personally am shocked at the way Nissan has dealt with this and I think it will turn into a disaster if they don't do something quickly to rekindle confidence in the product. the mood on MNL has taken a distinct turn for the worse. There are multiple Pheonix owners that are seeing a second of 12 capacity bars lost, over 20% within about a year. The most alarming part is that the second capacity bar, about 7%, is dropping in a matter of weeks after the first, one owner reports the second bar disappearing only 1,000 miles after the first. While Nissan is quite up front in the purchase process about their not being a guarantee on the capacity, there is nothing in the purchase process that alerts a buyer to the potential for a 20+ % loss in a year due to climate. Nissan could be handling these extreme cases in a much different way, but instead they are stating that the loss is "normal". Nissan will have no trouble proving they have no legal liability, however, loyalty in the brand is plummeting and that's all that matters when it comes to scoring sales. It's really a shame.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Actually at some point of capacity loss the pack will not be able to deliver the guaranteed amount of power because it will be a higher relative C rate. If capacity is dropping that quickly in the heat there may be an accelerated loss compounded by pulling higher and higher relative C rates from a shrinking pack capacity. Some of those people with the most capacity loss should do some performance tests to see if there is any drop yet. I'd bet Nissan is going to have to replace those packs at one point or another, they would save themselves some grief by being proactive.
gkalexdc
Member
I just SOLD my LEAF. Why? Well, Im in Texas. It is hottern Hell here, and even though I had one year, and 13000 miles of 100% capacity, and my first year Battery Test was 5 stars, I just couldnt believe the AZ and TX and Las Vegas stories, and the fact that I BOUGHT the Nissan sales pitch "that our battery is 20 years in the making, and our battery is READY..." and that the simple air induction cooling was sufficient. So. I decided to cut my losses. The intent was to originally buy a LEAF, and see how I did. Training wheels if you could analogy the thought. Then, the plan was to buy a TESLA. After that, Elon Musk was asked about the Nissan Leaf, and its battery in particular. He said of the battery system, I believe, It's Primitive . What a shift in my thinking occurred after he said THAT. So, after all that, and seeing not ONE but now TWO bars on people's Leafs disappearing, I am glad that I GOT OUT. The Nissan people have a major debacle on their hands. Wow, and a BIG factory coming on line to produce EDSELS. Yes, I am old enough to know about how those cars were marketed, and then watched them crater on the streets of my home town in and around 1960. The range was insufficient to do much with them also. I fretted about how I treated my pack. How to charge it. Fretted about using too much energy, so I was always in the slow lane. This just doesnt have to be, so I ditched the training wheels, because I LEARNED extensively, on the LEAF, and now, in a positive light, my plan, to learn about EV driving has been a steep curve, but a good one. Now, I know HOW TO RIDE THIS BIKE. Consequently, I executed the rest of my plan, and ordered a TESLA S..... I am #8,742
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
sp4rk
Banned
But lets think about this issue a little further. if Nissan starts replacing these packs that have lost one bar of capacity, what kind of precedent does that set? That tells people that as soon as their pack loses a bar, go to Nissan and they'll give you a brand new battery! Sure, some people say it is too early to lose this much capacity. But where exactly do you draw the line? Obviously if Nissan has to start giving a brand new battery to every Leaf owner in Phoenix it would be best just to stop selling the car there.
I'm happy to report that my Leaf here in Ft.Worth still has all of its capacity bars. Last year it was over 100 degrees every day for several months. Many of those days reached 110. I've had my Leaf for 15 months and 11,500 miles. I've charged to 100% most of its life. However, I'll confess that I suspect I've lost about 5 miles of capacity. I only say that because longer trips that I used to make last year to the other side of town would have me coming home with around 27 miles left. The same trip this Summer under similar conditions is leaving me with 23 miles. I know that isn't scientific, but it is noticeable.
I have started charging to 80% recently. There really is no excuse with my short commute. It seemed a bit awkward at first because I'd be coming home from work every day with the battery reading around 60 miles instead of the 80 or more I was used to seeing. However, now I've gotten used to it and I'm fine with it. In fact, so far I've had only one occasion when I knew I'd be going further and had to hit the charge-timer button (to turn it off) to make sure I got a full charge for the next morning.
Also worth mentioning. if I do drop a capacity bar, it is not going to be a big deal. Again, my commute is so short and even my "longer trips" would still be viable as long as the car could do 60 miles per charge. I think it will be a while before I'll have anything to worry about. Even though my car is leased I still plan to purchase the car at the end of my lease. I'm that confident in the car and that it will continue to meet my needs for years to come.
I'm happy to report that my Leaf here in Ft.Worth still has all of its capacity bars. Last year it was over 100 degrees every day for several months. Many of those days reached 110. I've had my Leaf for 15 months and 11,500 miles. I've charged to 100% most of its life. However, I'll confess that I suspect I've lost about 5 miles of capacity. I only say that because longer trips that I used to make last year to the other side of town would have me coming home with around 27 miles left. The same trip this Summer under similar conditions is leaving me with 23 miles. I know that isn't scientific, but it is noticeable.
I have started charging to 80% recently. There really is no excuse with my short commute. It seemed a bit awkward at first because I'd be coming home from work every day with the battery reading around 60 miles instead of the 80 or more I was used to seeing. However, now I've gotten used to it and I'm fine with it. In fact, so far I've had only one occasion when I knew I'd be going further and had to hit the charge-timer button (to turn it off) to make sure I got a full charge for the next morning.
Also worth mentioning. if I do drop a capacity bar, it is not going to be a big deal. Again, my commute is so short and even my "longer trips" would still be viable as long as the car could do 60 miles per charge. I think it will be a while before I'll have anything to worry about. Even though my car is leased I still plan to purchase the car at the end of my lease. I'm that confident in the car and that it will continue to meet my needs for years to come.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Good point, and it's possible that Nissan thinks the capacity drop may stabilize somewhat, which is consistent with some cycle life graphs I've seen, which go almost flat around 70% of original capacity, but that also depends on the cell chemistry. Nissan has been working with lithium for a long time so they may know what they are doing. I certainly hope so.
I am a happy NissanLeaf owner for the past 16 Months (so-cal resident) , I recently reserved (P9666) Model S (85k, Panoroof, Audio, TwinCharger, AirSuspension ). I am betting on all 100% Electric vehicles in my household.
I would like to hear from anyone out-there to suggest/comment on possible issues in a household without a gas based car ??
I would like to hear from anyone out-there to suggest/comment on possible issues in a household without a gas based car ??
Funny, I have done exactly the same thing. Bought a Leaf, loved it, now (today) reserved a Model S to replace our other car (VW TDI). Haven't gotten a sequence number yet though, just the reservation number.
With the 85kWh range I don't see any issues with a EV only household, the one issue I do have is no hitch available on either car. I'll have so resort to swapping cars with my parents when the hitch is needed. Hopefully not that often, since the S at least can be fitted with a roof rack.
Once you get your Tesla, you are going to have another problem: Nobody will want to drive the LEAF, because it sucks so bad.
tomsax
Member
We've been all electric since 2010 (since 2009 really, it just took us a while to sell the last gasser). We have a 2002 Toyota RAV4-EV, a 2008 Tesla Roadster and a 2011 Nissan Leaf. We drive the Leaf the most in the winter, the heated steering wheel is so decadent! The Roadster gets more use in the summer. The RAV is a collector's item, and with the NiMH batteries doesn't seem to have any shelf life issue, so it gets used occasionally when we need a little more cargo space or a little more range than the Leaf. I expect the RAV will last us another 10 years.
The biggest problem we've had is having to fill the wiper fluid ourselves because the EVs aren't constantly going in for oil changes.
If we need something more than what the EVs can do, we could always borrow a friend's car or rent something. So far, that hasn't happened. YMMV.
sp4rk
Banned
Ditto ... totally unwarranted post.
I love my Leaf ... had it a month ... "upgraded" from Lexus. So glad I did.
I will "love" my "S" more but the Leaf will have been proven to be a great "education" for the year while I wait.
Do you have one?
If so, why do you think it "sucks so bad"?
I love my Leaf ... had it a month ... "upgraded" from Lexus. So glad I did.
I will "love" my "S" more but the Leaf will have been proven to be a great "education" for the year while I wait.
Do you have one?
If so, why do you think it "sucks so bad"?
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I know some people have put hitches on LEAF's, and I'm pretty sure the same could be done with the S. I've put hitches on cars that were never made for them. One was a Chevy Citation, I just drilled a hole in the bumper and bolted on a hitch ball to tow my boat :scared: Ah youth.
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
I think that the LEAF is a fine car and if I didn't have my parents living 180 miles away, I'd have one as my only car. As it is I need to wait for a Model S, but I should probably buy a house first since I have no place to charge it, so maybe after house buying I'll buy a LEAF as a second car because I won't have as much money left for an S. We'll see.
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