Nissan Leaf

[EVNow]

You might be able to keep the fed credit if you resold it soon, but the CARB money is supposed be be returned if you don't keep the car for some long period of time.

In CA you have to return the prorated money if the car is sold within 3 years.

For the federal tax credit, it is a bit unclear. From IRS ...

The purchaser may claim a credit in the certified amount with respect to the vehicle if the following requirements are satisfied:
(1) The vehicle is placed in service by the taxpayer in a taxable year beginning after December 31, 2009, and is acquired by the taxpayer after December 31, 2009;
(2) The original use of the vehicle commences with the taxpayer;
(3) The vehicle is acquired for use or lease by the taxpayer, and not for resale; and
(4) The vehicle is used predominantly in the United States.

The question is - when is the car considered to have been acquired for resale. If someone buys an EV and sells within a week, does it constitute "acquired for resale" ? What if the seller says, he got the car hoping/assuming it would work for him, but it didn't. I guess a question for tax lawyers and subject to interpretation by the IRS guy handling the return.

 

[doug]

Nissan and JAF to Test Roadside Service Vehicle With EV Charger

 

[vfx]

Range Anxiety is Real, Say Stranded Leaf Drivers : Greentech Media

 

[doug]

Range Anxiety is Real, Say Stranded Leaf Drivers : Greentech Media

John Boesel from CalStart, a clean transportation advocacy group, drove his Leaf 65 miles from his home in Marin to Palo Alto on Thursday. ...because the Leaf only has an 80- to 100-mile range, the need to charge in Palo Alto was unavoidable... He plugged in at noon, but had to stay until around 7:30.

This just shows how ridiculous that 3.3 kW charger is. I'm sure from noon to 4pm he was in meetings or something, yet that still wasn't long enough for him to get the charge he needed.

 

[strider]

This just shows how ridiculous that 3.3 kW charger is. I'm sure from noon to 4pm he was in meetings or something, yet that still wasn't long enough for him to get the charge he needed.

But he also could have stopped at the Nissan dealership in Redwood City on his way home and done a DC fast charge for 15 mins or so.

I just wish Model S and the next fleet of EVs would come out soon - because there are so few models the media tends to tar the whole industry because of mistakes by single vendors.

 

[smorgasbord]

Excuse the noob question, but is the Roadster able to get a charge off of the Nissan chargers?

If so, I realize there's a second question of whether they'll let us charge there (as well as whether those chargers are open 24/7, etc.)

 

[TEG]

Someone remarked that airplane pilots make good Leaf drivers.
People who plan their trips, know their range, and make sure never to get in a situation where they can't find a place to "refuel" before running out.
(Also keeping in mind various "plan Bs" in case something unexpected happens.)

After driving an even shorter range EV for years, the Leaf feels liberating. It is all relative. Gas vehicle drivers with 300+ mile range per tank are "spoiled" and just need a little retraining.

 

[TEG]

Excuse the noob question, but is the Roadster able to get a charge off of the Nissan chargers?
If so, I realize there's a second question of whether they'll let us charge there (as well as whether those chargers are open 24/7, etc.)

Not 100% sure what you mean by "Nissan chargers". The Leaf can be had with two charge ports - J1772, and CHAdeMO.
With a $750 adapter cable from Tesla, a Roadster can plug into the same type of public J1772 charge stations that a Leaf uses. Those are the slow(ish) charge locations. Typically they offer max of about 6.6kW (and the current Leaf only charges J1772 at "half speed") so you are looking at empty to full in about 7 hours for either a Roadster (6.6kW into 53kWh) or a Leaf (3.3kW into 24kWh). The Roadster offers no provision to use the high speed CHAdeMO chargers.

People are curious if ModelS will offer charging from CHAdeMO or not. It isn't clear yet.

---

Nissan dealers in Japan and UK tend to have the CHAdeMO high speed chargers.
Nissan dealers in the USA tend to have the lower speed J1772 charge spots.
Leaf owners are finding that many USA Leaf Dealerships turn off and/or lock up their J1772s at night.
Also, some Leaf buyers are finding that dealers want to restrict use to customers of their dealership only.
Based on the above, I think it would be risky to count on charging a Roadster at a Nissan dealership.
You could find it closed, or the dealership saying it is reserved for customers only.

 

[smorgasbord]

First, thanks for the info

Not 100% sure what you mean by "Nissan chargers".

I meant: What have Nissan dealers installed on their lots? I'm assuming Nissan has settled on some standard that all their Leaf dealerships are installing.

My understanding is that J1772 can go quite a bit higher than 6.6kW. I've read that in CA they pulled the Tesla connectors off the Rabobank HPC units and put on J1772, but kept the output at 70amps. Can someone confirm, because I'd like to plan a trip down the CA coast this summer from San Jose to Orange County.

Are we getting to the point where Roadster owners are going to be sandwiched in the middle in terms of on-the-road charging? That is, the J1772s are too low power and the high speed CHAdeMO chargers are incompatible? That would mean looking for RV parks with NEMA 14-50s as the only fast-ish charge solution on the road....

 

[TEG]

The J1772 spec supports HPC like charging rates, but the Roadster is one of the few vehicles that can take advantage of things like 70amp 240V charging.
It is a lot easier (and cheaper) to get a circuit with a 40amp breaker than it is to get one with an 90amp breaker, plus there are different grades of J1772 plugs, many which are only rated for 30amp continuous use. So, bottom line, most of the J1772s you will find around (including at Nissan dealerships) will only offer up to 30amp charging. They put out a signal that will tell the vehicle not to try to draw any more than that amount of current.

NEMA14-50 + UMC also can only provide less than HPC charge rates. So, for Roadster roadtrips, having full current HPCs around is the best option if you can find it.
I am not sure if they put 70amp capable J1772 plugs on the Rabobank converted HPCs.

You might want to check out this thread:
The End of Public HPCs
Notice how this HPC converted to J1772 says it only supports 32A:

 

[smoothoperator]

First, thanks for the info



I meant: What have Nissan dealers installed on their lots? I'm assuming Nissan has settled on some standard that all their Leaf dealerships are installing.

My understanding is that J1772 can go quite a bit higher than 6.6kW. I've read that in CA they pulled the Tesla connectors off the Rabobank HPC units and put on J1772, but kept the output at 70amps. Can someone confirm, because I'd like to plan a trip down the CA coast this summer from San Jose to Orange County.

Are we getting to the point where Roadster owners are going to be sandwiched in the middle in terms of on-the-road charging? That is, the J1772s are too low power and the high speed CHAdeMO chargers are incompatible? That would mean looking for RV parks with NEMA 14-50s as the only fast-ish charge solution on the road....

If you do end up doing this trip, please let us know where you charged up during this trip. I would like to do a similar trip but in reverse.

 

[ChargeIt!]

TEG's (and other contributors) have already passed along most of the useful info. Some more hints:

Use EVCN-Tesla to find out the ampacity of those former Tesla HPCs at Rabobanks & elsewhere. Most of them are indeed 70A capable, but not all. And some are 208V nominal, not 240V.

The Nissan Dealer EVSEs are indeed typically J1772 with 30A ability (so this is 7.2kW, not 6.6kW -- but it could be 6.2kW if their supply is 208V, which is less likely). The 30A is a limitation of the J-plug on those EVSEs (it should have been 32A). There is a J-plug rated to 75A, so that's the one that's implemented on the converted Tesla HPCs, but due to cost issues the defacto J-1772 EVSEs installed out there are the 30A variety (on a 40A breaker).

If you have a 1.5 Roadster you can not yet use the Nissan EVSEs due to lack of a FW update from Tesla Motors ...

 

[TEG]

Use EVCN-Tesla to find out the ampacity of those former Tesla HPCs at Rabobanks & elsewhere. Most of them are indeed 70A capable, but not all. And some are 208V nominal, not 240V.

Is there a list somewhere which shows the ones that have been converted to J1772 plugs instead of Tesla plugs?
(EVCN still seems to show them as Tesla plugs even on ones I know got converted.)

 

[ChargeIt!]

Is there a list somewhere which shows the ones that have been converted to J1772 plugs instead of Tesla plugs?
(EVCN still seems to show them as Tesla plugs even on ones I know got converted.)

There's no really authoratative separate list (that I know of) that shows specifically which ones are converted. Yes, EVCN still shows them as Tesla plugs, but if you follow any one location of interest thru the links to EVChargerMaps, in the comments section it tells you if the plug has been changed (for example: here). Of the 22 locations shown at EVCN-Tesla only the four along I-5 (Yreka, Orland, Woodland (not operational; vandalism), Harris Ranch), Tesla Stores, and the one in Rocklin are still Tesla plugs; rest is J-1772 ... that's my best knowledge. Not sure about Barstow; I assume it's still Tesla.

EDIT: For unknown reasons San Ramon is not shown in that Tesla list. It's also converted. I added it to the list below.

So ... an unofficial list ... (updated 11:15am Sunday 6/12/2011)

 

[TEG]

Thanks!
If you haven't already posted that table on the MyNissanLeaf.com site, you might want to... I think they would appreciate seeing it.

 

[DarkStar]

This just shows how ridiculous that 3.3 kW charger is. I'm sure from noon to 4pm he was in meetings or something, yet that still wasn't long enough for him to get the charge he needed.

Given the information provided, he was charging at Level 1 from a regular outlet, not a Level 2 outlet. He would have gained about 50 miles in 4 hours if he was plugged into Level 2.

 

[doug]

Given the information provided, he was charging at Level 1 from a regular outlet, not a Level 2 outlet. He would have gained about 50 miles in 4 hours if he was plugged into Level 2.

Fare enough, but the guy said he was going to Marin which is 70 miles away.

But he also could have stopped at the Nissan dealership in Redwood City on his way home and done a DC fast charge for 15 mins or so.

Do they have a CHAdeMO fast charger in Redwood City? DC fast charge is good, but in this situation (parked for a few hours) Level 2 around 8kW or better is what I'd think would be appropriate.

 

[vfx]

Fare enough, but the guy said he was going to Marin ....

But the GG bridge is free in that direction...

 

[doug]

But the GG bridge is free in that direction...

I see your point...

 

[doug]

2012 Nissan Leaf available this fall; cold weather package now standard - Autoblog Green

From the press release:

Enhancements for the 2012 model year include the addition of standard battery heater, heated outside mirrors, heated front steering wheel, heated front and rear seats and rear HVAC duct. A Quick Charge Port is also added as standard equipment on Nissan LEAF SL models.

Interesting that they're making the DC fast charge port standard but no mention of upgrading the on-board charger. To me this means that Nissan is upping the ante on making CHAdeMO a default standard and they have no interest in supporting destination charging (i.e. getting a meaningful charge at the mall or movies, etc).