No load center/electrical panel upgrade needed?

[GHall]

@GHall any update?

Dave was right that the inspector was there to take a bunch of pictures and it is up to the Tesla engineers to do the analysis to determine what is needed. He did say he thought the panel would be replaced but deferred that decision to the engineers. Really nice guy that took the time to explain how everything would be installed and showed me some tile samples.
Since the panel has to be replaced, I am thinking of going with the new Span panel (span.io). They are standing by to install but I am waiting to hear back from the analysis before I decide.

 

[bossturbo]

Interesting, thank you. Tesla did the solar installation with your 100amp service panel, other than final connection?

 

[GHall]

Interesting, thank you. Tesla did the solar installation with your 100amp service panel, other than final connection?

No, my solar roof install is scheduled for next month.

 

[BrettS]

Since the panel has to be replaced, I am thinking of going with the new Span panel (span.io). They are standing by to install but I am waiting to hear back from the analysis before I decide.

If you’re looking at doing Tesla solar you should probably confirm that they would be willing to install into the span panel. I didn’t know anything about it, but I took a quick look at their website and it looks like it has a transfer switch and a bunch of other stuff in there.

If you’re looking at doing powerwalls too then a lot of the functionality in the span panel may be duplicated in the TEG and I’m not sure how the span panel and the TEG would play together.

Tesla doesn’t seem to like anything other than standard cookie cutter installs, so I suspect that they might have a problem with the span panel. At the very least I would get confirmation from tesla that they are OK with it before you spend a lot of money to get that panel installed.

 

[GHall]

Hi Brett. Thanks for your response and I agree with your guidance regarding the Span panel.

 

[FlJay]

Hi Brett. Thanks for your response and I agree with your guidance regarding the Span panel.

Have you considered the Lumin product? Home - Lumin There is a video on the website that gives a pretty good example of the control and data monitoring functions. There is also a pretty good write-up here https://news.energysage.com/lumin-energy-overview/#:~:text=Lumin provides a hardware and,the market and homeowner objectives. It looks like it can be installed after your solar install. I plan on having all my existing circuits in my backed up panel. So this device might be useful to remotely turn certain breakers on/off to prolong your battery life for extended power outages.

Jay

 

[SoCal Dave]

Dave was right

Can I have this framed?

 

[bossturbo]

@GHall here's a "smart service panel" from a traditional manufacturer, if that's what you're after. And there's always Sense, which seems a bit hacky tho.

Smart Circuit Breaker Box | Load Center | Leviton

Or IoTaWatt :
Home - Brand

 

[GHall]

Have you considered the Lumin product? Home - Lumin There is a video on the website that gives a pretty good example of the control and data monitoring functions. There is also a pretty good write-up here https://news.energysage.com/lumin-energy-overview/#:~:text=Lumin provides a hardware and,the market and homeowner objectives. It looks like it can be installed after your solar install. I plan on having all my existing circuits in my backed up panel. So this device might be useful to remotely turn certain breakers on/off to prolong your battery life for extended power outages.

Jay

Thanks for the link, Jay. Looks like is does essentially the same thing as the Span panel using existing load centers.

 

[GHall]

@GHall here's a "smart service panel" from a traditional manufacturer, if that's what you're after. And there's always Sense, which seems a bit hacky tho.

Smart Circuit Breaker Box | Load Center | Leviton

Or IoTaWatt :
Home - Brand

I did look into the Leviton system. From my research it seems that most electricians are not in favor of this system as they prefer the more traditional proven panels. I think I may just stick with what will be provided then look into the Lumin product if I really think I want those features.

 

[Vines]

Pretty sure that a residence is not allowed to downsize below 100A, though I have seen a 60A service to a home. It was probably new when they replaced the knob and tube wiring.

I'd say that's a service upgrade if you want more than 20A of PV, line side tap looks like a no-go. You could install a single 3800 or equivalent and that's it. Local company charging $2k is a steal around here. Its usually $3-5k in the bay area.

 

[SoCal Dave]

I did look into the Leviton system. From my research it seems that most electricians are not in favor of this system as they prefer the more traditional proven panels. I think I may just stick with what will be provided then look into the Lumin product if I really think I want those features.

As a former electrical foreman, I would be in agreement with that as well. Modern electrical panels and breakers are bullet proof. I don't want to be wondering if my electrical panel needs to be rebooted or have a firmware upgrade to fix an issue

Also, if it is a retrofit, likely many of your circuits would be shared, so the ability to turn on and off lights from your phone would cover too large of an area to be useful.

I am considering something like the Home - Brand system for additional monitoring. If that dies, I don't have to worry about the electrical power going out. Though, I am wondering how much information I'll get from it that I don't already know.

 

[FlJay]

Should I be able to use my existing main panel as my service disconnect? Non of the existing breakers will be used. The existing panel is about 20 years old and parts of the label are pretty much unreadable. My proposed system is the 16.32 kW with 4 Powerwalls and I plan on backing up all existing loads with a new panel. Thanks. BTW, why does only 1 thumbnail photo appear?

 

[Zorg]

Or you could end up with 5 panels like me. Main outside, 2 sub panels inside (original house, addition), 1 sub panel outside for solar disconnect, and a sub panel for the Powerwalls.

Question: is your main service 200A? I know I had to upgrade my service line from 100A to 200A when I expanded my solar panels.

 

[bossturbo]

Question: is your main service 200A? I know I had to upgrade my service line from 100A to 200A when I expanded my solar panels.

No clue. It's an underground service entrance, for better or worse. Once I have some bodies on the property to do an actual inspection, I'll have more information. I also have no idea of the condition of the roof.

 

[Zorg]

No clue. It's an underground service entrance, for better or worse. Once I have some bodies on the property to do an actual inspection, I'll have more information. I also have no idea of the condition of the roof.

I have PG&E, and upgrading from underground 100A to 200A was like a 6 month project. The application to PG&E was like $4K... The underground work was another $15K. Then, it took a little while longer because PG&E had to install new transformers in the neighborhood, because the old ones were maxed out. But to somebody's point earlier, a 100A service line will support 4KW max solar or so.

 

[wwhitney]

Pretty sure that a residence is not allowed to downsize below 100A.

So, 230.79(C) requires the service disconnecting means for a dwelling unit to be rated 100A or more, and 230.42(B) requires the service conductors to be rated not less than what 230.79 requires. However, I don't see an actual requirement for the breaker to be rated at 100A.

If upgrading the service requires $19K and 6 months, there are certainly cheaper ways to put up to 15.9 kW solar on a 100A service (less if there are Powerwalls).

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Vines]

So, 230.79(C) requires the service disconnecting means for a dwelling unit to be rated 100A or more, and 230.42(B) requires the service conductors to be rated not less than what 230.79 requires. However, I don't see an actual requirement for the breaker to be rated at 100A.

If upgrading the service requires $19K and 6 months, there are certainly cheaper ways to put up to 15.9 kW solar on a 100A service (less if there are Powerwalls).

Cheers, Wayne

Aren't the service disconnecting means and the main breaker the same device in most CSED?

 

[wwhitney]

I think that there is a strong argument that, at least for the purposes of the sections mentioned, the maximum size of breaker you can put in is the rating of the service disconnecting means, not the rating of the actual breaker used.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Vines]

When we have tried in the past to downsize below 100A that is the quoted section used as justification to reject us.

Might be a bit of interpretation there for sure.