Not Buying $600 Annual Service Plan Voids Warranty? Isn't That Against the Law?

[Michael2000]

I saw this article about Tesla requiring buyers to purchase the $600 service agreement to keep the warranty in force.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...-service-contract-600-year-or-warranty-voided

However, a manufacturer requiring service only through them appears to be against the Competition and Consumer Act 2010.

http://www.racq.com.au/motoring/cars/car_advice/car_fact_sheets/dealer_v_non-dealer_servicing

Can anyone clarify? I'm a DIY type person, so this is something for me to consider before buying.

Michael

 

[RDoc]

The current statements from Tesla and Elon Musk are that you don't have to buy it, although I don't know if there's been any official statement to that effect that are legally binding.

Originally there was also a statement in the warranty itself saying you couldn't drive outside the US and Canada, i.e. not into Mexico. I don't know if that's still in the warranty document, but there have been statements that the restriction is only if you stay there for a long time. Again, legally, I'm not sure what the actual situation is.

 

[Mario Kadastik]

Ahem, if you don't go for any maintenance at all you still have warranty. This is clearly stated on Tesla website in the blog post by Elon and I have asked for this specifically from Tesla as well. You buy the car and you have warranty until it expires. No strings attached. I can even have body panels (bolt on components) serviced in a local shop because Tesla isn't present in my country. All confirmed by Tesla.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I saw this article about Tesla requiring buyers to purchase the $600 service agreement to keep the warranty in force.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...-service-contract-600-year-or-warranty-voided

However, a manufacturer requiring service only through them appears to be against the Competition and Consumer Act 2010.

http://www.racq.com.au/motoring/cars/car_advice/car_fact_sheets/dealer_v_non-dealer_servicing

I've posted about this before in other threads:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...on(tm)!/page37?p=185003&viewfull=1#post185003
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/10144-Magnusson-Moss-Warranty-Act

Long story short: The actual warranty text (linked here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9578-Warranty-(esp-driving-through-floods!)) does not require service/maintenance at Tesla specifically, nor does it require you to purchase a service plan to keep the warranty (despite what the article says in quoting George, who was using loose language and not legalese).

However the warranty does require proper service/maintenance. And the subtle point is that at this moment in time, certain things have no practical third party that can provide the same service (the annual diagnostics for example). There is no law that requires Tesla provide support to third parties, except for one in Massachusetts ("Right to repair" act). That is the subtly and why George says that the service is required (given that's the practical situation right now).

If I recall correctly was some news that the annual diagnostics may have been waived as a condition, but I will have to search a bit to see if this is true (esp. have to take a look at the most updated version of the warranty).

 

[ToddRLockwood]

The service agreement includes free Ranger Service, and that alone might be well worth the price, especially if you're located more than 100 miles from a service center. As I understand it, you can proceed without the service agreement, but the recommended annual checkup will still cost you $600, and you'll pay extra for Ranger Service. If your car needs brake pads & rotors, which it might after a few years of driving, they are included in the service agreement package. Without the service agreement, you'll pay cash. Think about what you'd typically pay for a brake job on a BMW or Audi.

 

[Michael2000]

Thank you for all the detailed responses.

One thing I am unclear about is the annual diagnostics. If something was wrong with one of the systems of the car, wouldn't a trouble light or warning come on the dash indicating a system fault and a diagnostic code generated? I don't know of any other car that would not alert the driver to take the car in for service the minute an issue arose.

Michael

 

[jerry33]

One thing I am unclear about is the annual diagnostics. If something was wrong with one of the systems of the car, wouldn't a trouble light or warning come on the dash indicating a system fault and a diagnostic code generated?

Only for the systems that are monitored, and maybe they will alert too late.

I don't know of any other car that would not alert the driver to take the car in for service the minute an issue arose.

There are many that don't alert. Low oil, high water temperature, low transmission fluid, low differential fluid. These things don't alert in any car until they have damaged the parts involved.

Examples: I had a car which, after service, had the water temperature go to 231 F (normally 185 and fully open at 214) about two blocks away from the dealer. Turned out they didn't evacuate all the air from the cooling system which caused an air lock. I only knew because I had some supplemental instrumentation. The warning indicators on the car apparently wouldn't have alerted until right before the engine melted.

The last two flats in my Model S didn't activate the TPMS. I found the problem because I check tire pressures and watch the Wh/mile indicator.

It would be nice if the warning system actually warned you, but mainly they tell you after the damage has been done, and many things aren't even monitored at all.

 

[jcaspar]

Long story short: The actual warranty text (linked here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9578-Warranty-(esp-driving-through-floods!)) does not require service/maintenance at Tesla specifically, nor does it require you to purchase a service plan to keep the warranty (despite what the article says in quoting George, who was using loose language and not legalese).

However the warranty does require proper service/maintenance. And the subtle point is that at this moment in time, certain things have no practical third party that can provide the same service (the annual diagnostics for example). There is no law that requires Tesla provide support to third parties, except for one in Massachusetts ("Right to repair" act). That is the subtly and why George says that the service is required (given that's the practical situation right now).

If I recall correctly was some news that the annual diagnostics may have been waived as a condition, but I will have to search a bit to see if this is true (esp. have to take a look at the most updated version of the warranty).

The Model S Annual Service list I have does not list any annual diagnostics. Where have you seen that?

 

[stopcrazypp]

The Model S Annual Service list I have does not list any annual diagnostics. Where have you seen that?

Page 3 of the warranty (late 2012 version) makes reference to:

Maintenance services, including, but not limited to, the following:· Standard 12 month or 12,000 mile service and diagnostics checks;
· Wheel alignment or balancing;
· Appearance care (such as cleaning and polishing); and
· Expendable maintenance items (such as wiper blades/inserts, brake pads/linings, filters, etc.).

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9578-Warranty-(esp-driving-through-floods!)

There are also multiple places that make reference to such diagnostic checks and there was a thread that discussed what happened at those annual checkups.

It seems however it may have been changed in April 2013 (so I remembered correctly in my previous post) since this blog post says:

However, even if you never bring in the car, your warranty is still valid.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/creating-world’s-best-service-and-warranty-program-0

The Tesla Service page says the same thing:
http://www.teslamotors.com/service#/service-plans

 

[matbl]

There are many that don't alert. Low oil, high water temperature, low transmission fluid, low differential fluid. These things don't alert in any car until they have damaged the parts involved.

?
My BMW definitely alert for those. And more...

 

[cwerdna]

The last two flats in my Model S didn't activate the TPMS. I found the problem because I check tire pressures and watch the Wh/mile indicator.

How low did the pressure go when you discovered this? There are FMVSS on TPMS activation and if it didn't per the mandated thresholds, that's worthy of a safety complaint to NHTSA as that would be non-compliance w/a FMVSS.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/TPMS-FMVSS-No138-2005/part1.html is something I quickly dug up via a Google search.

 

[jerry33]

How low did the pressure go when you discovered this? There are FMVSS on TPMS activation and if it didn't per the mandated thresholds, that's worthy of a safety complaint to NHTSA as that would be non-compliance w/a FMVSS.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/TPMS-FMVSS-No138-2005/part1.html is something I quickly dug up via a Google search.

Once it went down by 3 psi, and the other time by 11 psi. The activation floor in the FMVSS shows the alert happens at 20 psi for the Model S' tires. By the time a tire is that low the tire will likely have already suffered irreversible damage. Basically thresholds for the TPMS are useless. This isn't Tesla's fault, it just matches the other alerts in cars where the alert happens seconds before catastrophic failure.

Crying to the government just makes for more silly rules that don't help anyone. Proper driver education is the better route.

- - - Updated - - -

?
My BMW definitely alert for those. And more...

But do they alert for them before damage is done? Almost all the alerts I've seen happen either after it's too late or seconds before failure.

 

[JeremiahJ]

I am buying the service plan, but I am going to hold off on the warranty until the last minute (30 days before expiration of the original warranty). In the past, I haven't really needed an extended warranty until the car is into the 10 year old range. But, I will continue to follow the forums and if it becomes apparent that a warranty extension makes good sense, then I will buy it.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

The service agreement includes free Ranger Service, and that alone might be well worth the price, especially if you're located more than 100 miles from a service center. As I understand it, you can proceed without the service agreement, but the recommended annual checkup will still cost you $600, and you'll pay extra for Ranger Service. If your car needs brake pads & rotors, which it might after a few years of driving, they are included in the service agreement package. Without the service agreement, you'll pay cash. Think about what you'd typically pay for a brake job on a BMW or Audi.

I believe this is not correct. Brake pads, window wipers, etc. are included in the annual service. It's not necessary to take the 4-year service agreement for this. The high cost of each service of $600 was softened by the assurance that it includes the replacement of all items that wear and tear, excluding tires. The only advantage of the service agreement is that you get a discount (four for the price of - almost - three).

 

[jcaspar]

I am buying the service plan, but I am going to hold off on the warranty until the last minute (30 days before expiration of the original warranty). In the past, I haven't really needed an extended warranty until the car is into the 10 year old range. But, I will continue to follow the forums and if it becomes apparent that a warranty extension makes good sense, then I will buy it.

I am going to buy the extended warranty but not the service plan. All the service items I have seen for the Model S are easier than any ICE car I have had and I have done all the service on those.

 

[Lyon]

Others have noted, correctly, that not purchasing the maintenance plan will not void one's warranty, not properly maintaining the car might. Also, this is no different than any other warranty offered by an auto manufacturer. My Chevy has a 100,000 mile power train warranty but I doubt they'll fix the engine if I never change the oil. I'm sure there are service items that need to be taken care of periodically on the Model S that, if left unchecked, might lead to issues.

 

[Michael2000]

Only for the systems that are monitored, and maybe they will alert too late.




There are many that don't alert. Low oil, high water temperature, low transmission fluid, low differential fluid. These things don't alert in any car until they have damaged the parts involved.

Examples: I had a car which, after service, had the water temperature go to 231 F (normally 185 and fully open at 214) about two blocks away from the dealer. Turned out they didn't evacuate all the air from the cooling system which caused an air lock. I only knew because I had some supplemental instrumentation. The warning indicators on the car apparently wouldn't have alerted until right before the engine melted.

The last two flats in my Model S didn't activate the TPMS. I found the problem because I check tire pressures and watch the Wh/mile indicator.

It would be nice if the warning system actually warned you, but mainly they tell you after the damage has been done, and many things aren't even monitored at all.

All ICE cars are required by law to have Onboard Diagnostics for the emission control system. All of my cars also have warnings for low engine oil, and coolant level. All modern cars also have diagnostics for the other computers on the car, and will alert the driver to sensor, and other failures immediately. The idea that Tesla is going to inspect for error codes only annually, because there is no driver alert, indicates either a very poor design, or they are performing a procedure that doesn't need to be done (unless they have customers who ignore warning messages and lights).

Michael

 

[stopcrazypp]

All ICE cars are required by law to have Onboard Diagnostics for the emission control system. All of my cars also have warnings for low engine oil, and coolant level. All modern cars also have diagnostics for the other computers on the car, and will alert the driver to sensor, and other failures immediately. The idea that Tesla is going to inspect for error codes only annually, because there is no driver alert, indicates either a very poor design, or they are performing a procedure that doesn't need to be done (unless they have customers who ignore warning messages and lights).

Michael

I thought the annual diagnostics was physical (not just a look through of error codes, which can be done remotely). Will have to dig and find the thread that discussed this. But anyways, it's not required for the warranty to stay intact, so the point may be moot.

 

[Michael2000]

I thought the annual diagnostics was physical (not just a look through of error codes, which can be done remotely). Will have to dig and find the thread that discussed this. But anyways, it's not required for the warranty to stay intact, so the point may be moot.

I see. That would make more sense.

While thinking about the inspection, there wouldn't seem to be much to inspect. Unlike an ICE car, there are no drive belts, no transmission, no air cleaner. There is a differential brake system, and I assume, a cabin filter. Does the cooling system have any hoses or is it all hardline? Is there a scheduled maintenance guide online? It would be interesting to look at that.

Michael

 

[ABVA]

IMHO, buying a service plan makes a whole lot of sense. It includes not just annual inspection but also 24 hr roadside assistance, Hardware upgrades, changing break pads and wiper blades. I spend a lot more than $600 a year on my LX 570. Tesla is offering the 4 yr service plan (prepaid) for $1,900 which turns out to be only $475 a year. Since I live and work about 30 miles from the Service Center, I do not plan to opt for Ranger Service. My DS told me that given my close proximity to Service Center, Valet Service (No additional cost) is good enough. Tesla will send a rep to my house to pickup my MS and deliver a loaner. Hope this helps.