Not the UK Supercharger Site News thread

[NorfolkMustard]

Moderator comment - thread spun off from UK Supercharger Site News to keep sticky on topic

...and for those who haven't been, a quick video of the BP Chargemaster / Polar new HQ in Milton Keynes, where they have two of their new 150kW chargers (still free for Polar Plus subscribers)

I used to hate going to MK in my old ICE, now I quite like it, with their many roundabouts linked by NSL dual-carriageways...

 

[Mean and Green]

A quick video of Amesbury

"Two S there for the duration" ? What does that mean?

 

[NorfolkMustard]

...of my visit. They were there when I arrived and there when I left ~30 mins later.

 

[Mean and Green]

...of my visit. They were there when I arrived and there when I left ~30 mins later.

Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up, I guess topping up those bigger batteries with slightly slower charging rates need a little longer ?

 

[Drew57]

Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up, I guess topping up those bigger batteries with slightly slower charging rates need a little longer ?

I used the Telford SCs recently & there were two older panda nosed Model S already charging (still there when I left). I spoke to one of the drivers & he believed Tesla throttle back charge rates on older cars to preserve the batteries/avoid the need to replace under warranty. His was charging at only 58kWh @ 55% SOC.

 

[peej]

I used the Telford SCs recently & there were two older panda nosed Model S already charging (still there when I left). I spoke to one of the drivers & he believed Tesla throttle back charge rates on older cars to preserve the batteries/avoid the need to replace under warranty. His was charging at only 58kWh @ 55% SOC.

I'm not sure it's based on age but Tesla admit to keeping a count of DC rapid charging and limiting charging rates after a certain threshold. I don't think anyone outside of Tesla knows what that is but it's fairly high. Does make you wonder about buying a 2nd hand car though if you don't know whether it's mostly had a life of easy-paced A/C electrons overnight or lived fast and loose on the heady rush of DC.

 

[peej]

I'm not sure it's based on age but Tesla admit to keeping a count of DC rapid charging and limiting charging rates after a certain threshold. I don't think anyone outside of Tesla knows what that is but it's fairly high. Does make you wonder about buying a 2nd hand car though if you don't know whether it's mostly had a life of easy-paced A/C electrons overnight or lived fast and loose on the heady rush of DC.

From Tesla via Electrek.co


“The peak charging rate possible in a li-ion cell will slightly decline after a very large number of high-rate charging sessions. This is due to physical and chemical changes inside of the cells. Our fast-charge control technology is designed to keep the battery safe and to preserve the maximum amount of cell capacity (range capability) in all conditions. To maintain safety and retain maximum range, we need to slow down the charge rate when the cells are too cold, when the state of charge is nearly full, and also when the conditions of the cell change gradually with age and usage. This change due to age and usage may increase total Supercharge time by about 5 minutes and less than 1% of our customers experience this.

Tesla is not slowing down charge rates to discourage frequent Supercharging – quite the opposite. We encourage our customers to use the Supercharger network at their discretion and we committed to doubling the number of worldwide chargers just this year. We also want to ensure that our customers have the best experience at those Superchargers and preserve as much vehicle range as possible – even after frequent usage.”

 

[Mean and Green]

Thanks for the info Peej.

It's broadly in line with my experiences at the supercharger recently. My 4 year old Model S performance with just over 50,000 miles still achieves over 100 kw when warmed up and at a lower SOC. The charging split is probably even on home and supercharging.

Assuming that the info is correct It would be logical to assume that all the current models with similar battery technolgy will be subject to limiting charging profiles in the future, when measured against their charging histories or age perhaps? Food for thought!

The best we can hope for are reasonably priced battery replacements when the time comes. It would therefore seem sensible for some of us owners to do more Supercharging and less Homecharging to offset the cost of that forthcoming expense. I'll pop all those 25p's in a jar for when the time comes!

 

[Jason71]

It would therefore seem sensible for some of us owners to do more Supercharging and less Homecharging to offset the cost of that forthcoming expense. I'll pop all those 25p's in a jar for when the time comes!

If you're saving 25p per KWh by supercharging for free rather than charging at home I have an Octopus Energy referal code you can use. I can also offer you a good deal on Tower Bridge.

 

[Mean and Green]

Following on from your post and my previous post, peej... It could be conceivable that after some older model S's and X's have sucked all the useful life out of their current batteries and are due for replacement after years of useful service and planet saving.....

The replacement batteries on offer from Tesla in the future maybe/probably will be of a superior technology. It would be logical to assume that they would be able to accept a faster peak rate charge at a higher sustained rate thereby reducing overall charge times.

It should be considered that those vehicles would then, potentially be free from the software throttling that the battery warranty imposes on us all, allegedly!
Assuming there is an option or not for a battery warranty in the future ... Tesla could open the flood gates and let us charge at even higher rates than we are allowed to today!
The responsibility of nuturing those new batteries will/could fall to us, therfore potentially allowing us the freedom of choice to choose between rapid charge and battery life preservation. Assuming always, that there are no limiting electro-mechcanical or software issues. Perhaps these could be upgraded too if cost effective.

So ... in the not too distant future perhaps.. and dependant upon the various states of batteries out there. A situation could arise, whereby, older model S and X owners with their, either new replacement like for like or upgraded superior batteries with reset or upgraded charging rates, could conceivably witness some Model 3's Y's with their (software limited charging) sat for the duration, of the older model S and X's visit.

All pure hypothesis of course but feasible none the less. Thoughts?

 

[Adopado]

All pure hypothesis of course but feasible none the less. Thoughts?

All very interesting .. but not for this particular thread. I'm as guilty for going off on tangents .. but this thread is supposed to be kept clear for actual news on Supercharger sites.

 

[Mean and Green]

If you're saving 25p per KWh by supercharging for free rather than charging at home I have an Octopus Energy referal code you can use. I can also offer you a good deal on Tower Bridge.

Why would I want to pay 5p a kilowatt hour between 12.30am and 4:30am when I can get it for 0p at anytime at the very nearby supercharger. I am also not limited to a 28kw a night charge at the Supercharger. I'll pop those 5ps in the jar too!
I already have Octopus go but thanks for your kind offer. What's the deal on Tower bridge.....

 

[Mean and Green]

All very interesting .. but not for this particular thread. I'm as guilty for going off on tangents.. but this thread is supposed to be kept clear for actual news on Supercharger sites.

I couldn't agree more. I am just replying to the OP of posts which could be considered non-supercharger site news. Not me gov ... Like you I thought it was meant to be about relevant important site news and up and coming sites.
A bit of banter doesn't hurt though or it could be a tad dull....

 

[Adopado]

I couldn't agree more. I am just replying to the OP of posts which could be considered non-supercharger site news. Not me gov ... Like you I thought it was meant to be about relevant important site news and up and coming sites.
A bit of banter doesn't hurt though or it could be a tad dull....

Most other threads take various entertaining directions but this is a special "sticky" one that we try (and often fail) to keep on track! I'm an offender too (we all get drawn in!) but just thought I should point this out in case it wasn't apparent ... you could make a new thread with your post (?)

 

[Epico]

Is it not ironic that we are now going on a tangent about going on tangents...now I've gone and done it...!

 

[Mean and Green]

Most other threads take various entertaining directions but this is a special "sticky" one that we try (and often fail) to keep on track! I'm an offender too (we all get drawn in!) but just thought I should point this out in case it wasn't apparent ... you could make a new thread with your post (?)

I'll be happy not to veer into the wrong lane again if we can all rememeber the correct route for this thread. Unfortunately, It can be tempting to put your foot down and tailgate flashing and honking when provoked. Maybe we all need a driver awareness refresher course from time to time as you quite rightly point out. I'll consider your pragmatic suggestion for moving my posts to a more suitable thread

 

[Amiable]

Not a Supercharger but there are 2 x 150kW chargers at the BP station in Ashington, West Sussex, RH20 3AT

 

[adsheff]

Is BP the same as Chargemaster and is that the same as Polar? Super confusing - also can you pay with contactless on these yet? Ta

 

[NorfolkMustard]

Yes to all the above

 

[cezdoc]

Further to the discussion up-thread about how long older, or DC limited, cars take to charge, I had a go at estimating Supercharger charge times for my pre-facelift Model S 70 which are summarised in the tables below. I've used a bit of interpolation so it won't be perfect: the black numbers are actual data-points based on fully-warm non-sharing charge sessions.

Some observations:
- my car now charges about 20% slower than when it was new, but for me it's not that noticeable as I rarely do long multi-stop journeys, and when I do I'm not usually in a hurry/trying to catch a ferry etc. - 20% of ~30 minutes is an extra ~5-6 minutes.
- I'm not affected by batterygate (software-update-induced range loss) and there are plenty of examples of other older cars with more limited max charging rates than mine.
- I can mitigate some of the speed loss by setting off and arriving at lower SOC's - I've become more confident to arriving with, say, 5%, over the years as the Nav predictions are very reliable.
- charging from a low SOC to 90% or more can easily take over an hour, and although I try to avoid this situation there are some gaps in the UK network that need a big drink - or if doing a return trip to an area that doesn't have known/reliable alternative charge points.

Charge times when new:

Charge times after ~30K / 3 1/2 years