Nuclear power

[SmartElectric]

buildout of new nuclear plants is critical for reducing CO² emissions and mitigating climate change

Here in Ontario Canada, we are spending $20B to extend the life of a subset of the existing fleet of plants.

Power cost will be 50% greater than before, but the cost of end of life has not been factored into that.

I guess that’s a positive. Ontario will continue to be a very low carbon grid. It’s what you can achieve if cost isn’t the goal.

 

[S'toon]

Has this thread just become a place to post anything negative we can find about nuclear power?

We've got multiple scientific studies and reports concluding that a buildout of new nuclear plants is critical for reducing CO² emissions and mitigating climate change. And yet, all we can find to talk about is some corrosion problems in aging French nuclear plants, and the closing down of TMI?

No, we've got multiple propaganda pieces put out by the nuclear industry saying that we need the most expensive way of generating electricity that takes decades to build to reduce CO2 emissions. Realists realize that we could build new capacity for less, quicker, and without the dangers of nuclear with renewable sources.

 

[nwdiver]

Has this thread just become a place to post anything negative we can find about nuclear power?

Right now we're getting almost 3% of our energy from nuclear. That's kinda nice... right? I mean... it's no 52.5%... but it's not zero. There... now don't say I never had a nice comment about nuclear

 

[S'toon]

Reactor closes early because it's too costly to operate.

The last reactor at the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant in Pennsylvania was finally shut down Friday, marking the end of the operation of the site of the worst civilian nuclear accident in US history.

The plant's first reactor -- which went online in September 1974 -- was shut down at noon local time (1600 GMT), according to the plant's owner Exelon, and the site will be dismantled in the coming weeks.


On March 28, 1979, the second reactor experienced a cooling problem that -- coupled with a human error -- resulted in the partial melting of the reactor and the evacuation of 14,000 people.

There were no casualties, but the incident led to the definitive closure of the reactor and reopened the debate on the potential danger of civilian nuclear power.

Pennsylvania officials had unsuccessfully attempted a bailout, but Exelon decided to close ahead of the end of the license because the plant had been in deficit for many years.

<snip>

Full article at:
Reactor at worst US nuclear accident site finally closed

 

[CSFTN]

Right now we're getting almost 3% of our energy from nuclear. That's kinda nice... right? I mean... it's no 52.5%... but it's not zero. There... now don't say I never had a nice comment about nuclear

View attachment 457368

Excuse me if answered before, but where is this? What region gets 53% from wind, 0% from solar, only 3% from nuclear?

 

[nwdiver]

Excuse me if answered before, but where is this? What region gets 53% from wind, 0% from solar, only 3% from nuclear?

Southwest Power Pool. That's not annual generation but instantaneous at 2am.

This was generation last year. Wind should be a higher percentage in 2019.

 

[tonybelding]

No, we've got multiple propaganda pieces put out by the nuclear industry saying that we need the most expensive way of generating electricity that takes decades to build to reduce CO2 emissions. Realists realize that we could build new capacity for less, quicker, and without the dangers of nuclear with renewable sources.

Propaganda pieces put out by the nuclear industry?

I'm looking at. . . The International Energy Agency. They concluded that meeting the goal of 2 degrees C will require doubling nuclear power's contribution to global energy consumption by mid-century.

I'm looking at the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). They determined that in most scenarios consistent with the target of 1.5 degrees C, nuclear energy would have to more than double.

These are the messages that science deniers on the political left don't want to hear.

 

[mspohr]

Propaganda pieces put out by the nuclear industry?

I'm looking at. . . The International Energy Agency. They concluded that meeting the goal of 2 degrees C will require doubling nuclear power's contribution to global energy consumption by mid-century.

I'm looking at the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). They determined that in most scenarios consistent with the target of 1.5 degrees C, nuclear energy would have to more than double.

These are the messages that science deniers on the political left don't want to hear.

They are shilling for nuclear.
We need to replace all fossil fuels in less than 10 years. You can't build a single nuclear plant in less than 10 years.

 

[miimura]

They are shilling for nuclear.
We need to replace all fossil fuels in less than 10 years. You can't build a single nuclear plant in less than 10 years.

If people really want to promote nuclear to promote decarbonization, they should focus on keeping existing nuclear plants online. The last remaining nuclear generating station operating in California is in the planning stages of shutdown because the utility has figured out that it's not economical to renew its license. There is no impending big ticket maintenance or overhaul that I know of, it's mostly paperwork. Yet, there is no significant effort to subsidize its continued operation for the purpose of decarbonization. Same thing in Germany. They are on a path to shut down all their nuclear generation.

 

[SmartElectric]

If people really want to promote nuclear to promote decarbonization, they should focus on keeping existing nuclear plants online

Ontario Canada is undergoing a $20B retrofit/refurbish of the nuclear fleet that provides 60% of our power.
The fundamental issue, nuclear refit is far far more expensive than any other form of power.

Plus you require a full set of gas plants to back up the nuclear for the refurbish, and those gas plants are very expensive and will not be decommissioned afterwards, which will make competing with an already on the grid (gas) solution more expensive when proposing to provide net new renewable.

Ref:
Why Ontario’s electricity is about to get dirtier | TVO.org


SO : Keeping nuclear on the grid in Ontario has been a 15 year planning exercise that has left Ontario with only one option, run those gas plants we paid billions for (as a requirement to back up the nuclear) as primary power post-refit.

Large scale power means large scale backup.
If one house with solar+battery drops off the grid, who gives a F%^CK, but when a nuclear plant drops off the grid, it needs a 100% backup, which is gas.

Therefore, nuclear requires gas. Period. The two are locked together. Once "big-gas" is on the grid, they are going to stay there!

 

[SmartElectric]

Here is another example of "breakthrough factory-manufactured "cheap" Nuclear power":
In Canada, nuclear power is green

2028 is the estimated time to have one running.

I am planning 3.5kW of solar + battery for my home, should take care of a goodly portion of our (lowish) daily power needs.

Already implemented drain heat water recovery, first gas bill since was $15, less than half our usual in summer, we're getting two showers for the price of one, total cost $500.

Also charge our EV's overnight on excess Nuclear power here in Ontario so it's not boiled away.

Every little big helps.

 

[mspohr]

Nuclear energy too slow, too expensive to save climate: report

In mid-2019, new wind and solar generators competed efficiently against even existing nuclear power plants in cost terms, and grew generating capacity faster than any other power type, the annual World Nuclear Industry Status Report (WNISR) showed.

“Stabilizing the climate is urgent, nuclear power is slow,” said Mycle Schneider, lead author of the report. “It meets no technical or operational need that low-carbon competitors cannot meet better, cheaper and faster.”
Over the past decade, the WNISR estimates levelized costs - which compare the total lifetime cost of building and running a plant to lifetime output - for utility-scale solar have dropped by 88% and for wind by 69%.

For nuclear, they have increased by 23%, it said.

 

[mspohr]

Hinkley Point nuclear plant building costs rise by up to £2.9bn

Hinkley Point nuclear plant building costs rise by up to £2.9bn

The cost of building the UK’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation has risen by up to £2.9bn to more than £22bn, and is running the risk of further delays.

EDF Energy said the construction bill for Hinkley Point C in Somerset had climbed by between £1.9bn to £2.9bn from the company’s last estimates, while the cost of renewable energy has plummeted.

The cost overrun has also reignited debate over whether the government should pursue an expensive new nuclear renaissance while the cost of renewable energy becomes cheaper. The cost of supporting new offshore wind farms from the mid-2020s fell to record lows of around £40 per megawatt hour of electricity last week in an auction for government contracts, less than half the cost of Hinkley Point C.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Hinkley Point nuclear plant building costs rise by up to £2.9bn

Hinkley Point nuclear plant building costs rise by up to £2.9bn

The cost of building the UK’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation has risen by up to £2.9bn to more than £22bn, and is running the risk of further delays.

EDF Energy said the construction bill for Hinkley Point C in Somerset had climbed by between £1.9bn to £2.9bn from the company’s last estimates, while the cost of renewable energy has plummeted.

The cost overrun has also reignited debate over whether the government should pursue an expensive new nuclear renaissance while the cost of renewable energy becomes cheaper. The cost of supporting new offshore wind farms from the mid-2020s fell to record lows of around £40 per megawatt hour of electricity last week in an auction for government contracts, less than half the cost of Hinkley Point C.

The latest offshore wind bids are anticipating new, bigger turbines to come. Recent UK North Sea wind farm capacity factors are in the mid 40s%. With taller, larger turbines, capacity factors are expected to rise further.

 

[SageBrush]

I'm looking at the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). They determined that in most scenarios consistent with the target of 1.5 degrees C, nuclear energy would have to more than double.

What is the rationale and when was it written ?

If you are referencing IPCC 1.5 then the actual text is this from Chapter 2

14 Nuclear power increases its share in most 1.5°C pathways by 2050, but in some pathways both the absolute 15 capacity and share of power from nuclear generators declines (Table 2.15). There are large differences in 16 nuclear power between models and across pathways (Kim et al., 2014; Rogelj et al., 2018). One of the 17 reasons for this variation is that the future deployment of nuclear can be constrained by societal preferences 18 assumed in narratives underlying the pathways (O’Neill et al., 2017; van Vuuren et al., 2017b). Some 1.5°C 19 pathways no longer see a role for nuclear fission by the end of the century, while others project over 200 EJ yr–1 20 of nuclear power in 2100 (Figure 2.15).

You should note that the authors make it quite clear that nuclear is not a requirement as a matter of scientific analysis, it is included in scenarios as an alternative and presumed to be a political preference.

 

[Zapped]

Southwest Power Pool. That's not annual generation but instantaneous at 2am.

This was generation last year. Wind should be a higher percentage in 2019.

View attachment 457531

That is very interesting. Never thought nuclear would be that low.
Sweden has 30-40% nuclear generation. Other countries in the control room vary widely as well
The control room

 

[SmartElectric]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

World’s Largest Nuclear Power Producer Confronts Serial Glitches

France is struggling with their investment in Nuclear power. New plants are over budget and existing investments are poorly managed and in need of billions of reinvestment.

 

[Brando]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

World’s Largest Nuclear Power Producer Confronts Serial Glitches

France is struggling with their investment in Nuclear power. New plants are over budget and existing investments are poorly managed and in need of billions of reinvestment.

Not even the French can keep out the conmen & crooks (read government corporate contractors) who make sure Nuclear is the most dangerous & expensive way to boil water. AND the most profitable.

 

[tonybelding]

Not even the French can keep out the conmen & crooks (read government corporate contractors) who make sure Nuclear is the most dangerous & expensive way to boil water. AND the most profitable.

I suggest comparing the safety track record of nuclear with other sources of power generation.

 

[mspohr]

I suggest comparing the safety track record of nuclear with other sources of power generation.

I know. Nobody has ever been killed in a nuclear power plant explosion but people fall off roofs all the time.
Like CO2, the nuclear waste, contamination and radiation dosing to individuals are not counted in the "cost" of nuclear power.