Octopus Energy Saving Sessions

[Stranger Dings]

Does anyone know how the Octopus ”Power Hour” energy saving sessions are actually calculated?

I’ve taken part in all of them, but the results just seem totally random.

I’ve had sessions where we’ve switched off as much as we can and gone out, only to be told that we didn’t manage to save anything.

Some sessions, we’ve made very small savings, Including one where virtually everything was switched off and the whole family was in another country.

One session I forgot it was happening despite signing up, only to be told I’d managed to save 93% of my normal usage and be credited with over £16 off!

I’ll continue to sign up for them and don’t really do it expecting to save much as we are already quite energy efficient. It all just seems so random.

 

[Redbaron73]

umm.. why you don't have export tariff? do you have solar system?

I do but export isnt my focus 16kWh batts and dump the rest in to the car/hot tub mainly.. so in real world i export very little unless we get 5+days of pure sun.

 

[ACarneiro]

I do but export isnt my focus 16kWh batts and dump the rest in to the car/hot tub mainly.. so in real world i export very little unless we get 5+days of pure sun.

Well, it costs you nothing to export. In fact, you can export at twice what it costs you to import, making self-consumption not a great idea currently.
On top of that, you can use your battery to make a tidy sum over the winter Saving Sessions.

Seems like a no-brainer to me

 

[GRiLLA]

Well, it costs you nothing to export. In fact, you can export at twice what it costs you to import, making self-consumption not a great idea currently.
On top of that, you can use your battery to make a tidy sum over the winter Saving Sessions.

Seems like a no-brainer to me

Even without the financial incentive, it makes environmental sense. During the day when there is typically significant demand your solar power is consumed likely in place of fossil fuels, and then overnight when there are typically more renewables on the grid you charge your car, heat the bubbly sex pond etc.

Charge your batteries overnight on cheap green electricity and maximise your export during the day.

 

[ACarneiro]

Even without the financial incentive, it makes environmental sense. During the day when there is typically significant demand your solar power is consumed likely in place of fossil fuels, and then overnight when there are typically more renewables on the grid you charge your car, heat the bubbly sex pond etc.

Charge your batteries overnight on cheap green electricity and maximise your export during the day.

This is not always necessarily true, especially outside of the winter months.
I have noticed that there have been multiple occasions when carbon intensity was greater overnight (when I'm charging my batteries) than during the day (when I'm injecting power into the grid), usually because of the vagaries of wind. This is especially true in the summer when solar production is more reliable during the day (he says, looking out the windows and seeing nothing but clouds).
I would REALLY like to see Octopus controlling my batteries as discharging them (and paying me accordingly) when carbon intensity is highest regardless of the time of day.
Alas, that time is a long way away. Although there have been great strides made, the system and tariffs are still quite inflexible.

 

[GRiLLA]

This is not always necessarily true, especially outside of the winter months.
I have noticed that there have been multiple occasions when carbon intensity was greater overnight (when I'm charging my batteries) than during the day (when I'm injecting power into the grid), usually because of the vagaries of wind. This is especially true in the summer when solar production is more reliable during the day (he says, looking out the windows and seeing nothing but clouds).
I would REALLY like to see Octopus controlling my batteries as discharging them (and paying me accordingly) when carbon intensity is highest regardless of the time of day.
Alas, that time is a long way away. Although there have been great strides made, the system and tariffs are still quite inflexible.

It works on average, there will be exceptions. I'm less sure that forcing discharge is as valuable given charging losses and battery degradation increase the carbon cost.

 

[ACarneiro]

It works on average, there will be exceptions. I'm less sure that forcing discharge is as valuable given charging losses and battery degradation increase the carbon cost.

Fair point.
I suspect it's still probably worth is. There are plenty of days with very significant differences between the "cleanest" and "dirtiest" hours.
Today, for example, "clean o'clock" is about half the carbon intensity of "dirty o'clock".

 

[Pink Duck]

During the Saving Sessions period I noticed that the greenest carbon of the day often overlapped evening peak for my region. I’ve also noticed that Octopus favour cheaper-for-the operator over greener-for-the-grid fairly often.

I export my left-over solar production starting 23:30 so at least the nearby EVs can charge from greener electrons.

 

[ACarneiro]

During the Saving Sessions period I noticed that the greenest carbon of the day often overlapped evening peak for my region. I’ve also noticed that Octopus favour cheaper-for-the operator over greener-for-the-grid fairly often.

Well, it's a fine balancing act. They are still a commercial entity, after all.

 

[thewishy]

I would REALLY like to see Octopus controlling my batteries as discharging them (and paying me accordingly) when carbon intensity is highest regardless of the time of day.

They had Tesla Energy Plan and now have Intelligent Octopus Flux where you get this. What gets complicated is that a typical tesla owner wants this, but also want to charge a car cheaply too, and maybe run the heatpump cheaply in the night and afternoon. It gets complicated once multiple technologies get involved. The argument would be that Agile is there for people who want to balance these sort of things, but it's quite the commitment

I'd like Octopus to be more API centric, I'd like to be able to at least ask octopus when would be best to charge the battery, I've got a max of 3hrs charging in a 6 hour window, I could definitely load shift that, even if there wasn't any financial reward

 

[Pink Duck]

Since Tesla modified their API to their own SDK and Octopus now has some OAuth2 grants over that, it really wouldn’t be much effort for them to extend to controlling Powerwall too and make that offering per IO Flux. Perhaps they are doing this, perhaps not.

 

[ACarneiro]

Since Tesla modified their API to their own SDK and Octopus now has some OAuth2 grants over that, it really wouldn’t be much effort for them to extend to controlling Powerwall too and make that offering per IO Flux. Perhaps they are doing this, perhaps not.

I have emailed them a couple times asking for them to be able to control the Powerwalls. They always said "no plans".
Does the new API allow control of Powerwall parameters, then?

 

[Pink Duck]

Seems capable of changing Powerwall’s operating mode, grid charge and export settings, plus backup reserve but not the tariff price plan. The latter is needed to encourage discharge and charging at certain times, so maybe that capability will come from Tesla at some point.

These are the available/required grants:

Energy Product Information	energy_device_data
Energy Product Settings	energy_cmds

 

[Redbaron73]

Well, it costs you nothing to export. In fact, you can export at twice what it costs you to import, making self-consumption not a great idea currently.
On top of that, you can use your battery to make a tidy sum over the winter Saving Sessions.

Seems like a no-brainer to me

Except i get paid nothing for export. So I dont bother.

 

[yessuz]

Except i get paid nothing for export. So I dont bother.

why?! why you did not setup your export?

 

[ACarneiro]

Except i get paid nothing for export. So I dont bother.

That's my point. Setting up export costs no money upfront and has no running costs. I can't imagine what your personal circumstances would be that you wouldn't want to do it....
Genuinely confused here...

 

[Whyone]

Except i get paid nothing for export. So I dont bother.

Help the country with your excess generation and get paid for it....where is the downside?!

 

[Drew57]

That's my point. Setting up export costs no money upfront and has no running costs. I can't imagine what your personal circumstances would be that you wouldn't want to do it....
Genuinely confused here...

Unless still on the old FIT scheme where you are additionally paid for 50% of everything you generate as deemed export regardless of whether you use every bit of it (which I often manage) or not. I've already recouped about 30% of the initial PV/Battery cost and still have 17 years of the scheme remaining.

 

[ACarneiro]

Unless still on the old FIT scheme where you are additionally paid for 50% of everything you generate as deemed export regardless of whether you use every bit of it (which I often manage) or not. I've already recouped about 30% of the initial PV/Battery cost and still have 17 years of the scheme remaining.

That's a good point. Never had the pleasure so it hadn't crossed my mind

 

[yessuz]

That's a good point. Never had the pleasure so it hadn't crossed my mind

but you are paid for export as well. and chap above doesn't

 

[Pink Duck]

ESO posted that domestic DFS has been scrapped this upcoming winter. No test events (reserve the right with GAP though), pay-as-bid still and likely only evening peak ones. Can be revenue stacked with DNO flexibility balancing services, with proposal for penalty for under-delivery (reduced payments below 50%, nothing below 25%) and no extra payment (except for DFS guaranteeing contingency market requirement) for over-delivery (120%+). Reward per MWh, where varying, to be placed into discrete DFS Units. Still nothing for demand turn-up until future, also possibly call-off style dispatch later on. No day-ahead, only in-day.

Updated Winter 2023/24 report

Presentation about DFS commerical proposal