OEM HEPA filters done after 1~ year?

[Dangaurd_Ace]

Hea team...yea yea late to the party again, I figured I would give am alternative insight to what the HEPA voodoo magic is/does

HEPA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.britannica.com/technology/high-efficiency-particulate-air-system.

Really good read History and facts about HEPA filters | Camfil

Of course your use and exposure will vary. My background we changed the HEPA element quarterly/every 90 days regardless of condition...
with that said...were you operating in BIO-WEAPONS MODE driving in and out of a smokey, nasty air quality enviroment for days? did you drive through a dust storm.....were you in the vicinity of a political group yelling and breathing....did you drive through central/eastern Washington in the summer...did you drive over a month of heavy humidity....were you someplace like hawaii that had 40 days of rain?
what is your health worth...lung infections, or any other ailment?
Lastly---the filter(s) in any HVAC system, is to "first" protect the condenser and evaporator from dirt/dust getting stuck to the coils reducing efficiency.

Tesla put a very well thought-out HVAC system in their cars, and what we paid for them, goes to that saying, how much should you spend on a helmet what's your head worth?

it's a very complicated filter system, and the recommendation is (x) to change, be your own grown up.
good luck and stay safe out there

 

[kpanda17]

Hea team...yea yea late to the party again, I figured I would give am alternative insight to what the HEPA voodoo magic is/does

HEPA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.britannica.com/technology/high-efficiency-particulate-air-system.

Really good read History and facts about HEPA filters | Camfil

Of course your use and exposure will vary. My background we changed the HEPA element quarterly/every 90 days regardless of condition...
with that said...were you operating in BIO-WEAPONS MODE driving in and out of a smokey, nasty air quality enviroment for days? did you drive through a dust storm.....were you in the vicinity of a political group yelling and breathing....did you drive through central/eastern Washington in the summer...did you drive over a month of heavy humidity....were you someplace like hawaii that had 40 days of rain?
what is your health worth...lung infections, or any other ailment?
Lastly---the filter(s) in any HVAC system, is to "first" protect the condenser and evaporator from dirt/dust getting stuck to the coils reducing efficiency.

Tesla put a very well thought-out HVAC system in their cars, and what we paid for them, goes to that saying, how much should you spend on a helmet what's your head worth?

it's a very complicated filter system, and the recommendation is (x) to change, be your own grown up.
good luck and stay safe out there

great points you state about conditions affecting filter life/health
I now have two M3s using 2024.14.9 which has measured filter health in the service menu
Interesting how the newer M3's filter has a lower filter health number that the older M3, newer 12/2023 vs older 3/2023
the difference is the newer M3 has been in southern Virginia or 500 miles south of the older M3
climate temp, pollen, particles def affect the life/health of filters and makes sense that most of the Tesla owners in the south have more filter issues/smell than those up north
your idea of proactive filter change is great but
without a smell indicator, isn't the service menu filter health a great way to gauge when to change the cabin filter?
do we have a filter health indicator in the service menu for the hepa filter? I did not see that

btw, know its a touchy subject, but imagine that sensors on the wipers could warn you to inspect them for possible replacement?
love sensors

 

[fiehlsport]

My HEPA filter is showing 80% but my car struggles to blow air through the vents. My new HEPA filter set comes today. I will reset the filter life gauge in the service menu.

There is no way this filter percentage can possibly be accurate on cars that are already delivered, because the gauge was introduced after the vehicle had been driven for x years or x miles. I would think that only after it is reset at the time of a filter replacement would it start being able to accurately calculate the degradation factors for a meaningful number that makes sense.

 

[kpanda17]

My HEPA filter is showing 80% but my car struggles to blow air through the vents. My new HEPA filter set comes today. I will reset the filter life gauge in the service menu.

There is no way this filter percentage can possibly be accurate on cars that are already delivered, because the gauge was introduced after the vehicle had been driven for x years or x miles. I would think that only after it is reset at the time of a filter replacement would it start being able to accurately calculate the degradation factors for a meaningful number that makes sense.

good point, can you screen shoot where you can see the hepa filter health? also, a link for changing the hepa filter

 

[zroger73]

There is no way this filter percentage can possibly be accurate on cars that are already delivered, because the gauge was introduced after the vehicle had been driven for x years or x miles.

It can if it is calculating pressure drop by measuring blower current and using a software model of the system.

I strongly suspect this is what is happening else I would expect both of my filters to indicate 100% health when the filter health indicator was added 14 months and 20K miles after my vehicle was manufactured.

Also, since my post showing 63% HEPA and 107% cabin filter health, the vehicle is now indicating 70% HEPA and 110% cabin filter health which is more evidence that the vehicle is estimating filter health based on an actual measurement instead of a "countdown timer". If the health monitor were using the latter, the indicated filter life would not increase.

My HEPA filter is showing 80% but my car struggles to blow air through the vents. My new HEPA filter set comes today. I will reset the filter life gauge in the service menu.

I would replace the filters and monitor the filter health indicator for a few days without resetting it to see if it changes significantly. If the filter health indicator is based on an actual measurement as I suspect, I would expect the filter health to increase on its own.

 

[fiehlsport]

It can if it is calculating pressure drop by measuring blower current and using a software model of the system.

--

I would replace the filters and monitor the filter health indicator for a few days without resetting it to see if it changes significantly. If the filter health indicator is based on an actual measurement as I suspect, I would expect the filter health to increase on its own.

Right, I just find it odd that mine is such a high percentage given that I can barely get any air out of the vents. You'd think if that were the case, the health would show a lot lower.

I'd be willing to test your theory to see if the health changes up or down - I'll report back once it's changed and see what the health % does.

 

[zroger73]

Right, I just find it odd that mine is such a high percentage given that I can barely get any air out of the vents. You'd think if that were the case, the health would show a lot lower.

I'd be willing to test your theory to see if the health changes up or down - I'll report back once it's changed and see what the health % does.

I'm in a similar boat. I noticed an increase in blower speed and a dramatic reduction in air flow in fresh air mode after a year and 18K miles. It's been warm enough outside that the system spends most of its time in recirculation mode, so I've been delaying changing my HEPA filters.

Very roughly, I'd estimate air flow is currently 25% of what it was when new, yet the vehicle is reporting 70% HEPA filter health - that's too much of a difference to be subjective.

After Tesla added the filter health indicator, I wanted to temporarily remove the filters to see if the indicator would increase from 63% to 100% (or more). But, if I'm going through the trouble of removing them, I might as well just replace them and I'm not quite ready to do that.

The fact that it displays more than 100% health is even more evidence that it is measuring something instead of just counting down based on a preset number.

 

[fiehlsport]

Done... now to go for a few drives and see what service mode says! HEPA was at 84%, Cabin at 100%. I replaced everything including the interior carbon filters as well. This car has a ridiculous amount of filtration. Our EV9 has a single, crappy paper filter in the frunk, for a car with 2x the interior volume.

 

[zroger73]

Done... now to go for a few drives and see what service mode says! HEPA was at 84%, Cabin at 100%. I replaced everything including the interior carbon filters as well. This car has a ridiculous amount of filtration. Our EV9 has a single, crappy paper filter in the frunk, for a car with 2x the interior volume.

View attachment 1055527

Some additional thoughts:

Assuming filter health is being calculated using measurements and a software model rather than estimated based on time, distance, or blower speed, I don't understand the presence of a reset button for the filters.

I don't know how long it might take to reflect changes in filter health. I don't know under what conditions the health is calculated. In order to measure HEPA filter health, fresh air would have to be selected and cabin filter health would have to be calculated first since since all of the air that passes through the HEPA filters also passes through the cabin filters. In order to calculate cabin filter health, recirculated air would have to be selected. And, presumably, the blower speed would have to be high enough at some point to give an accurate calculation. And, vehicle speed would need to be factored in (due to ram air or venturi effect) along with making sure the cabin is sealed to an expected level (doors and windows closed).

As to why filter health is showing to be greater than 100%, maybe that results from air bypassing the filter(s) due to a poor seal. Or, maybe the filters are less restrictive than the software model.

Now that I go further down this rabbit hole, I suppose a reset button is there to give the vehicle a point of reference to compensate for vehicle-to-vehicle variances. By resetting the filter health, you've told the vehicle that it has new filters so the calculations of health can be more accurate to account for these variances. Otherwise, it must assume every vehicle conforms exactly to the software model which may explain why the filter health currently being displayed does not match expectations or exceeds 100%.

I bet once the filters are replaced and the filter health is manually reset, we'll see more accurate numbers. I believe the numbers we are seeing now aren't accurate because until now, there hasn't been a way to tell the vehicle it has new filters...and aftermarket filters can have different flow characteristics than the OE filters.

Still, if you notice the filter health indication increase after replacing/removing the filters and NOT resetting the filter health, this basically proves that some actual measurement is going on (not just estimating) and at that point, you can go ahead and reset the filter health and it should be more accurate from that point.

 

[kpanda17]

Not sure if it was covered but 14.9 spring update also provides hepa filter health in the service

menu/hvac/right
And we covered Tesla has the best deal for Ts with hepa for at $90 you get all three filters

What’s the lowest health we all agree on for filter changes, if no smell?
80%
60%

 

[Dangaurd_Ace]

great points you state about conditions affecting filter life/health
I now have two M3s using 2024.14.9 which has measured filter health in the service menu
Interesting how the newer M3's filter has a lower filter health number that the older M3, newer 12/2023 vs older 3/2023
the difference is the newer M3 has been in southern Virginia or 500 miles south of the older M3
climate temp, pollen, particles def affect the life/health of filters and makes sense that most of the Tesla owners in the south have more filter issues/smell than those up north
your idea of proactive filter change is great but
without a smell indicator, isn't the service menu filter health a great way to gauge when to change the cabin filter?
do we have a filter health indicator in the service menu for the hepa filter? I did not see that

btw, know its a touchy subject, but imagine that sensors on the wipers could warn you to inspect them for possible replacement?
love sensors

I have a love/hate relationship with sensors...like when they work, good, the fluxcapacitor is fluxing, when they aren't...check for voltage, check for wear, check amazon for replacement...does some vintage electronic shop in yokohama japan have a 1984 8.73 volt feeler thingy
the ventilation sensors I work one, some read airflow, some read duration, some read gas accumulation...(x) amount of C02 has run across, then the sensor craps out.

one of my data sensors have has a high filter rating on the filters, and have to change monthly. it so clean, but, if you get a humidity streak, the filters clog, coolers trip, people scream...

 

[kpanda17]

Not sure if it was covered but 14.9 spring update also provides hepa filter health in the service View attachment 1055578
menu/hvac/right
And we covered Tesla has the best deal for Ts with hepa for at $90 you get all three filters

What’s the lowest health we all agree on for filter changes, if no smell?
80%
60%

My bad guys, misread what is included
Tesla shop sells 2x hepa pair for $90
It does not include the cabin filters
Know Basenor sells knockoff Hepa filters also

 

[Midnightsun]

Not sure how the new filter contamination gauge works however the is only 1 way to determine this and that would be through airflow differential taken before and after filtration. Tesla seems to have done something that may measure blower power draw however that would be a rough estimate at best not to mention any aftermarket filter used would throw that way off.

 

[fiehlsport]

I had the climate on for about 30 minutes last night. No change to the numbers after a new set of 6 filters. I'll give it another day or two before I reset the stats on mine.

One thing of note, the HEPA filters are on a "B" revision now. My 2022 came with the "A" revision. The only difference I can tell is to the rubber seal that goes around the HEPA filter, it is much different.

After seeing the quality and weight of the Tesla cabin & HEPA filters, I would never go aftermarket. The Tesla filters are justifiably expensive. These are all high quality German filters.

 

[fiehlsport]

What’s the lowest health we all agree on for filter changes, if no smell?
80%
60%

If this gauge worked properly, which it may or may not at this juncture, I would think that 10-15% would be the correct reading for a car that needs a filter change.

Since my airflow was terrible at an 80% reading, I think we can gather that it doesn't work very well yet, or didn't have enough data to be trained on to provide a valid number. It should have been 0-10% for mine, if it was working correctly.

 

[zroger73]

Not sure how the new filter contamination gauge works however the is only 1 way to determine this and that would be through airflow differential taken before and after filtration. Tesla seems to have done something that may measure blower power draw however that would be a rough estimate at best not to mention any aftermarket filter used would throw that way off.

Using fan laws and the blower's performance curve, pressure and flow can be calculated very accurately using blower speed and brake horsepower. The blower is direct drive, so it turns at the same speed as the motor. The motor speed and current are known by the motor controller. The brake horsepower can be accurately calculated using the motor performance curve.

I suspect that by resetting the filter health indicator, you are setting the baseline to compensate for slight vehicle-to-vehicle differences such as manufacturing tolerances and filters with different flow characteristics, which could result from using different brands of filters or even changes to Tesla's own filters (such as A vs. B revision mentioned above).

I believe the reason we are currently seeing unexpectedly high percentages for filter health is because there was no baseline pressure set for the specific vehicle and the filters that were installed in it, so the vehicle is attempting to calculate filter health based on a default pressure. In other words, if the software model expects a pressure drop of 0.2 inches WC based on this default value and the pressure drop is actually 0.15 inches WC, it may indicate 133% filter health.

If my hunches are correct, resetting the filter health after filter replacement will result in more accurate indications of filter health even when using aftermarket filters because you will be teaching the vehicle what the pressure should be with new filters.

At what percentage should the filters be replaced? I suppose that depends on the application and conditions. As the filters become clogged, the maximum cabin cooling and heating are reduced due to the reduction of flow - less air over the evaporator and condensors means less heat they can transfer from or to the cabin air. In mild conditions where little heating or cooling are required, you may not notice a filter that is almost completely clogged, although you may hear the blower spinning faster over time under certain conditions. However, if the cabin is very cold or very hot, you may notice that it takes longer to heat or cool*.

*Depending on which filters are clogged. In my case, my cabin filters are in good health, so I haven't noticed any reduction in recirculated air flow, which is what you will have when cooling a hot cabin on a hot day or warming a cold cabin on a cold day, for example. However, my HEPA filters are in poor health. Since only fresh air flows through the HEPA filters, I do notice a significant reduction in air flow when the vehicle is trying to push hot air out of the cabin when cooling first starts after the vehicle has been sitting in the sun or on mild days where there difference between outside and cabin temperatures is small and the system chooses fresh air.

 

[kpanda17]

My bad guys, misread what is included
Tesla shop sells 2x hepa pair for $90
It does not include the cabin filters
Know Basenor sells knockoff Hepa filters also

1x Kit provides

Tesla $90
Basenor $70

Btw, except for the excessive screws, looks easier than the cabin filter change

 

[fiehlsport]

Yeah, the HEPA kit is for four filters (2 paper 2 carbon) under the frunk. The cabin carbon filters are extra. This car has a total of six air filters. Wild!

After doing both yesterday, I'd say the HEPA and cabin filters are about the same duration and skill level. I got slightly more frustrated at the cabin change, ripping the side panel off of the center console can be tough. Words were said.

 

[kpanda17]

Yeah, the HEPA kit is for four filters (2 paper 2 carbon) under the frunk. The cabin carbon filters are extra. This car has a total of six air filters. Wild!

After doing both yesterday, I'd say the HEPA and cabin filters are about the same duration and skill level. I got slightly more frustrated at the cabin change, ripping the side panel off of the center console can be tough. Words were said.

my feeling as well, i'd rather remove 10-20 screws in the fronk vs crawling under the dash and pulling back carpet
also six filters, wow
for the MY hepa, the left and right pair, which one is on top? carbon or hepa? also we move the rubber gaskets from the old filters to the new filters

 

[fiehlsport]

my feeling as well, i'd rather remove 10-20 screws in the fronk vs crawling under the dash and pulling back carpet
also six filters, wow
for the MY hepa, the left and right pair, which one is on top? carbon or hepa? also we move the rubber gaskets from the old filters to the new filters

Carbon is on top in the frunk housing. The new filters come with new rubber gaskets. (At least the ones from Tesla do)