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I have recently started making more use of Spotify, so I operate the UI more, yet I want to keep the rear view camera and map displayed as much as possible.
It is always a complete mess what windows appear where - add to that the door and seat dialogs Model X keeps popping up all the time, it is really quite bad in some ways. If map is on top, then Music appears on bottom when selected... but rear-view appears on top of the map when selected! Why!?!?
Also, the logic in which the rear-view camera and ultrasonic lines appear is competely weird. If the rear-view camera is in some window, it will not show the ultrasonic line box... but if the rear-view camera is under a Model X door/seat dialog, it will actually show none of it on the big screen! No lines, no camera... just the Model X door/seat dialog... Now if I don't have rear-view camera open under the Model X dialog, then it will open the big pop-up that shows the camera and the ultrasonics...
Frankly, I would like to see the big pop-up every time I start reversing. My preference to show the rear-view camera in other situations should not have any bearing on that... let alone Model X's door/seat popups!
Mine is also forgetting stations shortcuts now on the steering wheel side... I have to re-enter them all the time... (Instrument cluster (steering wheel) forgetting radio favorites?)
Yeah, it is a mess.
It is always a complete mess what windows appear where - add to that the door and seat dialogs Model X keeps popping up all the time, it is really quite bad in some ways. If map is on top, then Music appears on bottom when selected... but rear-view appears on top of the map when selected! Why!?!?
Also, the logic in which the rear-view camera and ultrasonic lines appear is competely weird. If the rear-view camera is in some window, it will not show the ultrasonic line box... but if the rear-view camera is under a Model X door/seat dialog, it will actually show none of it on the big screen! No lines, no camera... just the Model X door/seat dialog... Now if I don't have rear-view camera open under the Model X dialog, then it will open the big pop-up that shows the camera and the ultrasonics...
Frankly, I would like to see the big pop-up every time I start reversing. My preference to show the rear-view camera in other situations should not have any bearing on that... let alone Model X's door/seat popups!
Mine is also forgetting stations shortcuts now on the steering wheel side... I have to re-enter them all the time... (Instrument cluster (steering wheel) forgetting radio favorites?)
Yeah, it is a mess.
deonb
Active Member
Agreed. It's very obvious that the people who design the software don't actually drive the car as their primary vehicle.
Hopefully this will change with the Model 3 - but I'm afraid what is going to happen is that there will be huge priority given to the center display, and the driver display will become a secondary "also ran" display.
I too have started keeping the media player on the top just so the menu bar stays up- I don't understand why they thought the extra inch of screen was necessary for the map view. I hope they eventually fix it.
Not directly related, but I don't understand why Tesla doesn't give US owners an additional, Spotify app (which has already been developed and deployed in Europe over a year ago) whereby we can use our personal Spotify accounts. Free streaming can continue through Slacker, I don't care, but it would be great if I could have a direct way to interface w/ Spotify and play music using Tesla's UI rather than streaming over Bluetooth and having to use the small screen on my phone.
I'm one of the rare owners on these forums who actually likes the map auto-expand. It's great for most of my traveling purposes.
However, there is absolutely ZERO reason that I can think of why they can't just have an option under the map app for "expand to top" that you can tick or untick. Why not give us the option? I can set my fan speed to many arbitrary numbers or even adjust my summon range to proximities I'll personally never use, but I don't have the power to opt out or opt in of map auto-expand based on driver preference?
However, there is absolutely ZERO reason that I can think of why they can't just have an option under the map app for "expand to top" that you can tick or untick. Why not give us the option? I can set my fan speed to many arbitrary numbers or even adjust my summon range to proximities I'll personally never use, but I don't have the power to opt out or opt in of map auto-expand based on driver preference?
For me the auto-expand isn't even the biggest issue. It is the lack of logic by which certain apps go to down or up windows, as well as how the rear-view camera display affects the parking pop-up appearance.
I could personally live with the hiding icons.
That said, I would really like to see the date somewhere at all times. This is one of those things that 6.2 had so great and now one must work to get it displayed somewhere...
I could personally live with the hiding icons.
That said, I would really like to see the date somewhere at all times. This is one of those things that 6.2 had so great and now one must work to get it displayed somewhere...
Maybe it's just me but 90% of the time I don't ever have the map up as most of the time I'm just driving around local areas I know. When traveling though it's nice. I also hate the auto expanding map & as others have mentioned I would love to have a checkbox somewhere to disable it.
I'm starting to wonder if the limited power of the MCU has a lot to do with the design choices they have made with the user interface. Some people have mentioned that they really like to have Spotify as an app. (As it is in Europe ). I'd love to see a major-league baseball app so I could listen to games on my MLB live subscription. Obviously video is a no go.
I'm sure others would love the ability to add the equivalent app from the NBA, or NFL, etc...
Perhaps when the model three is finally rolled out we will see an upgraded MCU that is capable of running additional apps that the existing hardware in the model S/X is not capable of running thanks to Tegra 3.
I'm starting to wonder if the limited power of the MCU has a lot to do with the design choices they have made with the user interface. Some people have mentioned that they really like to have Spotify as an app. (As it is in Europe ). I'd love to see a major-league baseball app so I could listen to games on my MLB live subscription. Obviously video is a no go.
I'm sure others would love the ability to add the equivalent app from the NBA, or NFL, etc...
Perhaps when the model three is finally rolled out we will see an upgraded MCU that is capable of running additional apps that the existing hardware in the model S/X is not capable of running thanks to Tegra 3.
SeminoleFSU
Voluntaryist
SeminoleFSU
Voluntaryist
You think it's bad now? Just wait until the M3 drops and there's only ONE screen to put all this stuff on... LMAO
HankLloydRight
No Roads
It's simple logic: Map and Camera are "always on top". Media Player, Browser, and Energy graphs are "always on bottom". Unless you specifically move them to the other location using your finger or the rotation button.
It's not that limited (contrary to the popular myths). If the MCU was truly limited, they wouldn't do stupid graphic stuff like "auto-hide."
There won't ever be locally installed "apps" not because of CPU power, but because of significant security risks. Even with whatever updated browser we are being promised will have security holes people will find. The current browser isn't a native app, it itself runs inside a container, and it's crippled, so it's pretty safe from exploits (we haven't seen any yet). But with a native app even like Chrome or Chromium, there is a much higher risk of exploit. So I doubt Tesla will ever allow an app store and apps to run on the cars that they haven't written (or thoroughly vetted) themselves, like the paint app.
Why is it that we haven't seen any major improvements in the media player or navigation apps over the past 5 years?
Why didn't we get the promised app store and 3rd party API (they disappeared long before people were worried about cybersecurity)?
Why haven't we seen the upgraded kernel and browser that were promised several years ago?
Why haven't we seen the user interface customization and the improvements to the media player interface - that were also promised last year?
The answer could be the same as to why it's taken a lot longer to get AP2 to AP1 level of functionality...
It's harder than Tesla thought it would be...
A major risk in building software using an incremental process - on consistently aggressive timelines - is that design trade-offs are made - exchanging faster speed to market vs. making the investment in the overall software architecture that makes it easier to implement future improvements. And it really seems like Tesla may have fallen into the trap of the former - over the last 5+ years, pushing the development team hard to get software out on aggressive schedules, and not providing the additional team to design a more evolvable and maintainable architecture.
In addition to new functionality, Tesla has had to deal with multiple system configurations, introduction of the Model X, right/left hand steering, and multiple language customizations. And if the software wasn't designed to make this easy, the cost for implementing even simple changes can quickly skyrocket.
And the Model 3 could even make this situation worse. The S/X have a common dashboard and common center console - so at least the user interface is mostly the same, with some relatively small variations based on the different hardware configurations.
That won't be true for the Model 3 - no dashboard (dashboard information will now be displayed on the remaining center console display). And the center console display is smaller (likely meaning less information can be displayed) plus it is rotated into "landscape" mode, which breaks Telsa's simple but elegant user interface style used on the Model S/X (splitting the display into top and bottom halves, with an auto-hide menu/status bar on the top and a constant set of controls on the bottom).
If Tesla's user interface software had been designed for future evolution (which is how most modern software is developed, especially for devices running mobile operating systems - with multiple different screen/interface configurations), then Tesla should be able to adapt the current apps to the new screen configuration - and then get back to adding new functionality.
Or, what is more likely, the developers are trying to retrofit the new screen configuration into the existing code, which can get pretty ugly and is time consuming, plus it creates an even larger burden for future maintenance and the addition of new functionality.
It wouldn't be surprising to see Tesla take a pause from making many software changes as Model 3 production ramps up. AP software should be pretty close to identical, assuming the 3 has the same AP2 hardware suite - so AP/EAP/FSD should continue to move ahead, without having it dragged down by the Model 3 release.
But for changes to the Model S/X user interface, improvements to the onboard apps, user interface customization, ... - it might take even longer before we start seeing Tesla make progress on the growing backlog of new functionality and bug fixes.
Again, since we don't have any insight into Tesla's software development methodology or strategy, these are only educated guesses - and I hope I'm wrong...
Why didn't we get the promised app store and 3rd party API (they disappeared long before people were worried about cybersecurity)?
Why haven't we seen the upgraded kernel and browser that were promised several years ago?
Why haven't we seen the user interface customization and the improvements to the media player interface - that were also promised last year?
The answer could be the same as to why it's taken a lot longer to get AP2 to AP1 level of functionality...
It's harder than Tesla thought it would be...
A major risk in building software using an incremental process - on consistently aggressive timelines - is that design trade-offs are made - exchanging faster speed to market vs. making the investment in the overall software architecture that makes it easier to implement future improvements. And it really seems like Tesla may have fallen into the trap of the former - over the last 5+ years, pushing the development team hard to get software out on aggressive schedules, and not providing the additional team to design a more evolvable and maintainable architecture.
In addition to new functionality, Tesla has had to deal with multiple system configurations, introduction of the Model X, right/left hand steering, and multiple language customizations. And if the software wasn't designed to make this easy, the cost for implementing even simple changes can quickly skyrocket.
And the Model 3 could even make this situation worse. The S/X have a common dashboard and common center console - so at least the user interface is mostly the same, with some relatively small variations based on the different hardware configurations.
That won't be true for the Model 3 - no dashboard (dashboard information will now be displayed on the remaining center console display). And the center console display is smaller (likely meaning less information can be displayed) plus it is rotated into "landscape" mode, which breaks Telsa's simple but elegant user interface style used on the Model S/X (splitting the display into top and bottom halves, with an auto-hide menu/status bar on the top and a constant set of controls on the bottom).
If Tesla's user interface software had been designed for future evolution (which is how most modern software is developed, especially for devices running mobile operating systems - with multiple different screen/interface configurations), then Tesla should be able to adapt the current apps to the new screen configuration - and then get back to adding new functionality.
Or, what is more likely, the developers are trying to retrofit the new screen configuration into the existing code, which can get pretty ugly and is time consuming, plus it creates an even larger burden for future maintenance and the addition of new functionality.
It wouldn't be surprising to see Tesla take a pause from making many software changes as Model 3 production ramps up. AP software should be pretty close to identical, assuming the 3 has the same AP2 hardware suite - so AP/EAP/FSD should continue to move ahead, without having it dragged down by the Model 3 release.
But for changes to the Model S/X user interface, improvements to the onboard apps, user interface customization, ... - it might take even longer before we start seeing Tesla make progress on the growing backlog of new functionality and bug fixes.
Again, since we don't have any insight into Tesla's software development methodology or strategy, these are only educated guesses - and I hope I'm wrong...
Let's not jump to conclusions... If horizontal is the future, it's really just a UI change. We all are hoping the MCU for the 3 is much beefier then what is in the S/X. There might be possibility that the UI code is completely rewritten to run on the new hardware, learning from the codebase of the past. Perhaps a future S/X update (and perhaps the Y and new roadster) will also transition to a horizontal screen, unifying things on a more modern codebase that begins with the 3.
Not to say the S/X will lose it's dash screen (HUD?) but it could be a opportunity for them to push onto new tech, leaving behind old bloated code.
/edit. Maybe through some miracle the new MCU will be easily upgradeable!
vdiv
Chief Grump
Larger frunk too, so that's at least threeI like ye ole' dash.
Granted, its a personal choice. Some like it, some don't. To me, it's the ONE GOOD THING that the classic cars have that the AP1 and AP2 cars don't have. Oh, and a couple cancelled colors (brown and green). So two good things. Or would that be counted as three?
thecloud
As rhythm raced inside, the ship came alive
The original large frunk was not exclusive to pre-AP cars. There was a short window of time in 2014 when you could have both.Larger frunk too, so that's at least three
If software is not designed well, at some point the maintenance becomes so difficult that it really is easier to completely rewrite it than to continue trying to cram more changes into poorly designed code.
Would not be surprised to see this with Tesla's onboard software - especially the software driving the dashboard and console displays - and the core apps (media player, navigation).
When we received our early VIN (3xxx) S P85, it was understandable that the software was relatively basic, and missing obvious features (like playlists or waypoints). Tesla had limited resources, and the software team had to focus on doing a few major features at a time. In the first year, much of the development work was related to implementing and then fixing sleep mode.
And then there was the shift to implementing AP1 - and it was again understandable that AP was a major undertaking, and Tesla didn't have enough software people on board to do AP quickly - and make any other major changes.
But 5 years have passed. Tesla is shifting into high volume production with the Model 3. The company's valuation rivals the major US manufacturers - and we still haven't seen major improvements in the software Tesla delivered 5 years ago.
At some point, Tesla can't be viewed as a lean startup - and will be expected to provide functionality and quality comparable to other manufacturers... And for those of us who are long-time Tesla supporters, let's hope they don't wait too much longer to start catching up...
