Optimum No Rise and Wax - Trying to avoid swirl marks

[dragonxt]

Just Trust me I did way too much research on this subject and spent way too much money If anyone has more knowledge, please let me know where I can improve. I know everyone does things differently, but this is my personal favorite way to get things done. IMO it gives you the best results for the lowest price.

1) If your car is really dirty, I strongly suggest a foam cannon using Adams Mega Foam or Carpro Reset. Spray your car with a thick layer of foam and let it drip for 5 mins. (Do this in the shade if possible). For the next part, you MUST switch to a shaded garage. If you have water spots DO NOT USE WATER SPOT REMOVER ON TESLA GLASS. It will permanently damage it...

2) Mix ONR with water. 2oz for 2 and 1/2 gallons is enough. Adding more does not help. Use a plush Microfiber towel (Eagle Edgeless from rag company is good, though any plush towel would work). Use the 2 bucket method or Gerry Dean method anything is fine. Wipe panel in straight lines only starting from the top of the car. Do 1 panel at a time. Use Bug Off for bugs. ONR won't melt them away.

3) (This step is very important for the first time to avoid swirls when using gloss enhancing products. Repeat this step every few months if you feel the paint has gotten rough) CLAY BAR THE CAR. Use ONR has a lubricant, NOT the mothers' instant detailer that everyone has or ONR wash and wax. It's not going to damage anything, but it will reduce the ability for the next few products to work magic. You need regular blue ONR.

3) After doing a panel with ONR and clay bar, use Optimum Instant Detailer and Gloss Enhancer as a drying aid. Use a large Waffle Weave towel to dry. I use Meguire's Water Magnet.

4) Apply CarGuys Hybrid Wax over the paint. You can skip this step if you have a ceramic coating.

5) Apply P and S Beadmaker over the paint last. This only looks good for about a month (maybe longer). You can top it up with more Beadmaker or Use Carpro Reload instead which lasts a lot longer. Though the gloss from Beadmaker is SLIGHTLY better. Beadmaker is also what Tesla seems to be using in their showrooms in the Bay Area. It's a great gloss enhancer. Though it is not durable like reload, which is silica-infused.

Don't use microfibers on glass, you're going to see tiny hairs that resemble scratches during the day. Use a clay towel or waffle weave.

 

[dragonxt]

I've been using Costco Microfiber towels for many years with good success. I toss them after use and do not wash/rinse and reuse to prevent scratches.

The Costco towels are great to have around. I've been rewashing them with success. I use and throw if they get too soiled though. The towels don't trap in a lot of dirt, so they're really only good for when your car has a little dust and bug crap on it.

These towels are absolutely disastrous on glass though. Do not use it! It leaves a lot of small hairs, which can also get stuck in your windshield if it's rough.

 

[Fernand]

We have morning fog in the Bay Area, and only after it lifts,
around noon, do we get the full blast sun. There were some
sections of my M3 where I hadn't had time to do a full bore
waxing. So today I got up early, so early that my wife really
thought I'd lost my mind, no breakfast, straight to Sunday
car worship.

First a round of ONR-wax and drying to get the road dirt
off. Then the problem gets circular, never being quite sure
if I've done wax removal or buffing on this particular panel
or glass, and the trees keep pissing on the finish, so I
end up re-doing sections like an idiot. But by the time
the sun was hitting hard, and wax was starting to soften,
I'd gotten it all done. Whew. Say what you will, wax & buff
is always a sweaty affair. But once it's done, maintenance
washes with ONR-Wax are easy and it's well worth it.

Any swirls and micro water spots that are (only) visible in
bright light can never get better than the initial clay-bar job
left them. No point in hoping for miracles - save that for
next year's claying or paint correction.

A lot of people use more ONR than recommended,
on the "more is better" theory. But if you think about it,
they would only be too happy to sell you more, so it's
clearly wrong. It takes about a little teaspoon (4ml) in
a quart spray bottle for the 256:1 wash solution, and 4
little teaspoons (16ml) in a quart to make a 64:1 detailer
or clay lube spray.

It's also interesting to look at the dirty towels. Unless
you've been driving through the mother primeval, there's
really not that much dirt to lift, it's more like a film, and
then you realize what a crazy waste it is to do a traditional
hose washing, unless you're picking off mud.

 

[Fernand]

@dragonxt I'm sure what you describe gives
great results. How often do you do this?
How do you maintain the car e,g, weekly?

If you're claybarring the car with blue ONR
you're down to the clear coat and I'm pretty
sure any coating is gone, you're starting over
each time.

Doing claybar is beyond my energy/time level.
I have to pay someone to do that occasionally.
I'm just one notch up from "wash the car", my
garage is full of boxes and stuff, and the trees
dump crap on the car all the time. I think a lot
of people are like that. We want a shiny car but
can't dedicate weekends to get there.

We both discovered ONR but the specialized
products are above my grade. I just wanted a
surface I can use ONR on easily as a wash
method, and I found that a good waxing and
then using ONR-Wax works well. And I'm very
happy with a carnauba-type wax look.

I don't see any hairs from microfiber or even
terry cloth, they just blow off a good wax.

Where did you hear that the Tesla glass is
easily permanently damaged? How?

 

[dragonxt]

@dragonxt I'm sure what you describe gives
great results. How often do you do this?
How do you maintain the car e,g, weekly?

If you're claybarring the car with blue ONR
you're down to the clear coat and I'm pretty
sure any coating is gone, you're starting over
each time.

Doing claybar is beyond my energy/time level.
I have to pay someone to do that occasionally.
I'm just one notch up from "wash the car", my
garage is full of boxes and stuff, and the trees
dump crap on the car all the time. I think a lot
of people are like that. We want a shiny car but
can't dedicate weekends to get there.

We both discovered ONR but the specialized
products are above my grade. I just wanted a
surface I can use ONR on easily as a wash
method, and I found that a good waxing and
then using ONR-Wax works well. And I'm very
happy with a carnauba-type wax look.

I don't see any hairs from microfiber or even
terry cloth, they just blow off a good wax.

Where did you hear that the Tesla glass is
easily permanently damaged? How?

I don't do anything weekly. If my car gets a little dirty, a simple ONR wash with Instant detailer and Gloss Enhancer is the best I can do. Anything else would have me running in circles. Around every other wash, I top up my car with Beadmaker after ONR. Around the 6 month mark, I top up with Hybrid Wax and follow with beadmaker.

Most importantly: https://www.amazon.com/3D-Auto-Deta...r&qid=1563310412&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1
I wanted to test the validity of some of the reviews, which said that it permanently ruined their Model X windshield. I tested a small corner and can confirm. This product messed up the corner of the glass I used it on. With that in mind, I would stay far away from any "water spot removers".

If you want to remove water spots from the windshield, buy a swirl and scratch remover that also advertises itself as a water spot remover. Those don't have any harmful chemicals.

Secondly, the clay bar process really only needs to be done the first time. I do it every few months (and reapply wax) but most normal people would probably do it once a year. You are correct the clay bar strips everything. This always needs to be done before adding a wax/sealant (which is what Hyrbid Wax is). I FORGOT TO MENTION you should put CarGuys Liquid Wax under Hybrid Wax. Once that's cured, If you continually top up with beadmaker and Hybrid Wax once every couple washes this will last over a year easily.

Bottom line: If you want to skip out on specialized products and complicated wax processes I strongly suggest you buy Optimum Instant Detailer and CarPro Reload. When drying the car after a wash, do 1 spray of OID and wipe. Then every 3-6 months just do a coat of Reload and you'll get RIDICULOUS results with no effort. Reload is a little expensive, but the SiO2 formulation provides a ridiculous amount of gloss and slickness and goes a long way. Skip the wax and no need to bother your wife

 

[dragonxt]

Here's a picture of some guys ruined glass. Not sure if it could be polished out, but either way an expensive repair:

 

[joebruin77]

If you want to skip out on specialized products and complicated wax processes I strongly suggest you buy Optimum Instant Detailer and CarPro Reload.

I just ordered this product Technician's Choice Ceramic Detail Spray. As the video below suggests, it is a good (and much cheaper) alternative to Reload. I'm excited to try it and will post my own results. In the meantime, I thought others might find this video comparing TCCDS and Reload helpful:

 

[acarney]

What about using a pressure washer on its most gentle nozzle? Can ONR be mixed in a soap container of a pressure washer and done after the foam and soak step? Then using a leaf blower or something to dry the car? I don’t need super super $1000 detail job gloss, I just want to keep swirls away and have a clean car. I figure if I never physically touch it (except maybe to put a gloss enhancer on after the car is clean and dry) then I’ll avoid swirls....

 

[joebruin77]

What about using a pressure washer on its most gentle nozzle? Can ONR be mixed in a soap container of a pressure washer and done after the foam and soak step? Then using a leaf blower or something to dry the car? I don’t need super super $1000 detail job gloss, I just want to keep swirls away and have a clean car. I figure if I never physically touch it (except maybe to put a gloss enhancer on after the car is clean and dry) then I’ll avoid swirls....

There are differing opinions about this. Some people use a completely touchless system. But others claim that in order to remove all the dirt and contanminants, you have to touch the paint. And if you don't remove all the dirt and contanminants, that can scratch your paint over time.

 

[acarney]

There are differing opinions about this. Some people use a completely touchless system. But others claim that in order to remove all the dirt and contanminants, you have to touch the paint. And if you don't remove all the dirt and contanminants, that can scratch your paint over time.

But foam + power washer would be safe for removing bulk amounts of dust and dirt? (just an electric one, so I think it's like 1500 psi max, and obviously I wouldn't have the tip close to the paint)

Would using a proper lubricant and clay bar after that help remove suck on dirt/grim and then allow me to go over it with a clean soft microfiber without causing swirls? Or would the clay bar process scratch it if there was still any specs of dirt on the paint?

I live in a fairly dry area (East side of Washington state) so the car stays fairly clean, but loses it's "glow" or "gloss" from all the dust around here, especially if it's windy.

 

[joebruin77]

But foam + power washer would be safe for removing bulk amounts of dust and dirt? (just an electric one, so I think it's like 1500 psi max, and obviously I wouldn't have the tip close to the paint)

Would using a proper lubricant and clay bar after that help remove suck on dirt/grim and then allow me to go over it with a clean soft microfiber without causing swirls? Or would the clay bar process scratch it if there was still any specs of dirt on the paint?

I live in a fairly dry area (East side of Washington state) so the car stays fairly clean, but loses it's "glow" or "gloss" from all the dust around here, especially if it's windy.

I would not use clay bar on paint that has not been fully washed. The clay bar removes embedded contaminants. But if you still have non embedded contaminants on the paint, they will get into the clay bar and cause scratches as you rub the clay around, even with a lubricant.

If you are trying to remove light dust between washes, I would use a high quality waterless wash like Optimum Opticlean or McKees 37 Waterless Wash on the Go. The McKee’s 37 has lots of gloss enhancers.

 

[acarney]

I would not use clay bar on paint that has not been fully washed. The clay bar removes embedded contaminants. But if you still have non embedded contaminants on the paint, they will get into the clay bar and cause scratches as you rub the clay around, even with a lubricant.

If you are trying to remove light dust between washes, I would use a high quality waterless wash like Optimum Opticlean or McKees 37 Waterless Wash on the Go. The McKee’s 37 has lots of gloss enhancers.

But both of those "waterless" washes require physical contact with the paint, right? It's not a spray on and then air dry or blow off with air, right?

 

[joebruin77]

But both of those "waterless" washes require physical contact with the paint, right? It's not a spray on and then air dry or blow off with air, right?

Correct. If you use a clean, high quality MF with the proper technique, there should be no scratches

 

[dragonxt]

But both of those "waterless" washes require physical contact with the paint, right? It's not a spray on and then air dry or blow off with air, right?

If your main concern is swirls, your best bet is to pressure wash and then hit with a foam and let it drip. Then take ONR and a washcloth and gently move in straight lines. Even spray ONR and use a soaked cloth. If using a towel to dry, use a drying aid like OID. It adds gloss and improves lubrication. If not blow it off with air.

When you follow the proper steps, the only risk of swirling comes during the drying stage. Though that can be eliminated with a blow dryer.

 

[joebruin77]

Here is a helpful video on how to do a touchless wash. Interestingly, he points out that you can only use a touchless wash on a car that is lightly to moderately dirty and one that is already washed regularly. At the end, he also says that the car is 90 to 95% clean. This might be ok for a daily driver, but it would not be ok if you were planning on applying a wax or sealant.

 

[Fernand]

Wow, thanks guys for all the ideas!

Hey @acarney there are those California Dusters that
people rave about. We get a lot of pollen and dust here
so I lightly dust the car off with something like that. That
brings the car up from a dust pile to great in a couple of
minutes. Dust comes off a waxed surface easily, no point
in turning it to mud.

 

[Fernand]

So, @dragonxt, you say you do nothing weekly,
but you mention washing. How often?

I'm impressed with the way a lot of cars look
these days. I think it's partly because after we've
sold a kidney and a granddaughter to afford it,
we want it to reflect that, or at least to shine.
With the way that many cars are increasingly all
plastic, it's easy to make say Lucite(TM) shine.

But, honestly, all that coating and plastic has a
sort of petrochemical look to it, and there's nothing
like a finger-lickin' thick mellifluous flowing coating
of wax. I've used a lot wax on musical instruments,
from shellac to poly-yadda finishes, and carnauba
is marvelous. Surprisingly Turtle Wax Ice isn't bad
on cars, and many others, but that 3M Show Car
paste wax licks the llama's ass. I swear, it makes a
black car, micro swirl marks and all, just luscious.
It's a bit like vinyl records vs clean digital sound.
.

 

[Fernand]

My dear wife did a horrible thing. She hosed
water, WATER - you know, like "out da toilet" -
on Nicki the Tesla, in the sun. Hello, water spots.
What surprised me was how well the ONR+Wax
on top of a good waxing holds up. Since she'd
done the deed, I got her to help fix it. So a pass
w/ a little spray of 64:1 ONR+Wax that merged with
residual water, wiped it off, towel dried it, and wow,
bingo, back to black tie form. So pre-rinsing with
plain hose water doesn't ruin this thing.

My objective was/is to keep the car with a rich wax
look, but NOT spend time/money on it. So to review:
Clay it initially, wax it with a good paste wax, and
then just keep it up by dusting/blowing (and judging
by today's scary experiment) maybe even rinsing off
any loose dirt, then do a rinseless wash by 1) pre-
spraying on a ONR+Wax solution, 2) wiping with
clean microfiber towels wetted with the ONR mix,
and 3) drying. A half hour job if you're healthy, say
once a week to prevent grunge buildup, and so far
the car's always looking freshly paste-waxed.

The trick is that ONR itself is capable of pulling dirt
off the finish without using detergents, and so without
degrading the core waxing. It doesn't need rinsing,
and ONR+Wax even leaves a little Carnauba to
support the mother wax.

You'd think I own Optimum Inc the way I see ONR
as really the breakthrough for us shiny car lovers who
refuse to spend long hours on it.

I need to get one of those simple pump up sprayers,
my finger gets sore spraying out of that dollar store
spray bottle, though it works.

 

[ry-ballz]

Don't even need that first coat of wax. The stuff in the green onr is fine on its own. Opti seal is a fantastic sealant to put over onr as well if you're looking for something else to try.

Personally I onr, Opti seal, and then go back with their spray wax or their gloss enhancer on top.
Paint looks slick or wet all the time.

 

[Bill Foster]

My dear wife did a horrible thing. She hosed
water, WATER - you know, like "out da toilet" -
on Nicki the Tesla, in the sun. Hello, water spots.
What surprised me was how well the ONR+Wax
on top of a good waxing holds up. Since she'd
done the deed, I got her to help fix it. So a pass
w/ a little spray of 64:1 ONR+Wax that merged with
residual water, wiped it off, towel dried it, and wow,
bingo, back to black tie form. So pre-rinsing with
plain hose water doesn't ruin this thing.

My objective was/is to keep the car with a rich wax
look, but NOT spend time/money on it. So to review:
Clay it initially, wax it with a good paste wax, and
then just keep it up by dusting/blowing (and judging
by today's scary experiment) maybe even rinsing off
any loose dirt, then do a rinseless wash by 1) pre-
spraying on a ONR+Wax solution, 2) wiping with
clean microfiber towels wetted with the ONR mix,
and 3) drying. A half hour job if you're healthy, say
once a week to prevent grunge buildup, and so far
the car's always looking freshly paste-waxed.

The trick is that ONR itself is capable of pulling dirt
off the finish without using detergents, and so without
degrading the core waxing. It doesn't need rinsing,
and ONR+Wax even leaves a little Carnauba to
support the mother wax.

You'd think I own Optimum Inc the way I see ONR
as really the breakthrough for us shiny car lovers who
refuse to spend long hours on it.

I need to get one of those simple pump up sprayers,
my finger gets sore spraying out of that dollar store
spray bottle, though it works.

Yea I feel the same way, like people think I get paid to talk about it. No.... it’s just that good.

I have a few of those pump up sprayers. Work great.

also, if you get water spots you can’t remove, optimum MDR works great. The small bottle will last forever