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Out of Warranty Drive Unit Replacement and Cost
- Thread starter Pres_Res
- Start date
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
All RWD cars = large rear drive unit
AWD non-performance cars = small front drive unit, small rear drive unit
AWD performance cars = small front drive unit, large rear drive unit
This is true for all Model S/X pre-dating the recent 2021 refresh.
ajbessinger
Owner of QC Charge #2 (Portland OR)
All RWD Model S (Performance and Non-Performance) have the LDU, as well as all Dual Motor Performance models through the end of 2020.
xAgyex
Member
I have the same "uneven acceleration" and when I take it in they say they cant reproduce the issue. Other times they say it is the tires. Now they say it is the drive shafts, but they don't think I should replace the shafts now, as it isn't so bad. What should I do? Just live with the "uneven acceleration" / "feels like rolling on rocks" when on hard acceleration?
2014 MS85 with 109,000+ miles, 8 year warranty expires early 2022. Drive unit was replaced in late 2018 at 60,304 miles.
2014 MS85 with 109,000+ miles, 8 year warranty expires early 2022. Drive unit was replaced in late 2018 at 60,304 miles.
2012 Tesla Model S P85. Bought as CPO in Dec 2015 with only 3500 miles and now has 55k miles after 5 years and 11 months of ownership.
Two weeks ago I came back from work on a Friday evening, parked the car. Went back to drive on Sunday evening, noticed an OTA update an hour before, and a release notes message about 3G modem being unsupported in Feb 2022 and an offer to replace it with LTE for $200. I clicked OK and then suddenly several alerts popped up on the screen behind the wheel saying pretty much everything is 'disabled' or 'restricted'. I couldn't put the car in Drive or reverse mode and couldn't move it. I did a power cycle, I did a complete shut off, waited for 2 hours and tried to restart. All electronics were on, but the warning messages continue to appear and I couldn't move the car.
I called Tesla roadside support. They asked me to try power cycle, restart which I did once again, in vain. It was late evening Sunday and they said I had to wait for the 'advanced tech team' to check it out on Monday morning. Monday morning they tried another OTA update which failed. By afternoon they said I had to tow the car and it was out of 4 years/50k warranty (which expired in Dec 2020). I called AAA and got them tow to SC. They gave an initial estimate of 4 days to fix. On Thu evening I contacted them and they said they needed another 1 week to diagnose and they are severely backlogged.
Week 2: Monday they called and asked for 3 hours diagnosis authorization ($600+). End of week 2, they said they would need more time.
Week 3: Monday I received an estimate for $2300 that included replacement of 12v battery, 9 hours of labor plus few other parts and some work on the RDU. I was upset. The car was just running fine with no alerts/warnings/noise/problems, etc. Since there was no option, I approved that estimate and asked them to go ahead.
Tuesday I received a message that the service is complete and invoice was for $9000 that included a replacement of RDU for $6k plus everything else. I was shocked. They said the warranty on battery pack and RDU expired in January 2021. I was under the impression that I still have 3 more years or 150k miles for the battery/RDU since I bought it as CPO in December 2015. They said the car was originally sold in Jan 2013 who had only put 3500 miles until it was sold to me in December 2015. I understand the warranty starts from the date of original sale to the first owner. But I was NOT told about the month/year of the first sale. How am I supposed to know which month/year that warranty expires if Tesla didn't tell me at the time of selling the car? I went back and reviewed the final sale documents emailed to me in December 2015. I found NO reference that the Battery/RDU warranty would expire in Jan 2021 (5 years from my purchase date). I would NOT have bought the car, had I known I had only 5 years warranty left on the RDU/battery pack.
SC staff said they can't do anything about it as they can only verify if the warranty is still active or not. I asked them direct me to someone who is in charge of CPO sales / warranty disclosures and they said they don't know and nobody would come on a phone to talk to me about it.
I have to pay $9k to get the car out and I'm not sitting on a pile of cash, so scrambling to figure out how to get this done. If I had known that those two big warranty expires in Jan 2021, I would've sold it last year.
The car was running like a charm with just 55k miles on it and I can't believe I'm slapped with this bill. I understand anything could fail. But it's difficult to understand or accept how an RDU could just fail abruptly without warning when the car had no prior symptoms, issues at 55k miles and 5 years and 11 months of ownership. I take care of my car very well, never abused it, never raced, never pushed to its limit.
I'm terribly disappointed.
Sorry for my lengthy post. I feel that Tesla is not being transparent and not standing by the quality of what they make.
Two weeks ago I came back from work on a Friday evening, parked the car. Went back to drive on Sunday evening, noticed an OTA update an hour before, and a release notes message about 3G modem being unsupported in Feb 2022 and an offer to replace it with LTE for $200. I clicked OK and then suddenly several alerts popped up on the screen behind the wheel saying pretty much everything is 'disabled' or 'restricted'. I couldn't put the car in Drive or reverse mode and couldn't move it. I did a power cycle, I did a complete shut off, waited for 2 hours and tried to restart. All electronics were on, but the warning messages continue to appear and I couldn't move the car.
I called Tesla roadside support. They asked me to try power cycle, restart which I did once again, in vain. It was late evening Sunday and they said I had to wait for the 'advanced tech team' to check it out on Monday morning. Monday morning they tried another OTA update which failed. By afternoon they said I had to tow the car and it was out of 4 years/50k warranty (which expired in Dec 2020). I called AAA and got them tow to SC. They gave an initial estimate of 4 days to fix. On Thu evening I contacted them and they said they needed another 1 week to diagnose and they are severely backlogged.
Week 2: Monday they called and asked for 3 hours diagnosis authorization ($600+). End of week 2, they said they would need more time.
Week 3: Monday I received an estimate for $2300 that included replacement of 12v battery, 9 hours of labor plus few other parts and some work on the RDU. I was upset. The car was just running fine with no alerts/warnings/noise/problems, etc. Since there was no option, I approved that estimate and asked them to go ahead.
Tuesday I received a message that the service is complete and invoice was for $9000 that included a replacement of RDU for $6k plus everything else. I was shocked. They said the warranty on battery pack and RDU expired in January 2021. I was under the impression that I still have 3 more years or 150k miles for the battery/RDU since I bought it as CPO in December 2015. They said the car was originally sold in Jan 2013 who had only put 3500 miles until it was sold to me in December 2015. I understand the warranty starts from the date of original sale to the first owner. But I was NOT told about the month/year of the first sale. How am I supposed to know which month/year that warranty expires if Tesla didn't tell me at the time of selling the car? I went back and reviewed the final sale documents emailed to me in December 2015. I found NO reference that the Battery/RDU warranty would expire in Jan 2021 (5 years from my purchase date). I would NOT have bought the car, had I known I had only 5 years warranty left on the RDU/battery pack.
SC staff said they can't do anything about it as they can only verify if the warranty is still active or not. I asked them direct me to someone who is in charge of CPO sales / warranty disclosures and they said they don't know and nobody would come on a phone to talk to me about it.
I have to pay $9k to get the car out and I'm not sitting on a pile of cash, so scrambling to figure out how to get this done. If I had known that those two big warranty expires in Jan 2021, I would've sold it last year.
The car was running like a charm with just 55k miles on it and I can't believe I'm slapped with this bill. I understand anything could fail. But it's difficult to understand or accept how an RDU could just fail abruptly without warning when the car had no prior symptoms, issues at 55k miles and 5 years and 11 months of ownership. I take care of my car very well, never abused it, never raced, never pushed to its limit.
I'm terribly disappointed.
Sorry for my lengthy post. I feel that Tesla is not being transparent and not standing by the quality of what they make.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
1) Auto repair facilities in California have to get your authorization before completing repairs. They can't have you approve an estimate of $2,300 and then do $9,000 of work. If you didn't explicitly authorize this, I'd use that as leverage to make them come to a deal with you, starting with "I didn't authorize this work, return my car to the state that includes only the authorized work" - realizing they won't want to do that, and will likely start to negotiate. Start reading up on the CA BAR website. Here's a good PDF on estimates and authorization written with the shop as the intended audience, but provides a good overview nevertheless - https://www.bar.ca.gov/pdf/writeitright.pdf
2) I sympathize with you feeling duped RE the battery and drive unit warranty, but being honest this is 100% on you. You should have had no reasonable expectation that the battery and drive unit warranty reset to zero when you bought the car. The warranty terms of the CPO program are crystal clear and you shouldn't have expected something that isn't in writing.
Good luck.
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Thank you. Appreciate the feedback. Just to clarify, I wasn't expecting the 'reset to zero' warranty on RDU & battery knowing I was buying a CPO. I was only pointing to the issue of not being informed about the month and year of first sale by Tesla to the first owner which would have helped me to track the expiry date of the warranty. Tesla didn't disclose or provide any information at the time of purchase that this car was sold in January 2013 originally. This is one of the initial batches of Model S that were rolled out in 2013, it could be January or December 2013. Unless Tesla discloses this to me as a buyer when I bought it in December 2015, how am I expected to know the expiry month/year of the warranty. I trust this clarifies. I learned a very expensive lesson. In fact I asked the SC this afternoon about the warranty for the new RDU that they have put in and they said it comes with 4 years 50k miles warranty. I will get it in writing with the service report/bill when I get my car back. Thank you.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I see what you’re saying, makes sense. Like I said, good luck. If you didn’t explicitly authorize $9k of work I think you’ve got a case to pursue here and should keep at it. Let us know how it goes.
Thank you. I only authorized the $2300 estimate on Monday when a technician spoke to me and explained the estimate. On Tuesday the App showed that the service is complete with an invoice for $9k. I sent a barrage of messages questioning it, even the service center person who used to call messaged saying where I am seeing a $9k. Then the car became 'in service' and they removed the $2300 estimate; and sent a 'corrected estimate' of $9k for my authorization this afternoon which I did not sign/accept. It seems the technicians went ahead and replaced the RDU assuming it was covered under warranty and then figured it was a mistake, sent the invoice for $9k. When they realized they didn't get my authorization for $9k, they changed the status of the car from service complete to 'in service' this afternoon and is asking for my authorization. Another person was on the phone this evening repeatedly telling me that SC can't do anything if the car is out of warranty and if I want, they can put the old RDU back in the car, but it won't be drivable. I kept asking to put me through someone else who is responsible for warranty disclosures and he kept repeating that he can't get anyone to speak with me and they are 'only service' and not sales. He kept saying that I should have checked the warranty of RDU/battery at the time of purchasing knowing I was buying a CPO (and sales person can get away saying anything to sell a car). I told him none of the delivery documents specify the commencement date of warranty and he didn't have an answer. I asked him what he would do if he was in my situation. He said he would request SC to do 'something to get some discounts' and he would speak to his manager and see if he can get some discounts (around $800 to $1000) to bring it down to $8k. I told him that I would try to speak to someone in Sales tomorrow and get back.
ajbessinger
Owner of QC Charge #2 (Portland OR)
If you end up opting to have them put the old DU back in, you could take the car to a 3rd party shop (like where I work) to have a drive unit replacement/rebuild. It sounds to me like your drive unit most likely had the rotor coolant seal fail, and flood the motor/inverter with coolant (this is a very common issue on LDU equipped cars). To give you some perspective, at our shop, we charge ~$4000 to do a full drive unit overhaul, assuming the inverter is still good. When we rebuild the motors, we use an upgraded coolant seal, and make some modifications to mitigate coolant damage if the new seal ever wears out in the future. It sounds like your inverter is probably damaged, so it might need to be replaced, which could get expensive...
Also, just FYI, the build month/year for the car is listed on the tag in the driver's door jamb. Usually the "sold new" date is within less than a month of the build date when it comes to Teslas. For example, the door tag on my 2015 Model S 70D (with almost 425k mi on the clock) says it was built in Aug of 2015, so it's safe to assume that the drivetrain warranty most likely expires in Aug or Sep 2023. If you don't know when your warranty expires, especially when you're coming up to within the last year, it's a very good idea to call in and find out. It's generally common knowledge that most "early" Model S's came with an 8 year, unlimited mileage powertrain warranty from the original sale date.
In terms of them proceeding forward with the work without your permission, that clearly shouldn't have happened... It looks like you are in California, so FYI, here in California, shops are not supposed to proceed with any work if the original estimate changes, they need to get customer approval first. Since they did go forward with the work, they are violating that California Bureau of Auto Repair consumer protection rules. Going forward, you have a few options:
A) Pay for the repair, and move on with your life
B) File a complaint with the California BAR and attempt to negotiate a lower repair cost with the help of a BAR representative
C) Sue (will likely cost more than the repair)
C) Have them put the old drive unit back in and either sell the car as-is, or take to a 3rd party repair shop
If you tell the service center that you are going to file a complaint, MAYBE they will be willing to negotiate a lower price to dissuade you from doing so, but knowing Tesla Service, I wouldn't hold my breath.
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11/15 Monday - received an estimate in the Tesla App as well as an email with DocuSign signature request for $2300. A SC person spoke to me and I gave an approval and also completed the DocuSign form.
11/16 Tuesday - App showed the status as 'service complete' and 'Pay' with an invoice of $9k. I was shocked and when I looked into the invoice it showed the $6k RDU cost which was not there in the 11/15 estimate. I sent a bunch of messages in the App demanding an explanation as to why they went ahead with the work for $9k which I wasn't told in the first place as I authorized only $2300. The response was 'the warranty expired in January 2021'.
11/17 Wednesday - After I made so much noise, the status magically changed to 'In Service' in the app, and the 11/15 estimate was 'corrected' with a new estimate of $9k. I received an email as well for DocuSign approval that afternoon. Please note, the work was already done on 11/16 and it was showing the invoice and 'pay' option, which was changed to 'in service' and 'approve estimate' after I raised concerns.
Another SC staff spoke to me in the evening and repeated the expired warranty story, but couldn't answer why I was not given in writing that it would expire in January 2021. Even with the 8 year warranty starting at the time of first sale, it could be December 2021 as well right? Unless the month/year of first sale was mentioned in my CPO document, there is no way for me to figure out whether the warranty expires in Jan or Dec of this year. We're not talking about beyond the 8 year into 9th or 10th year. 2013 - 2021 8 years. The issue is they sold to the first owner in Jan 2013 and claims the warranty expired in Jan 2021. I was not provided the "Jan" 2013 information at the time of sale.
I asked what went wrong with the RDU as the car had no issues whatsoever until the previous day when all warnings suddenly showed up. SC said its not their job to dismantle the RDU to find out what went wrong and don't have the option to rebuild or repair a faulty RDU, they could only tell us that the RDU needs replacement. He said he was able to adjust and discount a little bit and now the revised 'estimate' shows as $8200 waiting for my approval (work is already done on 11/16).
He said if I don't want to pay, they can put the old RDU back and ask me to tow the car from SC. I was so tempted to tell him to do that, but I didn't want to react to the situation. He said he would again speak to the manager and get a little more discount and get back to me today.
I can go to small court. I didn't download the $2300 estimate on Monday since I approved it online from the app. I wish I'd downloaded that. I also didn't take a screenshot of 'service complete' and 'pay $9k invoice'. Tesla has changed the status and changed the invoice to estimate now realizing they screwed it up. Since all these happened so quickly in the last 24 hours, I only have all the messages that I exchanged with them in the last 3 days. The car is fixed with a new RDU that I didn't authorize. If SC wants to cover up and if they know I'm going to take a legal route, they may even put the old RDU back and pretend they've send a revised estimate and waiting for my approval.
SC going ahead and replacing RDU without my authorization of the $9k spend is one issue.
Tesla not disclosing the original sale date at the time of selling the car to me is another issue. Both are related as the warranty on RDU plays a major role here.
What options do I have? Negotiate to get couple of more hundred dollars discount and pay? Or escalate to someone in Tesla (I can't find a way to do that) or go to small court and file a case? I'm without a car for the 3rd week and I don't know how long the small court option would take (I read that it could take up to 3 months).
dark cloud
Active Member
Sorry for the bad news, for sure this what we all fear outside of warranty.
This is the point I find interesting, as I thought they don't "work" on the drive units. Like battery packs they remove/replace them only, they do not repair them.
Then if $6000 is the price of the drive unit re/re, then what is the other $3000 for? (other than the $200 for the LTE, $200-300 for battery and $150 diagnostic)
If they put your old RDU back in and only charge you for the diagnosis/work that you authorized, what exactly would you take them to small claims court over?
They revised the 'estimates' to $8224 (RDU $6K, Battery plus side motor mount assembly, etc.. )Total Parts $6250 and Labor $1334. Plus Taxes $640
The work authorized was to fix the car ($2300) not to put the old RDU back. If they put the old RDU back, they can only charge for the $630 diagnosis for 3 hours that I approved last week. Small court option - they went ahead replacing the RDU and sent an invoice for $9k which is nearly 4 times of what I authorized on Monday. I know this is too sticky and am very uncomfortable with this situation. Point is: They gave an estimate for $2300 to fix the car on Monday. The fixed it and replaced the RDU (may be the technician thought RDU was within warranty), realized that it's out of warranty and sent an invoice for $9k. When I raised my concerns, they changed the status in the App to. 'In Service' and sent a 'corrected estimate' for $8224 (now) for my approval, as if they are still waiting to fix the car. The car is already fixed as of Tue this week.
dark cloud
Active Member
Best case scenario: you pay only $630 and take/tow the car to QC charge, and pay (only) $4000 for a rebuild. Not sure the timeline for you to get your car back. Total cost ~$5000? Plus using another vehicle for a while? Not sure if that has cost for you.
(wow, that is alot of labour they will have to eat)
Or get it today for $3224 more, 3 grand is 3 grand, but again no guarantee your cost to rebuild is just $4000; how much if the inverter is fried? and how is the backlog at QC @ajbessinger ? there is uncertainty here.
But paying Tesla means you get it now, and then it has a Tesla warranty going forward.
It sucks, but I think I am implying what I would do.
(wow, that is alot of labour they will have to eat)
Or get it today for $3224 more, 3 grand is 3 grand, but again no guarantee your cost to rebuild is just $4000; how much if the inverter is fried? and how is the backlog at QC @ajbessinger ? there is uncertainty here.
But paying Tesla means you get it now, and then it has a Tesla warranty going forward.
It sucks, but I think I am implying what I would do.
I'm leaning towards arranging for the money (refinancing my Tesla auto loan to get some equity) so I can pay and get the car out with a 4 year 50k warranty on the RDU. I don't have the time or energy to deal with towing it from SC to another 3rd party to get it rebuilt not knowing when it's going to fail again. But the ticking time bomb is the battery pack. I'm still getting 230 miles on a full charge, but like this RDU failed magically, battery pack could fail as well anytime, as Tesla doesn't stand by the quality of what they make apparently. Please note my car has only 56 k miles (of the 150k mile warranty). It had only 3500 miles when I bought it as CPO in December 2015. I'm going to sell this car as I'm not prepared to spend tens of thousands of dollars on the battery pack which can fail anytime even if the car is not driven and sits in the parking like the RDU failed (according to SC). Honestly I don't believe the entire RDU needed to be replaced as there was absolutely no sign of any problems, warnings, noises, etc. and the car was just running smooth like a butter. Tesla doesn't care to look into what went wrong in the RDU as it takes time/efforts/admittance to QC issues, they're going with the easy/but very expensive route of replacing it instead of repairing it.
I wonder if the newer cars will suffer the same costly repairs when they are 7 to 9 years old
