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Overreaction: Is Elon planning on selling us out?

Am I wrong?


  • Total voters
    27

robdavmil

Member
Jun 17, 2019
26
32
Harrisburg, PA
Maybe this is just an emotional overreaction, but after reading a recent Elektrek article (Tesla CEO Elon Musk talks self driving; $1,000 price increase coming Nov. 1 - Electrek, read half way down...Elon Twitter response to Luis Ramirez) that discussed how Elon plans to stop selling Teslas at commercially available prices, I feel like a bit of a pawn. Full disclosure: I’ve had an M3 for 4 months and absolutely love it. I’m excited for any chance to drive it. I’m embarrassed when I tell people how cool I think it is. However, now it feels like I really am just a beta tester, and once Elon can remove the ‘Beta’ from self driving he’s ready to drop us like a bad habit, jack up the price, and only sell to those who want to use it as a robotaxi (and afford it). I get it’s a business (and I do own Tesla stock) but it sounds like he’s planning ahead to betray those who helped him get there. Pretty sucky move if you ask me. Again, maybe an overreaction, but it just seems like he already knows he wants to cut off people like me, and probably the majority of Tesla owners.
 

outdoors

Always roaming
Supporting Member
Aug 10, 2014
1,687
2,959
in the moment
You are embarrassed to tell people you like something. You think Elon is out to get us all. Yet you love the car.

Think minor emotional overreaction. Keep driving. Bet you love it more than the people you talk to, or more than reading the headlines of about Tesla.

There is no betrayal here. Just a long term vision or mission statement.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,504
8,644
Visalia, CA
...betray...

1) Tesla keeps changing prices and policies very often.

However, in so doing, it grandfathers early adopters. If you paid for it, your deal is sealed and unchangeable.

So those who sealed the deal on unlimited Supercharging, they will continue to enjoy it while others who were too slow to get the deal would now have to pay up for each Supercharging session.

Thus, Tesla changes do not mean betrayal. The changes only encourage procrastinators that if you want certainty then pay up and get that assurance locked in.

Same with FSD. If you sealed the deal by paying for it, you are all set!

It's those who are procrastinators who need to pay extra for their habit.

2) By the way, for those who will not be able to pay very expensive FSD, that doesn't mean they can't buy a Tesla.

They can. They can buy one without FSD but Autopilot is now standard.

So, just because FSD will be so high and not accessible to an average driver, they can still accomplish Tesla's mission by buying a Tesla without paying for FSD.

3) In addition, once Robtaxi is a reality, it's questionable why I need my own car any more when I can summon a stranger's Robotaxi at 2AM in the dark morning and get to where I want to go. It will provide me more freedom than owning one.

It's not betrayal. It's the freedom promised in the future.
 

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,183
5,338
MA, NH
And it will go on sale for Existing owners without FSD a month later.

Probably end of year crunch. Again.

I’d pay $3k. He should offer Model 3 Extended Warranty Plans at discount too if he wants year to look better. He should do it soon too. Not sure he should offer Performance upgrade on AWD. He could cripple Performance sales. He’s already done the damage on FSD sales by the past sales. He convinced me not to buy FSD with car this time around, but I did a year ago and got burned.
 

DanCar

Active Member
Oct 2, 2013
2,030
2,126
SF Bay Area
Elon has been dreaming about full self driving since 2014. All of his predictions have been wrong. He can continue dreaming. Who knows when his bubble will burst. I think very soon, when he realizes people aren't willing to pay $7K for vaporware.
 

robdavmil

Member
Jun 17, 2019
26
32
Harrisburg, PA
Elon is not your friend and owes you no favors. Tesla is a company and will do whatever makes them the most profit.

/thread
Since we’re all Beta testers, maybe we should start a class action suit for pay and benefits

As someone who doesn’t do anything the traditional way, I was hoping for a little gentler stab in the back, not projecting it years in advance. I guess I just have to keep my current Model 3 running for the next decade until he finally gets FSD working.
 

Az_Rael

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Jan 26, 2016
5,653
8,941
Palmdale, CA
I get it’s a business (and I do own Tesla stock) but it sounds like he’s planning ahead to betray those who helped him get there.

Tesla has a long history of leaving behind early adopters in favor of making progress. Always buy the car for what it will do today, not what it might do in the future. Odds are they won’t solve FSD to the robotaxi level for years, though, so your car will be supported for a long time.
 

Battpower

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Oct 10, 2019
2,117
2,189
Uk
How is it a sell out when, if FSD works at some point in the future the cars are worth more and so sell for more? Did you imagine this was going to happen next year?
I wonder by what measure could anyone have any realistic expectation, especially of being able to use full FSD on city streets?
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,299
7,598
Canyon Lake,CA
In the future Elon envisions that individuals will not own cars for their exclusive personal transportation.

Currently cars are parked +90% of the time and that is wasteful.

Would be better for most commuters to use an Uber type service. No need for everyone to own a car.

No need for personal garages (can convert to additional living space), parking lots, parking structures and car parking along the sides of streets. Most all cars would be in constant use and on the streets. Hailing services would be computer operated and super efficient. Car use pricing would be determined by efficient supply and demand.

No more need to spend hours washing, waxing, paint correcting, ceramic coating, paint protection applying, annoying service visits, repair shop irritations...all the things that this forum is filled up with people complaining.

Everyone would simply be picked up and dropped off at their destination and the car would then scurry away to it's next hail.

Life would be much easier, more convenient and far less expensive. Few would want to really own their own car, if door to door service was available quickly and cheaply.

Every time you needed to take a trip, you could hail the size vehicle you needed. No need to own a huge SUV when most of your trips are only a couple people.

When you want to take a longer trip, you will take a hail to the nearest Hyperloop station. Use that station to whisk you off hundreds or thousands of miles at very high speeds, and pick up another hail to get you the last few miles to your destination.

Most of all, Elon will never need to hear constant complaining about panel gaps again :)
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,224
7,088
Delaware
Tesla's goal is sustainable pollution free transport. They'll do whatever seems necessary to make that happen. I don't think that Tesla will actually stop selling cars to the public any time soon.

Elon seems to believe the same "transportation as a service" theory that Uber and some others have been pursuing lately - the idea that if you always had access to a car when you needed it, you wouldn't care if you owned the car and drove the car.

For inner cities, it makes a lot of sense - it's hard to keep or charge a car there, and the streets are already plenty congested. An EV sold there to a TAAS system might well replace 5 or 10 ICE cars that are started, driven, and parked for most of the day. So it's more efficient than replacing those ICE cars one by one.

But I think a lot of people who don't live in inner cities (and some well off folks who do,) will resist that logic, wanting a car of their own both for the joy of having just what you want and the convenience of not waiting for the TAAS car to arrive.

I think Tesla will end up selling cars for those folks who don't want TAAS after they realize they've reached the limits of TAAS, or even while staffing up TAAS. It'll be interesting to see how Tesla prices a truly autonomous car, and how the rest of the industry pricing reacts to it.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,504
8,644
Visalia, CA
I wonder by what measure could anyone have any realistic expectation, especially of being able to use full FSD on city streets?

My reasonable expectation is it will have no driver in it and it can automatically get out of my Homelink garage, pick up rides, make money and recharge itself all on its own.

If it can't do that, then it's still in beta mode.
 

ralph142

Member
Mar 8, 2019
360
319
bellingham, wa
Tesla's goal is sustainable pollution free transport. They'll do whatever seems necessary to make that happen. I don't think that Tesla will actually stop selling cars to the public any time soon.

Elon seems to believe the same "transportation as a service" theory that Uber and some others have been pursuing lately - the idea that if you always had access to a car when you needed it, you wouldn't care if you owned the car and drove the car.

For inner cities, it makes a lot of sense - it's hard to keep or charge a car there, and the streets are already plenty congested. An EV sold there to a TAAS system might well replace 5 or 10 ICE cars that are started, driven, and parked for most of the day. So it's more efficient than replacing those ICE cars one by one.

But I think a lot of people who don't live in inner cities (and some well off folks who do,) will resist that logic, wanting a car of their own both for the joy of having just what you want and the convenience of not waiting for the TAAS car to arrive.

I think Tesla will end up selling cars for those folks who don't want TAAS after they realize they've reached the limits of TAAS, or even while staffing up TAAS. It'll be interesting to see how Tesla prices a truly autonomous car, and how the rest of the industry pricing reacts to it.

I think it makes sense for a lot of folks outside of inner cities, any suburb or small city. So we’re probably looking at we’ll over half the existing cars, if not more. But it’s surely not close.
 

ZoomsansVroom

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
May 3, 2019
186
77
29577
A) Musk is right, car ownership is a significant economic waste. (Not my antique ones, which are lovely, and not for sale for reasonable sums, though...)

B) Privacy will be an issue - so will transport for parents, etc. Right now, I don't have to worry about transporting client files, etc in a vehicle which gave little to no thought to securely locking compartments. If I go back to that kind of work, I'd have to get a different car/find someway to have a Job box or something secured to the car.
 
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