P100D, 760HP and Performance Tests

[sillydriver]

Currently, the way to increase capacity is to add silicon to the graphite anode, but that has the unfortunate side effect of increasing internal resistance and lowering power. So the only way to increase capacity would be to decrease power.

A qualification -- reading posts from while I was writing, this makes sense to me as a reason why there may be no P110D.

 

[Fiver]

A qualification -- reading posts from while I was writing, this makes sense to me as a reason why there may be no P110D.

At least when using the 18650 form factor cells and current style of pack construction. The 21700 format and future pack redesign open some doors.

But again, if 100 (in whatever form it comes in) covers 95% of the buying public, then I have no problem with refining the process to lower costs vs shooting for higher range or higher performance. John Q. Public doesn't need a 2 second 0-60 car.

 

[TIppy]

Try to make the 90 before the D announce and fail so ship the 85.
Make the 90 and move production to that.
Put 100s in some P90DLs and check field reliability all the while limiting capacity to 90 in software.
Release the P100DL at really stupid margins (still not bad value for performance) once proven on the street in P90DL trim.

This would explain why the cars were over hyped at the D launch and why some of the latest P90DLs are performing like the new P100DL. If the software limit prevents charging to 100%, the P90DL with 100 battery would be just slightly slower than the new P100DL. If they are shaving the 10 KW-Hr at the end of discharge, the later P90DLs will be as fast as the P100DLs. CAN bus data for cell voltage at end of charge will tell us; again, all of this assuming they field trial'd the 100 battery.

Good to see Tesla returning to under spec'ing their product leaving out 1/4 mile and such performance metrics. DragTimes is already filling in these data and youtube videos will soon follow. I really hope Tesla never returns to the D announce way of doing things.

I've already checked both ends of my battery's charge state with can bus data. It's a 90kwh battery.

 

[brianman]

Are you sure it was ~95%? I thought it was on the 100 but was still charging per the OP.

I said at least 95%. But yes, it looks more like 98+% to my naked eye.

Here's what I was referring to:

 

[lolachampcar]

Tippy,
I've not kept up.... Is your car one of the 10.8 sec V3s? If so, there goes that theory.

 

[brianman]

I ran 10.3 @ 137.5 MPH in the McLaren 650S all stock, just as it came from the factory, it's a VERY fast car....

Do you have a video from the side? I'd like to see the shifts from that angle.

 

[fiksegts]

P100D is clearly making more power than the TRC V3 car, maybe the extra weight is offsetting the performance?

Tippy,
I've not kept up.... Is your car one of the 10.8 sec V3s? If so, there goes that theory.

 

[brianman]

If you don't get a "P", the range on a regular 100D could be 340-350 miles. Not too shabby.

It could also be 315, or 800.

 

[brianman]

Try to make the 90 before the D announce and fail so ship the 85.
Make the 90 and move production to that.
Put 100s in some P90DLs and check field reliability all the while limiting capacity to 90 in software.
Release the P100DL at really stupid margins (still not bad value for performance) once proven on the street in P90DL trim.

Interesting narrative.


For the record...
@tesla, I'd be happy to sign an NDA to field test your 120 kW battery pack replacements for P85D+L vehicles and any cooling technologies for 20+ minute performance driving. Just sayin'.

 

[brianman]

A qualification -- reading posts from while I was writing, this makes sense to me as a reason why there may be no P110D.

Potentially. But it also leaves the door open for non-P flavors above 100.

Remember "free or fast"...
"Rate (of acceleration) or range" could be the next tagline.

 

[sillydriver]

John Q. Public doesn't need a 2 second 0-60 car.

[sputtering with indignation] I'm glad my name isn't John!

 

[TIppy]

Tippy,
I've not kept up.... Is your car one of the 10.8 sec V3s? If so, there goes that theory.

That's correct. It's a v3 p90dl. Same battery part no. as trc's car.

 

[ggnykk]

Rimac use oil to cool the rotor and stator. Tesla only use water cooling for stator and only oil in the differential.
Problem with water cooling is that coolant under normal pressure start to boil at around 125 degree Celsius. I think that is the reason Rimac use oil so it can cool the motors at much higher temperatures. But water it better at releasing heat than oil. So Rimac use both like normal ICE cars to.

"The motors (rotor and stator) are oil cooled with a closed-loop cooling system inside the housing. This architecture was necessary in order to get as much power as possible, while keeping the weight low. Still, no oil is circulating outside of the motor since the system features integrated heat-exchanger and pumps, which allow cooling the motor with a traditional water (glycol) cooling loop".


Powertrain
Front: Rimac Automobili D-PM-OC-500 – high speed dual permanent magnet oil cooled motors, 500 kW peak, 12.000 RPM, up to 97% efficiency.
2 single speed gearboxes
Rear: Rimac Automobili D-PM-OC-500 – high speed dual permanent magnet oil cooled motors, 600 kW peak, 12.000 RPM, up to 97% efficiency. Two double clutch two-speed gearboxes.
Rotor and stator oil cooling
Milled aluminium housings

thanks for the insights. I wish Tesla can do the same thing as Rimac in terms of motor stator cooling. We need a Tesla that doesn't ever show dotted lines or reduced power.

 

[sorka]

I meant 760, 567*1.341. They knew they were going to be able to produce 760 hp with the battery, that's why they up rated the unchanged motors.

Right, I was just pointing out that they did that in July of last year when the P90DL was introduced.

 

[ggnykk]

The power graph comparison shows that the extra power is only in a fairly narrow range. Think of total area under the curve for each and the area is not that much less on the V2/V3 P90DL.

So:



...567 Is just a tad higher than my high prediction of 554KW. Very impressive.

I think everyone here have to keep in mind that 10.80 second for P90DL v3 is an ALL TIME fastest record for any P90DL. The fact that P100DL only runs 10.78 second isn't an apple-to-apple comparison, because it is only the very first run. I don't think Dragtimes even tried to do multiple runs on P100DL yet. Wait for a week or two until more videos come out. I think P100DL all time record could be in 10.6x

 

[ggnykk]

Which they are according to my vbox. I own both stock 19s and stock 21s with stock rubber on each.

How much slower at 1/4 mile when you equip your car with 21 inch vs 19 inch?

 

[TIppy]

Right, I was just pointing out that they did that in July of last year when the P90DL was introduced.

Why do you think they did that in the middle of all the horsepower debate? You don't think they knew the specs of the p100d battery by then?

 

[ggnykk]

Damn, what does a 675 LT run then? It can't be much slower than a P1.

all your answer at 2:08 of this video. Kind in mind that Motor Trend 1/4 mile time is all weather corrected. It is a common practice among car testing community to eliminate the variation of performance due to weather/temperature/atmosphere conditions. So 10.5 second with 139.7 mph trap speed is after weather correction. On the drag strip, this same car can easily show 10.2 or 10.1 on the big board.

 

[ggnykk]

For weather-corrected number comparison, 1:13 of this video claim 650s run 1/4 miles at 10.7 sec at 134 mph (again, after weather correction). While you can also see Dragtimes video showing 650s posting 10.3 sec on drag strip.

 

[TIppy]

I think everyone here have to keep in mind that 10.80 second for P90DL v3 is an ALL TIME fastest record for any P90DL. The fact that P100DL only runs 10.78 second isn't an apple-to-apple comparison, because it is only the very first run. I don't think Dragtimes even tried to do multiple runs on P100DL yet. Wait for a week or two until more videos come out. I think P100DL all time record could be in 10.6x

He did several 10.8's back to back on that day. It wasn't some once in a lifetime fluke. And according to sorka, who's done tests on both sized wheels, they would have been 10.7's had he been on 19" wheels instead of 21's.