P3D+ w/ 5% increase: 1/8 Mile Numbers

[ModelNforNerd]

50? Many? I think that's overstating it, given they have transmissions that will need to waste time downshifting.... passing times up to at least 70 are crazy fast on Teslas.


For some perspective, here's the times from a run on an AWD (non P) Model 3

30-50 1.5 seconds

50-70 2.06 seconds

30-70 3.56 seconds


How does that compare to cars that definitely are less common than "many"?


2015 Nissan GT-R Test – Review – Car and Driver
That's the 2015 GT-R (545 hp, 463 torque)...0-60 is 3 flat. Quicker than even the Model 3 Performance.

30-50? 3.8 seconds. Slower than the AWD Model 3 goes 30-70.

50-70 in the GTR? 3.1 seconds...~50% slower than the Model 3 AWD.

Well damn... ok... how bout even quicker cars?

2020 Audi R8 Reviews | Audi R8 Price, Photos, and Specs | Car and Driver

Review of an Audi R8 with a number of other quick cars listed with 0-60 and 50-70 times. Remember the AWD Model 3 is 2.06 50-70.

Porsche 911 Turbo S. 0-60 in 2.7. The 50-70? 2.5.
McLaren 570S. 0-60 in 2.7. 50-70 in...2.7


(the R8 V10 FWIW is 3.2 0-60, and 2.4 50-70)

Ok. What else we got?

https://hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/f...rmance-data-and-complete-specs-1532365631.pdf

That's a $143,810 ZR-1 corvette vs a $348,730 Porsche 911 GT2 RS.

Vette 30-50? 1.9 seconds. 50-70? 2.3 Both slower than the AWD Model 3.

GT2 30-50? 2 flat. Still half a second slower than the M3 AWD.

Finally at 50-70 the Tesla, at 2.06, loses... to the 350k porsche which does it in...2.0

And the Model 3 P?

30-50 on a Model 3 P is 1.2, and 50-70 is 1.7


And BTW- all the Model 3 numbers are from mid-late last year- before the power bump they just pushed out... and since most of the power is allegedly around 45mph and higher, I expect things look even worse for "most" cars at passing speeds like 50-70.

Yea, I suspect that you're well into triple digits now if you want a car that can beat a P3D in an 1/8th mile.

At 1/4 mile, there are a few more that can make it interesting, but it's not a cheap proposition.

Lots of cars will cross the line going faster than a P3D, but the lead off the line will be too much to overcome in most cases.

 

[Drizzle]

speed definitely drops off after 60-70mph. i wish they could implement some sort of way to keep the higher end speed on par with lower end. what are the current limitations from them doing this?

Lol, it's called "gears".

 

[Drizzle]

50? Many? I think that's overstating it, given they have transmissions that will need to waste time downshifting.... passing times up to at least 70 are crazy fast on Teslas.


For some perspective, here's the times from a run on an AWD (non P) Model 3

30-50 1.5 seconds

50-70 2.06 seconds

30-70 3.56 seconds


How does that compare to cars that definitely are less common than "many"?


2015 Nissan GT-R Test – Review – Car and Driver
That's the 2015 GT-R (545 hp, 463 torque)...0-60 is 3 flat. Quicker than even the Model 3 Performance.

30-50? 3.8 seconds. Slower than the AWD Model 3 goes 30-70.

50-70 in the GTR? 3.1 seconds...~50% slower than the Model 3 AWD.

Well damn... ok... how bout even quicker cars?

2020 Audi R8 Reviews | Audi R8 Price, Photos, and Specs | Car and Driver

Review of an Audi R8 with a number of other quick cars listed with 0-60 and 50-70 times. Remember the AWD Model 3 is 2.06 50-70.

Porsche 911 Turbo S. 0-60 in 2.7. The 50-70? 2.5.
McLaren 570S. 0-60 in 2.7. 50-70 in...2.7


(the R8 V10 FWIW is 3.2 0-60, and 2.4 50-70)

Ok. What else we got?

https://hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/f...rmance-data-and-complete-specs-1532365631.pdf

That's a $143,810 ZR-1 corvette vs a $348,730 Porsche 911 GT2 RS.

Vette 30-50? 1.9 seconds. 50-70? 2.3 Both slower than the AWD Model 3.

GT2 30-50? 2 flat. Still half a second slower than the M3 AWD.

Finally at 50-70 the Tesla, at 2.06, loses... to the 350k porsche which does it in...2.0

And the Model 3 P?

30-50 on a Model 3 P is 1.2, and 50-70 is 1.7


And BTW- all the Model 3 numbers are from mid-late last year- before the power bump they just pushed out... and since most of the power is allegedly around 45mph and higher, I expect things look even worse for "most" cars at passing speeds like 50-70.

30-60 is definitely the sweet spot for performance model 3's. You get the torque you should feel at 0,a nd it's simply crazy quick as you've stated.

 

[StealthP3D]

Also, yellow lights are also green lights for most intent and purposes.

We have a lot of 50-55 mph 4 lane highways with traffic signals every 1-3 miles.

Previously, I always gassed it through yellow lights in my ICE cars. Now, with the P3D, I'll practically slam on my brakes for a yellow light if there's no one tailgating me.

I mean, getting through the tail end of a yellow light? Nice.
One more opportunity to amaze and stupify the surrounding motorists with a silent warp-drive launch from a green light? Priceless!

I love the way I'm already at 60 mph before the first of them has crossed the intersection. I'm sure they are saying, "What was that, a Tesla?" Then I set my Auto-Pilot for 8 mph over the speed limit and watch the ones who don't like being outdone risk a speeding ticket to try to catch up to the white lightning.

 

[StealthP3D]

50? Many? I think that's overstating it, given they have transmissions that will need to waste time downshifting.... passing times up to at least 70 are crazy fast on Teslas.


For some perspective, here's the times from a run on an AWD (non P) Model 3

30-50 1.5 seconds

50-70 2.06 seconds

30-70 3.56 seconds


How does that compare to cars that definitely are less common than "many"?


2015 Nissan GT-R Test – Review – Car and Driver
That's the 2015 GT-R (545 hp, 463 torque)...0-60 is 3 flat. Quicker than even the Model 3 Performance.

30-50? 3.8 seconds. Slower than the AWD Model 3 goes 30-70.

50-70 in the GTR? 3.1 seconds...~50% slower than the Model 3 AWD.

Well damn... ok... how bout even quicker cars?

2020 Audi R8 Reviews | Audi R8 Price, Photos, and Specs | Car and Driver

Review of an Audi R8 with a number of other quick cars listed with 0-60 and 50-70 times. Remember the AWD Model 3 is 2.06 50-70.

Porsche 911 Turbo S. 0-60 in 2.7. The 50-70? 2.5.
McLaren 570S. 0-60 in 2.7. 50-70 in...2.7


(the R8 V10 FWIW is 3.2 0-60, and 2.4 50-70)

Ok. What else we got?

https://hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/f...rmance-data-and-complete-specs-1532365631.pdf

That's a $143,810 ZR-1 corvette vs a $348,730 Porsche 911 GT2 RS.

Vette 30-50? 1.9 seconds. 50-70? 2.3 Both slower than the AWD Model 3.

GT2 30-50? 2 flat. Still half a second slower than the M3 AWD.

Finally at 50-70 the Tesla, at 2.06, loses... to the 350k porsche which does it in...2.0

And the Model 3 P?

30-50 on a Model 3 P is 1.2, and 50-70 is 1.7


And BTW- all the Model 3 numbers are from mid-late last year- before the power bump they just pushed out... and since most of the power is allegedly around 45mph and higher, I expect things look even worse for "most" cars at passing speeds like 50-70.

Thank you for bringing actual facts to the silly notion that Model 3's get whomped everywhere but 0-60 launch. Facts are good. And it makes me question the motives of anyone who would make such a silly pronouncement.

 

[StealthP3D]

Lol, it's called "gears".

Gears won't improve the Model 3's 60-100 mph at all because it's already at peak power the entire way. A lower gear could make all versions of the Model 3 traction limited to 30 mph (and improve acceleration from 0-45 mph) but a higher gear isn't going to anything to improve performance at speeds above that.

A simple software update could though. However, that might be hard on the batteries. Tesla could increase their warranty costs if the packs of the hardest driven Model 3's started declining too much before 8 years or 120,000 miles due to excessive power draw.

 

[EXOTIC1]

50? Many? I think that's overstating it, given they have transmissions that will need to waste time downshifting.... passing times up to at least 70 are crazy fast on Teslas.


For some perspective, here's the times from a run on an AWD (non P) Model 3

30-50 1.5 seconds

50-70 2.06 seconds

30-70 3.56 seconds


How does that compare to cars that definitely are less common than "many"?


2015 Nissan GT-R Test – Review – Car and Driver
That's the 2015 GT-R (545 hp, 463 torque)...0-60 is 3 flat. Quicker than even the Model 3 Performance.

30-50? 3.8 seconds. Slower than the AWD Model 3 goes 30-70.

50-70 in the GTR? 3.1 seconds...~50% slower than the Model 3 AWD.

Well damn... ok... how bout even quicker cars?

2020 Audi R8 Reviews | Audi R8 Price, Photos, and Specs | Car and Driver

Review of an Audi R8 with a number of other quick cars listed with 0-60 and 50-70 times. Remember the AWD Model 3 is 2.06 50-70.

Porsche 911 Turbo S. 0-60 in 2.7. The 50-70? 2.5.
McLaren 570S. 0-60 in 2.7. 50-70 in...2.7


(the R8 V10 FWIW is 3.2 0-60, and 2.4 50-70)

Ok. What else we got?

https://hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/f...rmance-data-and-complete-specs-1532365631.pdf

That's a $143,810 ZR-1 corvette vs a $348,730 Porsche 911 GT2 RS.

Vette 30-50? 1.9 seconds. 50-70? 2.3 Both slower than the AWD Model 3.

GT2 30-50? 2 flat. Still half a second slower than the M3 AWD.

Finally at 50-70 the Tesla, at 2.06, loses... to the 350k porsche which does it in...2.0

And the Model 3 P?

30-50 on a Model 3 P is 1.2, and 50-70 is 1.7


And BTW- all the Model 3 numbers are from mid-late last year- before the power bump they just pushed out... and since most of the power is allegedly around 45mph and higher, I expect things look even worse for "most" cars at passing speeds like 50-70.

I agree with eveything you posted
however i should have been clearer (when i stated over 50 mph)
say you're crusing down the interstate and clipping around 70 mph and a certain car(insert badge) rolls up beside you and wants to play
There are MANY cars that you shouldn't engage with (safety being #1) and also because you'll finish 2nd
I found this out first hand doing this experiment with my P85DL at the local airport runway strip during race days.
Side by side where they have already down shifted and roll race starts at highway speeds.
I was the quickest in 1/8th mile runs however i lost 3 times at highway run speeds

 

[StealthP3D]

I agree with eveything you posted
however i should have been clearer
say you're crusing down the interstate and clipping around 70 mph and a certain car rolls up beside you and wants to play
There are MANY cars that you shouldn't engage with (safety being #1) and also because you'll LOSE

That's called "moving the goal posts". Because this is what you actually said:

from stopl ight to stop light P tesla beats 99.9% of the cars on the road
however as has been brought up in numerous threads
there are many cars faster running the streets from speeds above 50.....

Now you are claiming "a certain car" rolls up beside you (at 70 mph)? Not "any" or "many" cars, but "a certain car". And not 50 mph, but 70 mph?

Please, make up your mind, I'm getting dizzy!

 

[EXOTIC1]

That's called "moving the goal posts". Because this is what you actually said:



Now you are claiming "a certain car" rolls up beside you (at 70 mph)? Not "any" or "many" cars, but "a certain car". And not 50 mph, but 70 mph?

Please, make up your mind, I'm getting dizzy!

thx
please reread
i guess rather than vaguely stating above 50
i should have been clearer with highway speeds (exact speed)
which i clarified in the above post with my experience
it's not a big deal i love my car and wouldn't trade it for any other sedan
i'm a BEARS fan please don't bring up goal posts analogy.... that hurts lol

 

[StealthP3D]

you should really reread
it's pretty clear
thx
it's not really that difficult to follow along

I already re-read it and that is why I said you're moving the goal posts.

The P3D is stupid fast, even from 50 mph. Cars that can beat it are pretty rare. Even the LR RWD (which we also have) has a big advantage over most cars on the road today. A BIG advantage.

 

[Drizzle]

Gears won't improve the Model 3's 60-100 mph at all because it's already at peak power the entire way. A lower gear could make all versions of the Model 3 traction limited to 30 mph (and improve acceleration from 0-45 mph) but a higher gear isn't going to anything to improve performance at speeds above that.

A simple software update could though. However, that might be hard on the batteries. Tesla could increase their warranty costs if the packs of the hardest driven Model 3's started declining too much before 8 years or 120,000 miles due to excessive power draw.

Hmm ok, guess I have some reading to do. My limited knowledge of simple machines and gears made me think that they would always help out.

 

[wordless888]

50? Many? I think that's overstating it, given they have transmissions that will need to waste time downshifting.... passing times up to at least 70 are crazy fast on Teslas.


For some perspective, here's the times from a run on an AWD (non P) Model 3

30-50 1.5 seconds

50-70 2.06 seconds

30-70 3.56 seconds


How does that compare to cars that definitely are less common than "many"?


2015 Nissan GT-R Test – Review – Car and Driver
That's the 2015 GT-R (545 hp, 463 torque)...0-60 is 3 flat. Quicker than even the Model 3 Performance.

30-50? 3.8 seconds. Slower than the AWD Model 3 goes 30-70.

50-70 in the GTR? 3.1 seconds...~50% slower than the Model 3 AWD.

Well damn... ok... how bout even quicker cars?

2020 Audi R8 Reviews | Audi R8 Price, Photos, and Specs | Car and Driver

Review of an Audi R8 with a number of other quick cars listed with 0-60 and 50-70 times. Remember the AWD Model 3 is 2.06 50-70.

Porsche 911 Turbo S. 0-60 in 2.7. The 50-70? 2.5.
McLaren 570S. 0-60 in 2.7. 50-70 in...2.7


(the R8 V10 FWIW is 3.2 0-60, and 2.4 50-70)

Ok. What else we got?

https://hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/f...rmance-data-and-complete-specs-1532365631.pdf

That's a $143,810 ZR-1 corvette vs a $348,730 Porsche 911 GT2 RS.

Vette 30-50? 1.9 seconds. 50-70? 2.3 Both slower than the AWD Model 3.

GT2 30-50? 2 flat. Still half a second slower than the M3 AWD.

Finally at 50-70 the Tesla, at 2.06, loses... to the 350k porsche which does it in...2.0

And the Model 3 P?

30-50 on a Model 3 P is 1.2, and 50-70 is 1.7


And BTW- all the Model 3 numbers are from mid-late last year- before the power bump they just pushed out... and since most of the power is allegedly around 45mph and higher, I expect things look even worse for "most" cars at passing speeds like 50-70.

Most of the numbers from those articles have those cars running in their top gear (6th or 7th gear depending on the car) so that’s not really a fair comparison, or really a comparison at all. If those cars were in 2nd or 3rd gear for those tests, it would be a much more fair comparison.

 

[Knightshade]

Most of the numbers from those articles have those cars running in their top gear (6th or 7th gear depending on the car) so that’s not really a fair comparison, or really a comparison at all. If those cars were in 2nd or 3rd gear for those tests, it would be a much more fair comparison.

It wouldn't though.

The GT-R is in top gear by 30 mph. This is such a known thing there's actually a dude who does aftermarket ECU flashes to "fix" the stock programming that does that. So when you floor it at 50 to go to 70 it takes time to downshift from said top gear. Which is slow.

That's why the times are slower than a Tesla that doesn't have to do that.

And that's incredibly common in ICE cars because getting into top gear as soon as possible (when not at WOT) is how you make your EPA numbers marginally better.

 

[wenkan]

Most of the numbers from those articles have those cars running in their top gear (6th or 7th gear depending on the car) so that’s not really a fair comparison, or really a comparison at all. If those cars were in 2nd or 3rd gear for those tests, it would be a much more fair comparison.

I think it at least make some sense. The comparison is for how fast you can pull to your claimed performance when cruising on highway. Yes they can keep at 4000rpm for the start of the test, but can you keep 4000rpm all the way along the highway? No one will drive like that. Even launch control mode cannot keep you rev 4000 for 10 minutes.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Hmm ok, guess I have some reading to do. My limited knowledge of simple machines and gears made me think that they would always help out.

You're not really wrong. First, the P3D is not at peak power all the way from 60-100mph. Power drops by perhaps 30% by 100mph. So optimal gearing for that range would help (ideally). If the P3D stayed at peak power from 60-100mph, Tesla probably would have made the current gearing a bit shorter - you want to get to peak HP as fast as possible if it doesn't drop off at higher speeds!

But, it drops off (do take dyno plots with a grain of salt - case in point, the data below 20mph is obviously completely invalid, and even the speed axis may be a bit off - depends on dyno setup potentially). But based on general electric motor behavior, they do not maintain constant HP output as RPM increases after hitting their peak power output, and the plot is probably ok at higher speeds:

anyone VBOX a P3D on 19.8.3 yet? man it feels faster

Even with a single gear, you could adjust this plot so that the peak HP occurred at higher speed, via less gear reduction than 9:1 (so for the faster wheel speed at say 80-90mph the motor would be turning slower and closer to peak HP). You'd have to modify the gearbox and call it "permanent second gear". But that would mean a slower 0-45 times, etc., so there's a tradeoff.

If you wanted to add complexity, the "novel" introduction of a short first gear (which has more reduction than the current 9:1) in addition to the above "permanent second gear" would eliminate that newly introduced 0-45 problem, and you'd have BOTH faster 0-60 times and up to 30% higher acceleration at speed.

Pretty sure you knew this already based on your above post.

But it's more complexity, weight, etc., and for most practical purposes is a bit silly.

 

[JeffK]

Gears won't improve the Model 3's 60-100 mph at all because it's already at peak power the entire way.

No, not according to the dyno.

 

[MXWing]

That's why I love my P3D-

no one knows......until it's too late.

Too bad they don’t make them anymore. With most Model 3s looking identical, particularly the 3P- no idea which one is fast or not.

I’m a big fan of herd innoculation.

Best for corvettes to take it easy off the line or potentially get embarrassed.

 

[MXWing]

So all these people making posts about random ICE car being better than the Model 3 in contrived scenarios a,b,c,d really don’t get it at all.

Which one of these cars can seat five, have a full trunk and frunk from a Costco run and can still destroy anything but another Tesla off the line which is where cars typically show off?

Also for the ultimate in show off - you can turn on eap and throw double middle fingers at the chump who wanted to rev on you.

 

[voip-ninja]

Don’t feel too smug. Tesla’s are great off the line but they get absolutely destroyed in any other scenario.

LOL.

Cough BS. Cough.

What no one is quite saying out loud, though, is that a 1:21.49 snips a lifetime-like 1.29 seconds from Randy's recent lap in the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio. The new time essentially matches a 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4 and even beats a former Best Driver's Car winner, the 2011 Ferrari 458 Italia (1:22.30). Until the new BMW M3 shows up, that perches the Model 3 atop the podium as the world's quickest sport sedan—at least around this track.

 

[StealthP3D]

No, not according to the dyno.

The dyno doesn't measure motor torque, it measures wheel torque (and any associated losses along the way including aerodynamic drag of the wheels themselves).

But, yes, I did overstate it, it would be more accurate to say the motor current remains constant (at its peak amount) from 60-100 mph. And that current limit is software limited.

In a Model 3, 60 mph is about 7100 RPM's and 100 mph is about 12,000 RPM's. Because the motor loses around 15% efficiency between 7100 and 12,000 RPM's, power will be down by an equivalent amount (at 12K vs. 7.1K RPMs). But that's hardly enough to make a multi-speed transmission perform better, once you consider the additional transmission losses associated with a multi-speed transmission and the necessary clutch and/or torque converter and the shift lag. It's just better to have the more efficient single speed transmission, no clutch or torque converter, fewer bearings, less rotational inertia and no shift lag. Many of the performance advantages of electric cars stem directly from these advantages associated with not having a multi-speed transmission.

As usual, the dyno does not tell the entire story.