right, of course you could do this. seems like a complete waste of $$ to me though.
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P85 With Performance Plus Option Feedback
- Thread starter Solarguy
- Start date
right, of course you could do this. seems like a complete waste of $$ to me though.
dennis
Model S Plaid
I believe you are grossly exaggerating the cost associated with the 21" P+ tires. I have 8000 miles on mine since upgrading my P85 to the + specs and have plenty of rear tread left. And I drive the car aggressively - just ask my passengers! No blowouts/tow trucks/etc. in 14K miles on 21" rims. Same for the 14K miles on low profile tires on my McLaren.
Handling is subjective, so my recommendation to anyone considering a P85 is to test drive both versions and decide for yourself. That said, since I have owned both versions, the P+ is definitely for me.
I think the P85 is the way to go in this case. Unless you are willing to put up with added cost of not only 21" rims and tires but the inability to rotate the tires then the P85 with upgraded 19" tires would work great.
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You have that option. You seem to jump on anyone who considers 21" rims and tires. If someone is aware of the issues, lives in a warm climate with good roads and doesn't mind buying new tires every year and can afford it shouldn't they be able to? The 21" rims look nice and have much better grip than the 19" all season tires Tesla sells and that is enough for some people. I've driven 15,000 miles and no issues with potholes and bent rims.
yes i like to embellish with dreadful like descriptions but I do like to drive my point across as Tesla doesn't seem to give a good enough (if any at all) fair warning about what to expect with those 21s. many people just 'MAX OUT MY MODEL S' and have never driven on extremely low profile tires and they have no idea what they just ordered. so it catches them offguard when they bend two rims or blow 4 tires in back to back weeks (especially here in the northeast) and get slammed with $2k-$8k repair bills.
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and the only time i could honestly recommend the 21s is if you have unlimited funds and you love the looks and don't mind calling the occasional tow truck and rental car for help.
lol I wasn't even referring to their low tread life either haha. thats a whole other issue. BTW I did get 47.5k miles on my OEM 19" goodyear tires. I just changed them last weekend. all 4 tires had about 3-4/32" left on them. they had developed inside edge wear too but werent down to the cords or anything yet. I did have my car serviced/realigned the weekend before so I should be good to go now. I could still have driven them a few thousand miles more safely if I wanted to get even more miles out of them but those grey 19" TST turbines were staring at me in the garage calling my name out and I couldn't resist anymore. That plus the date I switched them (may 10th) was the last day Michelin was running a $70 rebate card for a set of tires.
@yobigd20, do you ever make it up to the Boston area? I'd love to try your P85 with those A/S 3s!
Thanks!
Alan
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Hi,
I think @yobigd20's point of view is valid, even if I'd never willing part with my +. @lolachampcar in particular recommends coil spring suspension P85 with some mods as being a much better value for the money than a P85+. And given that guy's racing background, and my lack thereof, I'm not going to argue that he's wrong. Still love my +, though.
I'd also point out that, while @yobigd20 is absolutely correct about the risks of the low profile tires, and about the occasional problems with towing (and I think he is referring to one horror story in particular), the forums are also full of stories of people upgrading from 19s to 21s and from P85s to P85+s. I couldn't begin to say what the numbers of stories of upgrades are versus downgrades, just that there are a lot of people going 19=>21 and/or P=>P+.
So far, this driver's current story is 14K miles, of which about 5K on the summer 21s and about 9K on the winter 19s. Plus Boston potholes (grrrr). So far no blowouts. But you're only ever one bad moment away from a pretty annoying experience with any tire.
Oh, finally, if anything, I would wonder whether @yobigd20 is *underestimating* the savings from 19s versus 21s. That $10K is only the initial purchase. If you're like me, there are the costs of four additional rims (the 19") and fancy winter tires (R2s), plus you'll probably replace these tires at something of an accelerated rate compared to just sticking with 19" wheels and maybe @yobigd20's A/S 3s. Plus don't forget the cost of fixing your wheels at maybe $100/wheel whenever the rashing finally exceeds your tolerance level.
Alan
Thanks!
Alan
Ok I'd like to add my 2c.
First, are you ok with spending $2k on tires every other month? Because that's exactly what you're going to do with the P85+ and those low profile rear tires. If you don't blow them out on every pothole you hit, you'll certainly burn through the rubber in no time(5-7k). And if you go blow them pot on a pothole or other road debris, you'll probably also be replacing the wheel too. Add another $1500 or more for that. If you have unlimited funds though, then this probably isn't a problem for you. Oh, unless your time is important. Because you'll be spending a lot of time in tow trucks.
Also, if you live in an area that sees sub-40 degree temperature, you DO NOT WANT the 21s whatsoever.
That being said, I just replaced my OEM 19" goodyear's on my P85 with 255/45ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 and HOLY CRAP it makes a MASSIVE difference. The car no longer slips under heavy accel. All that floaty feeling is completely gone. Stomp on it and it just rockets. It feels planted like none other, the grip is amazing. On top of that, it is MUCH quieter than the goodyears ever were. The ride is much incredibly smoother too. I'm amazed at the feeling now. It feels like a brand new car and a totally different driving experience. I'm literally shocked at the different these Pilot Sport A/S 3's have over those goodyears. I had no idea swapping the tires like that could have such a massive effect on the driving experience. IMO there is absolutely no need for the + package or summer tires or those 21s. If you're looking for grip and traction and performance and smoothness and quiet ride while making NONE of the sacrifices and issues or the maintenance costs of the 21s, then these 19" Michelin's are the way to go. Even though they are technically an all-season tire, these Pilot Sport A/S 3's are rated even higher than summer performance tires are with regards to dry traction. On top of that they are also at the top of the charts for wet traction too. Really you get the best of ALL worlds here. Stick them on TSportline TST Turbine wheels and keep that factory look going too. This is really the way to go. Oh, they are lighter too aka lower unsprung weight.
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Hi,
I think @yobigd20's point of view is valid, even if I'd never willing part with my +. @lolachampcar in particular recommends coil spring suspension P85 with some mods as being a much better value for the money than a P85+. And given that guy's racing background, and my lack thereof, I'm not going to argue that he's wrong. Still love my +, though.
I'd also point out that, while @yobigd20 is absolutely correct about the risks of the low profile tires, and about the occasional problems with towing (and I think he is referring to one horror story in particular), the forums are also full of stories of people upgrading from 19s to 21s and from P85s to P85+s. I couldn't begin to say what the numbers of stories of upgrades are versus downgrades, just that there are a lot of people going 19=>21 and/or P=>P+.
So far, this driver's current story is 14K miles, of which about 5K on the summer 21s and about 9K on the winter 19s. Plus Boston potholes (grrrr). So far no blowouts. But you're only ever one bad moment away from a pretty annoying experience with any tire.
Oh, finally, if anything, I would wonder whether @yobigd20 is *underestimating* the savings from 19s versus 21s. That $10K is only the initial purchase. If you're like me, there are the costs of four additional rims (the 19") and fancy winter tires (R2s), plus you'll probably replace these tires at something of an accelerated rate compared to just sticking with 19" wheels and maybe @yobigd20's A/S 3s. Plus don't forget the cost of fixing your wheels at maybe $100/wheel whenever the rashing finally exceeds your tolerance level.
Alan
read my post just above yours. I completely disagree. I dont see the value in the + package at all. You can get all the benefit of the + package by simply putting better tires on the 19s. Save yourself $10k. Trust me. Apparently you missed the ever expanding number of posts on these forums from the members selling their 21s and downgrading to 19s because of the very very very high cost of maintenance and their high susceptibility to blowouts and damage to the rims and how they don't want to be sitting on the side of the highway again with their family waiting for the tow truck to come. that's even if they have luck finding a tow truck to come. there have been a few incidents where tow truck companies dont want to touch a Model S and how they were forced to go to a hotel and leave their MS on the shoulder for hours until they can get someone to pick it up. just a heads up ... you've been warned
ibxspeedracer
Member
"Unlimited funds"!? Hum! Aren't we members of forum where we own $100k+ cars!?
"Love the looks"!? Vision, isn't that like our, by far the most dominant sense!?
"tow truck"!? 30-40 series profile tires on my past 10 cars and between myself and all friends with similar history and I haven't even heard of a blow out! Ever!
It's all good though, I'm all about choices
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simplesolar
Member
P85+ gets my vote. Suspension on the P85 feels like jello to me, but I come from driving sports cars.
I came from a modified/aftermarket TT RS. My choice was between a very stripped down P85+, or a well optioned P85. I really convinced myself I wanted the plus, but changed my mind at the last minute (primarily due to money at first).
I test drove both before hand, and I am happy. Honestly, with the weight of the battery, I'm convinced the majority of the P85+ is in the staggered 21's. Personally, I am buying staggered 20's, and will see.
As for floaty vs flat: I actually prefer it a little floaty. It feels like my car is going to take off. The P85+ isn't any more power off the line, so I am happy. Drive both of them, and consider what you could spend that money on. I used to think I would dump 20k into a retrofit in a year, but now I probably won't bother. I am happy. P85 or P85+ the car is amazing.
I test drove both before hand, and I am happy. Honestly, with the weight of the battery, I'm convinced the majority of the P85+ is in the staggered 21's. Personally, I am buying staggered 20's, and will see.
As for floaty vs flat: I actually prefer it a little floaty. It feels like my car is going to take off. The P85+ isn't any more power off the line, so I am happy. Drive both of them, and consider what you could spend that money on. I used to think I would dump 20k into a retrofit in a year, but now I probably won't bother. I am happy. P85 or P85+ the car is amazing.
ha well yes, but many of us cannot afford a $100k ICE car such as myself. hell, even a $50k ICE car + gas is more expensive per month than my $100k MS. but the truth of my statement is not really about the up front costs but more the maintenance costs. spending $1k for 19" tires every 50k miles is much cheaper in the long run that than spending $2-4k every 10k miles for 21" tire replacement due to tread life not even counting the additional random $5k in tire and rim replacements every few months for pothole damage.
yea i guess thats why nobody buys those ugly compliance cars like the i3
clearly you've never driven through the northeast then. everyone i've known to drive low profile tires has the occasional blowout every year or more. even a few weeks ago a brand new mustang in front of me on the turnpike blew out his entire tire off his rear driver side wheel on a very minor pothole (I hit the same pothole at the same speed ~75mph and was fine) and he was driving on just the straight up rim with sparks flying everywhere (and all over the hood of my car bc I was right behind him) and he barely held the car from spinning out straight into a concrete barrier (left lane, no shoulder). wish I had a dashcam for that one. that took some skills to avoid a major mess there and could have been fatal for him (and me) as there were three 18 wheelers right next to us in the middle lane. BTW no damage to my car or paint from those sparks and road crap he was trenching up as I have XPEL Ultimate PPF on the full front.
I agree with you (yobigd20) relative to the northeast and the midwest states especially. If I lived where the roads were decent with very minimal potholes and such I would probably get the P+ and have 21 inch wheels. Unfortunately for me living in Michigan I don't want to take the chance on having a blowout and possibly losing control of the car.
I was (still are) thinking of getting a P+ and selling the 21's and getting 19's but don't know if I would gain that much since I would be giving up the main advantage in going to a P+, i.e. handling due to the 19's.
My main concern is possible float of a P85 air at times. Do you mainly have the float during relatively fast lane changes/taking sharper curves or are there other conditions that exhibit it?
I'm ready to push the order button and have been delaying it for a couple months now due to this reason (P85 air, P85+).
I was (still are) thinking of getting a P+ and selling the 21's and getting 19's but don't know if I would gain that much since I would be giving up the main advantage in going to a P+, i.e. handling due to the 19's.
My main concern is possible float of a P85 air at times. Do you mainly have the float during relatively fast lane changes/taking sharper curves or are there other conditions that exhibit it?
I'm ready to push the order button and have been delaying it for a couple months now due to this reason (P85 air, P85+).
When I compared the two, as an average driver, the only difference I noticed is that the P85+ had better control and traction when turning at higher speed and did not drift when I thought it would based on my S85 experience and P85 quick drive. The additional width on the rear tires and extra stickiness from the tires makes a difference. The beefed up suspension made handling during the hard turn a breeze--went exactly where pointed. Actually it was a weird feeling as I expected the car to drift and it didn't.
If you have the money, go for it as then you won't have any regrets or remorse. That said, having driver a P85 and P85+ back to back, I felt the P85 was perfect and I personally would not upgrade to a + (I have an S85). My next MS will be a P85. While I drive more than many due to my job, I still consider myself an average driver as I don't drive for performance. My 2 cents...
If you have the money, go for it as then you won't have any regrets or remorse. That said, having driver a P85 and P85+ back to back, I felt the P85 was perfect and I personally would not upgrade to a + (I have an S85). My next MS will be a P85. While I drive more than many due to my job, I still consider myself an average driver as I don't drive for performance. My 2 cents...
I put 12 K on a P85 and now about 8 K on a +. I'm very happy with 19's on the P85+, long tire life, better traction in the wet temperate climate in the northwest and superb all around handling when I feel like indulging in the power. I have heard that some of the upgrades of the + have been added to the P, so some the wiggle in the rear upon rapid acceleration of the P has been improved, but I have not experienced the new P85's vs the one we owned. I can say the difference in handling is substantial between the two I have owned and that road noise was an issue with the + until we switched to the 19's. we absolutely love our P85+!
I don't have that floatiness anymore. I had the car in for its 48k mile service two weeks ago. last week I put on those 255/45ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 and the grip is totally awesome. It holds the road very well, not a slight bit of floatiness or slip at all. This is the way the P85 should have always been from day 1. Very highly recommended. In retrospect now that I know what these feel like, those goodyears were totally cheap crap. These 255 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 tires are worth the investment.
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