P85D Question??

[whitex]

I found no difference between the 70D without LTE and the P90 with - save your money and put it into your tire fund.

It's not the speed, it's coverage. I know of one spot where I park semi-regularly where the car had a real hard time connecting on 3G (I would not be able to preheat it via app) but has no issues with LTE. Notice also that any new cell base stations deployments and upgrades are usually LTE, so the 3G disadvantage is only going to grow.

 

[BigNick]

As 3G is several years old, the infrastructure might be allowed to deteriorate as the telephone companies invest in building out the next-gen networks. In 5 years, there might not be much of a 3G network to connect to when 5G is the standard.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I've posted this probably a dozen times already. The entire 3G vs LTE upgrade thing is no different than politics or religion.

For some people, in some locations, it's like a night/day difference. For others, it's totally worthless. There is no right or wrong. Cellular performance depends on so many different factors, nobody can make a blanket statement that it's a great upgrade for everyone or complete waste of money for everyone.

For me personally, in two different cars (P85+ and P85D) I paid for the upgrade, and found both cars cellular performance to be significantly better.

Now right off the bat, nobody will notice any difference at all in the in car browser -- the browser is the limiting factor (NOT the CPU). The browser is crap and always will be.

Where I saw the most significant gains were Nav tile redraws/reloads and Slacker streaming. With 3G, the Nav redraws could take up to 30 seconds (or more, sometimes) and with LTE, usually under 10, sometimes even less. With Slacker and LTE, I've never had a problem with skips or loads (well, that is until the most recent streaming/throttling issues people are having, but that's not a factor between 3G or LTE).

Is it worth $500? For me, hell yes, in both cases. For everyone else, you have to make your own decision. But don't listen to people that make proclamations that it is completely worthless and a waste of money. Perhaps for them it was, and that's OK. That's how religion works.

 

[HankLloydRight]

The 3G to LTE upgrade is complete bunk on a Tesla

Not true. The only thing the browser is good for is a cellular speed test using fast.com. You can clearly see the speed differences on LTE compared to 3G.

The computer is so slow in it that any gains you might get from LTE are mitigated by the latency for the MCU.

Again, the bottleneck is not the MCU/CPU, as plenty of other people have seen significant gains with LTE.

 

[Naonak]

Not true. The only thing the browser is good for is a cellular speed test using fast.com. You can clearly see the speed differences on LTE compared to 3G.



Again, the bottleneck is not the MCU/CPU, as plenty of other people have seen significant gains with LTE.

I disagree, and I challenge anyone to tell the difference in a blind test. I believe the gains people see are confirmation bias for the most part. There may be some limited markets where it makes a huge difference, but I have yet to run across one of those markets, stretching from New York to North Carolina, to Texas and to Colorado and many points in between. Major cities, rural areas, virtually no difference between LTE and 3G. Occasionally I'll get a slow map load that I notice, but I also get those slow map loads on LTE cars at times, so again, no difference. Song loads are the same, no difference, ever.

Now, you could make the argument that there's better coverage for LTE - I am not sure about that. I've rarely had instances where I don't have coverage in either a 3G or LTE car, though, so I'd question even that.

Using a synthetic speed test is not a good measure of real-world performance of your data connection in a Tesla. As I said, the MCU is the bottleneck here. It's slow, lags massively, and has a host of other issues that mask or mitigate any gains an LTE connection might give you. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the MCU can't even keep up with much more than a 3G connection in terms of routing, since it's doing so many other things, the cellular data stack and the TCP/IP stack likely have a ridiculously high queue depth most of the time.

It's interesting that you say the browser is only good for a speed test. I wasn't even talking about using the browser... I never use it in the car, it's just a recipe for frustration. I forgot there was even a browser at all. The things I'm talking about are maps and music. LTE makes zero difference for those. Besides those and the browser, there's not really much else the end user should care about as far as data connection speeds go.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Yup, just like I said ...religion. A lot of people have seen significant improvements with LTE, so not everyone is suffering from confirmation bias. I could say the exact same thing about your observations. And obviously I'm not going to be able to change your mind about it, nor will I try. All I do know, along with alot of other scientific and highly technically aware people, it makes a huge difference.

 

[jbcarioca]

Yup, just like I said ...religion. A lot of people have seen significant improvements with LTE, so not everyone is suffering from confirmation bias. I could say the exact same thing about your observations. And obviously I'm not going to be able to change your mind about it, nor will I try. All I do know, along with alot of other scientific and highly technically aware people, it makes a huge difference.

For exactly those reasons I have not commented too much about either one, other than that I thought Ludicrous was worth the price for the mid-range passing speeds. I thought LTE was worth it for better sound (the wiring harness change that is included probably the source rather than the LTE itself) and improved reception in a few areas, although that was always questionable due to all the variables involved. Still, LTE is supported almost everywhere and 3G is being phased out (IIRC T-Mobile 2019 and Verizon 2020, others worldwide eliminating 3G support...).

I'm not sure that these are exactly 'religious' differences, but they certainly have those elements. Neither one is magical, but both were well worth it for me too.

 

[Naonak]

Yup, just like I said ...religion. A lot of people have seen significant improvements with LTE, so not everyone is suffering from confirmation bias. I could say the exact same thing about your observations. And obviously I'm not going to be able to change your mind about it, nor will I try. All I do know, along with alot of other scientific and highly technically aware people, it makes a huge difference.

But that's the problem, you haven't actually pointed out any "huge differences," just some vague claim of it making a difference. I've pointed out specific areas where it makes no difference... geographically, I've pointed out a vast majority of the US. Technically, I've pointed out maps and song loading are not noticeably any faster, and certainly not "huge difference" faster.

Religion or not, if you're going to make a claim, back it up with something other than vague handwaving and saying it's a good value for the money. Don't waste peoples time and money for no reason. If you've got something, bring it to the table, otherwise, your claims are just mental gymnastics. Provide some proof or evidence of these "huge differences." I've provided my proof in the forms of locations and specific applications.

So tell me, WHAT has changed in a "huge difference" manner for you between LTE and 3G? Is there a particular location that sees a "huge difference?" Is there a particular application where there is a "huge difference?"

As soon as you point those out, I will go out to my 3G car and video the result. I will then step over to the LTE car and video that result and we can see this "huge difference." That will, in fact, change my mind. But, I suspect the converse will not be true, even if you see there is virtually no difference, your mind won't be changed. Confirmation bias.

 

[HankLloydRight]

For crying out loud, your claims are no different than mine. "I've driven across country.. blah blah blah".

I drove my P85+ to Florida and back with 3G, and then again with LTE, and the difference (which I already noted) in Nav map redraws and streaming radio were remarkable. Go back and read my posts -- with 3G, map redraws would take forever, and sometimes not even complete. With LTE, they are done within seconds. This is, as you say, up and down the eastern seaboard. Several times. What makes your experience any better than mine?

And sorry, I would not trust an A/B test from someone so biased as you. I've seen the differences, and know they are real. You just refuse to believe it... so any test you do would be just as biased. And I'm not offering a similar test for the same reasons. But you can not say that EVERYONE that has experienced significant LTE performance increases are delusional, uninformed, or suffering from confirmation bias. Your entire argument is based on a sample size of ONE. You. Against hundreds or more people who have reported significant gains. Who's the delusional one?

I really don't care to argue this anymore, as I've said now thrice, religious debates never end well. You have your beliefs and evidence, I have mine. NOTHING I say will convince you otherwise, so it's pointless.

And finally, I didn't tell people to go waste their money. I said the experience with LTE is different for everyone, and depends on dozens of different factors, and everyone should make their OWN decision. They shouldn't just listen to me, just as they shouldn't listen to you tell them it's a useless upgrade, when in fact it might work great for them.

 

[jbcarioca]

For crying out loud, your claims are no different than mine. "I've driven across country.. blah blah blah".

I drove my P85+ to Florida and back with 3G, and then again with LTE, and the difference (which I already noted) in Nav map redraws and streaming radio were remarkable. Go back and read my posts -- with 3G, map redraws would take forever, and sometimes not even complete. With LTE, they are done within seconds. This is, as you say, up and down the eastern seaboard. Several times. What makes your experience any better than mine?

... I said the experience with LTE is different for everyone, and depends on dozens of different factors, and everyone should make their OWN decision. They shouldn't just listen to me, just as they shouldn't listen to you tell them it's a useless upgrade, when in fact it might work great for them.

I drove my P85D 3G Miami to Columbus, OH with 3G. A few months later I drove Miami to New Orleans with LTE. OK, not identical.
However, I did an identical Miami-Orlando round trip with 3G and the same one a week later with LTE.
t the time I recall several people telling me my report of improved audio quality was evidence of bias. It was only later that I discovered that LTE included a significantly upgraded writing harness that did has better specifications intended in part to improve streaming sound quality. Still, I could have been biased. Software updates could also have done that.

As for loading time on maps, I can only suggest that there are several variables involved that could also have been included in software updates.

I will not suggest that people who say the LTE update is worthless are incorrect. I will only say that I am not prone to blowing money uselessly and I'd buy it again if I had to repeat the transaction.

For the OP, I suggest that you ignore us all and think for yourself. Whatever the case the early (late 2014) P85D is truly a wonderful car and the P85D is even better. You'll be happy!!

 

[sakimano]

LTE on my phone is good for about 60-100 megabits
LTE in my tesla is good for about 1-2 megabits at best and usually around 0.5

I can't imagine what the 3G is like if its worse.

 

[SHARRIS1911]

For crying out loud, your claims are no different than mine. "I've driven across country.. blah blah blah".

I drove my P85+ to Florida and back with 3G, and then again with LTE, and the difference (which I already noted) in Nav map redraws and streaming radio were remarkable. Go back and read my posts -- with 3G, map redraws would take forever, and sometimes not even complete. With LTE, they are done within seconds. This is, as you say, up and down the eastern seaboard. Several times. What makes your experience any better than mine?

And sorry, I would not trust an A/B test from someone so biased as you. I've seen the differences, and know they are real. You just refuse to believe it... so any test you do would be just as biased. And I'm not offering a similar test for the same reasons. But you can not say that EVERYONE that has experienced significant LTE performance increases are delusional, uninformed, or suffering from confirmation bias. Your entire argument is based on a sample size of ONE. You. Against hundreds or more people who have reported significant gains. Who's the delusional one?

I really don't care to argue this anymore, as I've said now thrice, religious debates never end well. You have your beliefs and evidence, I have mine. NOTHING I say will convince you otherwise, so it's pointless.

And finally, I didn't tell people to go waste their money. I said the experience with LTE is different for everyone, and depends on dozens of different factors, and everyone should make their OWN decision. They shouldn't just listen to me, just as they shouldn't listen to you tell them it's a useless upgrade, when in fact it might work great for them.

Thanks of the extensive dialogue, lol. Looks like I'll be upgrading to LTE. Actually, my mind was already made up!