Evil Twin
Member
There have been many stories of people buying CPO P85D's and ending up with a bonus, unplanned Ludicrous.
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P85D vs P90DL - Questions - Please Help
- Thread starter rowing guy
- Start date
That is wrong. They should disclose that and service history like other car mfrs to enable buyers to make an informed purchase decision
A P85D on the move above about 30mph is no different to an 85D, the battery being the limit, This is when ludicrous really comes into its own. On P90DLs, unsurprisingly the later the car, the greater version of battery, the only real reason why an early P90DL would have a higher.version is if the battery had to be replaced, accepting that when new versions came out, the production seemed to be a bit of a lottery on which you got during the transition and not building in vin order.
Boils down to price, I wouldn’t pay much for a P85D over a 85D of otherwise similar spec, I wouldn’t pay much for an early P90DL over a P85DL, I would pay a premium for a facelift v3 P90DL over a prefacelift.
Boils down to price, I wouldn’t pay much for a P85D over a 85D of otherwise similar spec, I wouldn’t pay much for an early P90DL over a P85DL, I would pay a premium for a facelift v3 P90DL over a prefacelift.
It's true there's a much bigger difference between the 85D and P85D below 30 MPH than above it, but above it a P85D's(non ludicrous) 418KW is still quite a bit more than the 85D's 376KW (over 55 hp difference).
So when did the V2 battery suddenly become not desirable? It's still 1600 amps like the V3 vs the V1's 1500 amps and I wasn't aware the V2 suffered the same degradation that the V1 did.
Did something change in the last few years that I'm not aware of?
whitex
Well-Known Member
Possibly:
- 85D's got a firmware upgrade and when Tesla settled with a group of European owners over the advertised 691hp, they released the actual numbers:
- The hp difference between S85D and P85D is 46hp. P85D Ludicrous adds another 46hp (as per description of the $5K upgrade we bought, it adds 10% more power to 463hp P85D).
- 90 batteries were short lived, and seemed like a stopgap measure while developing the 100 battery. 70's and 90 were the two batteries which didn't have long production runs, so possibly not as thoroughly tested (and with the 90's, definitively pushed to its very limits).
Don TLR
Active Member
So V3 batteries are definitely in Facelift models??
Arizona is going back to standard registration fees for EV's versus $150 for 5 years and I'd like to upgrade before that as it will save thousands over the years..
I'm looking at, a P90DL that's local and in great shape but most likely V1 battery, should I try to find a P85DL over that car, I see people say no to a 90 battery but are those actual owners or just internet experts.
Arizona is going back to standard registration fees for EV's versus $150 for 5 years and I'd like to upgrade before that as it will save thousands over the years..
I'm looking at, a P90DL that's local and in great shape but most likely V1 battery, should I try to find a P85DL over that car, I see people say no to a 90 battery but are those actual owners or just internet experts.
Evil Twin
Member
you may find v2's in facelift, but you won't find a v3 in a pre-facelift unless you find someone who had a failed v1 or 2 and got Tesla to replace it with a v3 (talk about unicorn hunting, but they exist).
Don TLR
Active Member
Not really possible to search unless the owner has stated before turning in a lease (most likely) or on a trade in.. I may just have to suck up the $$ post Jan 1 for registration and wait for prices to come down and up my budget.
Building a pool right now that's about 30 over my initial thought..
Building a pool right now that's about 30 over my initial thought..
The P85D(non ludicrous makes 560 hp at the battery vs the 691 claimed by Tesla). The 463 means nothing. My P85D dynoed 500 at the wheels on an all wheel drive dyno which is still nowhere near what Tesla originally claimed but still more than the 463 the later put which was conservative because that represents a realistic value with a cold battery at 75% SOC vs a hot battery at 90+%SOC.
The 85D firmware update came long before the settlement you mentioned and did not increase peak hp but did increase hp from a luanch to 30 or 40 mph or so.
85D's make 376 kw 504 hp vs the P85D's 560 hp at the battery. The difference will be less at the wheels but manufacturers never spec vehicle hp at the wheels.
Back to my original question. The 1500 V1 batteries had degradation issues. Is there any evidence that the 1600 amp V2 batteries also had these same issues? Not saying there isn't but I haven't seen it posted or referenced anywhere except in threads where it is mentioned as fact without being backed up.
My advice to anyone looking. Don't worry about what version of battery you're getting in a P90D. It will eventually be replaced before the 8 year warranty expires with something probably newer. Even P85D that are getting replacements have reported getting V2 and V3 batteries 90 batteries.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Where are you getting these numbers?
Yes the 85D upgrade came way before the Euo P85D settlement - I never said it did, I only said the the actual hp numbers came at that point. If you compare the original hp spec for 85D published by Tesla (see below) and the one they published after the settlement (see my post #27 above), there is a difference of 41hp. A power peak increase would explain it, but if you say they didn't, how do you explain the fact that the "battery limited motor shaft power" (417hp) is greater than "motor power"(376hp)?
Years of CANBUS and REST API logging from 85Ds and P85Ds. Use search. The 85D makes the same peak 376 KW that it did before and after the update that improved it's 0-60 times. The update improved the 0-30 speed even after the update, the 85D doesn't produce peak power until after 45 mph since it and the P85D are both traction limited below that. The 50-70 passing times did not improve with the update.
The P85D also got an update that improved it's 0-60 from 3.2 down to 3.1 but since it was already closer to the traction limited reserve, it's improvement was limited. But it's peak power also was unchanged at 415 to 418KW. The ludicrous upgrade that came later and increased peak power allowed it to decrease from 3.1 to 2.85 because it was able to apply more power from 45 to 60 MPH where it had traction reserves left to add more power.
You can't go by any numbers that Tesla publishes. They are fiction proven over and over. The P85D was excessively overrated at first then underrated. The 85 was way underrated as it produces within a few kw of the 85Ds peak power. Both the 85D and 85 have nearly the same 50-70 passing speed but the 85D kills the 85 to 60 (4 seconds vs 5 seconds) given the 85s AWD traction and applying more power early in acceleration.
All this has been beaten to death over thousands and thousands of posts concentrated mostly in 2015. Use search. There's also quite a bit of vbox graphs posted in the past with KW / hp logging overlaid which gives us an idea of how much power we lose from the battery to the wheels.
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whitex
Well-Known Member
And herein lies the problem. Given Tesla's rapid changes and history of squeezing every bit of performance out of parts leaving no margin for manufacturing variability, you cannot trust what one or even 10 people got at some point in the past. Not all cars may reach the same numbers, plus Tesla can freely change the software and deliver less, as long as it's at or above the advertised spec - so what you measured on the car 3 years ago may not be true today. Think Intel CPUs - if you buy their 2.0GHz chips but some people on the web tell you they can overclock them to 2.3GHz, can you reliably state that 2.0GHz chips can run at 2.3GHz? Of course not, some chips may, but they are all only guaranteed to go up to 2.0GHz. Tesla is effectively selling "overclocked" cars, squeezing every bit of performance, but sometimes in the past they have been know to limit it later if they found reliability issues.
All true. For instance P100DL+ power was, with a software update, changed to only be available with a launch mode start so passing power was drastically reduced. If that had happened to me, I'd be even more pissed than I was when i found out I was lied to about the power the P85D makes.
I can't even be sure that the 90 V2 battery's xml definition was downgraded from 1600 to 1500 amps. Heck, I don't even know that the V3 is STILL 1600 amps.
Anyone with P90DLs care to post recent CANBUS logs from 90%+ warm battery full acceleration runs?
i know this is a old thread and possibly other posts that discuss this, but are people still down on certain versions of batteries on p90dl? i have found 1 or 2 im interested in but cant find out about what battery they have and wondering if worth pursuing or just ignore them and focus on p85d
Definitely do not buy an 85 battery pack in 2020.
Tesla is removing range and limiting supercharging speeds.
85 is a solid choice. there is too much headache over the 90 pack to figure out if its v1, v2, or v3. those with v3 often price it much higher so its not worth the extra dough getting over the 85 either
I have not seen anything outside of normal degradation on my RWD 85. 253 vs 263 when new. neither do i see slower supercharging speeds.
90 suffers from some early degradation and while there are 3 versions of the battery, the newer the car the more likely its got the latest battery. A facelift 90 almost certainly has the V3 battery.
But that early degradation isn't that bad compared to the degradation that some 85 batteries are now getting in later life, the issue with the 90 was partly that it was the first Tesla battery to degrade that quickly that early on but it quickly plateaued.
But both these things don't happen to all batteries of that type. And I imagine prices reflect the issues.
But that early degradation isn't that bad compared to the degradation that some 85 batteries are now getting in later life, the issue with the 90 was partly that it was the first Tesla battery to degrade that quickly that early on but it quickly plateaued.
But both these things don't happen to all batteries of that type. And I imagine prices reflect the issues.
Sounds like you got lucky. For now.
All 85 packs are subject to batterygate and chargegate.
Advising a new owner to purchase one is disingenuous.
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