Thoughts on Buying a High Mileage 2016.5 Model S P90DL

[leocm]

Hello! Just wanted to get some thoughts on this. (I posted this on a Facebook group as well but have seen & driven it since I've posted it)

I’m looking at purchasing a 2016 Model S P90DL with about 130k miles on it. I've finally gotten a chance to drive and see the vehicle, but from the many many hours of reading I’ve done on it on TMC, it seems the 90 KWh battery seems to carry the highest failure rate of any of the packs the MS came with from that era.
I was able to verify with the battery sticker that it is a "V3" 90KWh battery pack. (P/N - 1088792-00-A with Serial T16H0059228) But based on the tag, it may be original to the car.
Car's build date is 08/2016 so it still has a few months of warranty left. The gauge cluster is showing the main pyro fuse does need to be replaced, but that's under warranty so I'm not too worried about that. Car has some paint chips, likely from a lot of highway driving, and it has some semi-worn (maybe around 50-60% tread life) Michelin tires with 2022 date code so it looks like a car that was cared for and it looks like it's in pretty good condition.

It’s a small dealer in CA and they’re asking $23.9k but it drives well and it’s optioned up exactly how I wanted it (Black over Black) so I’m gonna try to haggle down to $21-22k (it’s been on sale for over 2 months) and add on the tax credit to get it down to around $17-18k.
I am aware of the 3rd party options to have the pack replaced, but I’m trying to factor in that cost if that ends up being the case.

Is it worth going for it? Or is the mileage/battery being original a reason to steer clear of it?

 

[PCMc]

I had my June 2016 build MS90D for 7.5 years (purchased new end of June 2016). It had right at 80k miles on it when I sold it. Sorry, I never took a photo of the battery part number label, but would guess from similar build time that it's likely same version.

Here's link to a post I did a month or so ago when someone else asked very similar question.

Used Model S 2016.5 inquiry

Hello Tesla motor club forums, I was eyeing a used 2016.5 model s 75 without the air suspension or power trunk. It does have a power sunroof. I am mainly interested in the free unlimited supercharging. Is this tesla reliable? What are some things I should know about the car? Are there other...

teslamotorsclub.com

If you check for other posts I've made in the past 2 months you'll can find where I've posted graph of my apparent battery degradation over the time (about 8.5-9%) as well as typical supercharging speeds (I'd still see ability to hit 150kW peak rate and my overall time as supercharger was less than when the car was new).

 

[gaswalla]

that battery pack is probably the last revision of the 90 kWh series. Probably will hold up OK for you. How many prior owners does the car have? If it was never taken back by Tesla (after a lease or trade in), there’s a chance it has free unlimited supercharging.

 

[brainhouston]

i have 9/2016 MX with v3, currently 98k mi, no issues
i think they solved all major issues by this time
fyi, most unreliable is 85kwh pack
if u look at high mileage fb club, plenty of cars with even higher miles with no issues
i'd get obd adapter n Scan My Tesla n just check to make sure battery has good values now (can't really predict any failures tho)

 

[leocm]

I had my June 2016 build MS90D for 7.5 years (purchased new end of June 2016). It had right at 80k miles on it when I sold it. Sorry, I never took a photo of the battery part number label, but would guess from similar build time that it's likely same version.

Here's link to a post I did a month or so ago when someone else asked very similar question.

Used Model S 2016.5 inquiry

Hello Tesla motor club forums, I was eyeing a used 2016.5 model s 75 without the air suspension or power trunk. It does have a power sunroof. I am mainly interested in the free unlimited supercharging. Is this tesla reliable? What are some things I should know about the car? Are there other...

teslamotorsclub.com

If you check for other posts I've made in the past 2 months you'll can find where I've posted graph of my apparent battery degradation over the time (about 8.5-9%) as well as typical supercharging speeds (I'd still see ability to hit 150kW peak rate and my overall time as supercharger was less than when the car was new).

Appreciate it. I’ve also heard about LDU failures on these performance AWD models, but another commenter on FaceBook mentioned that with the mileage, it’s probably been replaced. (Possibly more than once lol).

Supercharging isn’t a factor for me. I plan to trickle charge at 110V at home, and my work has a slow but usable 6.7kW ChargePoint charger. Slow, yes. But I’m there 8 hours a day so it’ll usually be at 80% by the time I leave to go home even if it’s near dead empty. And I’d think charging it that slowly will also extend the health of the battery. Longer trips, I have my trusty Toyota 4Runner, so no worries there.

 

[leocm]

that battery pack is probably the last revision of the 90 kWh series. Probably will hold up OK for you. How many prior owners does the car have? If it was never taken back by Tesla (after a lease or trade in), there’s a chance it has free unlimited supercharging.

2 Owners. First owner owned it for only 2 years, but drove a ton. I think they did like 25k/year. 2nd owner owned it the longest, about 5 years. No accidents and all the panels/paint look original to me. It does not have SC01 (FUSC). But like my response to the last comment, Supercharging isn’t a factor for me since I’ll charge at home & at work.

 

[leocm]

i have 9/2016 MX with v3, currently 98k mi, no issues
i think they solved all major issues by this time
fyi, most unreliable is 85kwh pack
if u look at high mileage fb club, plenty of cars with even higher miles with no issues
i'd get obd adapter n Scan My Tesla n just check to make sure battery has good values now (can't really predict any failures tho)

Ye the OBDII Adapter is something i’m considering too for battery health/cycles. But it sounds like the V3 is the most reliable of the 90KWh packs; albeit it doesn’t mean it’s bulletproof.

I’ve seen the north of 250k mileage MS cars out there, but it seems to be a mixed bag of ones that have the original drive train & battery, and ones that’ve had both the HV battery & drive units changed out multiple times. Seems the performance models tend to have the higher rear drive unit failures than the non performance models. There doesn’t seem to be a way to check if it’s been done without throwing the car on a lift. But during the test drive (and I drove it hard - with permission from the saleswoman) no weird grinding or whining noises. I drove a P85D about 4 months ago that did make some weird drivetrain noises when it was decelerating after hard acceleration, so I think I have an idea of what to listen for.

 

[livesmith]

Hello! Just wanted to get some thoughts on this. (I posted this on a Facebook group as well but have seen & driven it since I've posted it)

I’m looking at purchasing a 2016 Model S P90DL with about 130k miles on it. I've finally gotten a chance to drive and see the vehicle, but from the many many hours of reading I’ve done on it on TMC, it seems the 90 KWh battery seems to carry the highest failure rate of any of the packs the MS came with from that era.
I was able to verify with the battery sticker that it is a "V3" 90KWh battery pack. (P/N - 1088792-00-A with Serial T16H0059228) But based on the tag, it may be original to the car.
Car's build date is 08/2016 so it still has a few months of warranty left. The gauge cluster is showing the main pyro fuse does need to be replaced, but that's under warranty so I'm not too worried about that. Car has some paint chips, likely from a lot of highway driving, and it has some semi-worn (maybe around 50-60% tread life) Michelin tires with 2022 date code so it looks like a car that was cared for and it looks like it's in pretty good condition.

It’s a small dealer in CA and they’re asking $23.9k but it drives well and it’s optioned up exactly how I wanted it (Black over Black) so I’m gonna try to haggle down to $21-22k (it’s been on sale for over 2 months) and add on the tax credit to get it down to around $17-18k.
I am aware of the 3rd party options to have the pack replaced, but I’m trying to factor in that cost if that ends up being the case.

Is it worth going for it? Or is the mileage/battery being original a reason to steer clear of it?

Whether it's worth it is entirely up to you to decide(or in my case I call it gambling).
I don't consider yours high mileage. Last year I bought a 15 S85D with 306k miles.

Yes, the battery is the biggest ouch I know is coming. But from what I've seen there is not really any warning as to when the battery dies. I've seen reports of some failures 30-70k miles. And then mine is up to 346K miles and about the highest mileage I've seen still going...

I went with the non performance model to avoid the motor problems. So unless that rear motor on yours has been replaced very recently and ideally with the newest version then that's likely going to need replacement at some point.

Then there's the smaller more common things that are fairly likely to pop up. Some of what I've seen... Window regulator, door handles, suspension bushings, air compressor, headlights, steering joint, CV shafts...

If you can do work yourself and source parts and then a decent generic garage it's not necessarily that bad. But if you're just planning on calling Tesla for everything then definitely keep a decent flow of funds if needed...(Besides the bigger ones like the battery)

 

[brainhouston]

fyi, LDU issues should be a thing of the past with current coolant delete options
if u get a car, get a coolant delete done n it'll be a solid drive unit

 

[leocm]

Whether it's worth it is entirely up to you to decide(or in my case I call it gambling).
I don't consider yours high mileage. Last year I bought a 15 S85D with 306k miles.

Yes, the battery is the biggest ouch I know is coming. But from what I've seen there is not really any warning as to when the battery dies. I've seen reports of some failures 30-70k miles. And then mine is up to 346K miles and about the highest mileage I've seen still going...

I went with the non performance model to avoid the motor problems. So unless that rear motor on yours has been replaced very recently and ideally with the newest version then that's likely going to need replacement at some point.

Then there's the smaller more common things that are fairly likely to pop up. Some of what I've seen... Window regulator, door handles, suspension bushings, air compressor, headlights, steering joint, CV shafts...

If you can do work yourself and source parts and then a decent generic garage it's not necessarily that bad. But if you're just planning on calling Tesla for everything then definitely keep a decent flow of funds if needed...(Besides the bigger ones like the battery)

Totally understand. This is my first Tesla & EV in general, so naturally, I'm trying to gain the best purview of everything that's involved with buying a used one. And yea, you're right. "High mileage" is somewhat relative - to some, anything over 100k is "high mileage". But to others, it could just be stretching its legs. High mileage vehicles normally don't scare me as my 4Runner for example came with 163k mi when I bought it and it has under 300k miles on it now. But for EV's, this is all just very new to me haha.

I'm in SoCal, so I'm sure there's a lot of great third-party shops that can work on the ancillary issues. I did verify all the door handles, and the power liftgate work so I think I'm good there (for now). But there's a Tesla SC pretty close to my house so the really big things (or anything under the warranty) should be within reach, if needed.

fyi, LDU issues should be a thing of the past with current coolant delete options
if u get a car, get a coolant delete done n it'll be a solid drive unit

Yeah that's what I've been hearing as well. Better to catch it now before it becomes a very very pricey repair.

 

[PCMc]

@leocm - A couple of other things to maybe thing about regarding a car of this vintage.

Car was built with MCU1 main screen/infotainment processor. If you've not already, I'd try and confirm if it's been upgraded to MCU2. If you have access to the car, you can pull up the software page, select the more info link, and there will be a screen that shows you info about many of the subsystems. It will list the Infotainment processor. If it says NVidia Tegra is it MCU1. If it says Intel Atom then it is MCU2. Upgrade to MCU2 info is on Tesla's website, but would address any issues with potentially aging eMMC chip, but also give you much improved navigation response, ability to stream video in the theatre app, and a level of dashcam/sentry capability. It also includes replacement of both the main display and the dash display.

Look at the displays and if you see any signs of bubbles around the edges, this is an indication the adhesive has deteriorated and the gel layer under the glass is leaking out. Even if you can see the leak, it's going behind the dash and getting on something (likely electronics), which never sounds like a good situation to me. If there are leaks and it's still MCU1, this is good reason in my opinion ot go ahead with the MCU2 upgrade as both screens are included.

You didn't say anything whether the car might have the opening pano roof option. If so, then having the tracks cleaned and lubricated may be a good preventative step. I never had any issues with my pano roof, but it was cleaned/lubricated annually the first 50k miles of life as I'd bought the annual maintenance plan and this was included.

I know you're showing as Orange County location, so this might not be any concern, but Tesla did start to recommend periodic lubrication of the brake calipers in climates where high levels of road salt/chemicals were used. That might be another good preventative maintenance item.

Good luck with your purchase decision. My MS 90D was a solid car and I really struggled with the decision to get rid of it. Ultimately I fell victim to Tesla's offer to transfer FUSC over to a new car and took the leap to upgrade it. Many would argue that FUSC is more an emotional benefit than a hard financial one, but I'll be the first to say all of my decisions in life are not purely logical!

 

[leocm]

@leocm - A couple of other things to maybe thing about regarding a car of this vintage.

Car was built with MCU1 main screen/infotainment processor. If you've not already, I'd try and confirm if it's been upgraded to MCU2. If you have access to the car, you can pull up the software page, select the more info link, and there will be a screen that shows you info about many of the subsystems. It will list the Infotainment processor. If it says NVidia Tegra is it MCU1. If it says Intel Atom then it is MCU2. Upgrade to MCU2 info is on Tesla's website, but would address any issues with potentially aging eMMC chip, but also give you much improved navigation response, ability to stream video in the theatre app, and a level of dashcam/sentry capability. It also includes replacement of both the main display and the dash display.

Look at the displays and if you see any signs of bubbles around the edges, this is an indication the adhesive has deteriorated and the gel layer under the glass is leaking out. Even if you can see the leak, it's going behind the dash and getting on something (likely electronics), which never sounds like a good situation to me. If there are leaks and it's still MCU1, this is good reason in my opinion ot go ahead with the MCU2 upgrade as both screens are included.

You didn't say anything whether the car might have the opening pano roof option. If so, then having the tracks cleaned and lubricated may be a good preventative step. I never had any issues with my pano roof, but it was cleaned/lubricated annually the first 50k miles of life as I'd bought the annual maintenance plan and this was included.

I know you're showing as Orange County location, so this might not be any concern, but Tesla did start to recommend periodic lubrication of the brake calipers in climates where high levels of road salt/chemicals were used. That might be another good preventative maintenance item.

Good luck with your purchase decision. My MS 90D was a solid car and I really struggled with the decision to get rid of it. Ultimately I fell victim to Tesla's offer to transfer FUSC over to a new car and took the leap to upgrade it. Many would argue that FUSC is more an emotional benefit than a hard financial one, but I'll be the first to say all of my decisions in life are not purely logical!

Appreciate the insight! To answer your questions - the car does have MCU1. But it looks like the car was garaged for most of its life, so none of the screens are bubbling or yellowing right now. Not a huge rush for me to get that resolved yet, but I plan to upgrade to MCU2 as a reactive repair once the screens start failing or if both screens start having reliability issues beyond just the typical lag. But who knows. I’ve seen enough MCU1 cars that maybe the lag will just drive me up the wall and force me to upgrade it proactively. I’m guessing Tesla’s the only one that does the MCU2 upgrades? Or are there any good 3rd party shops that perform MCU2 upgrades? To my understanding, it’s actually most cost-effective to perform the upgrade with Tesla given the labor and parts.

This car does have the pano-glass roof and I did test it. Opens fine, but towards the closing, it closes just as quickly but i can see it rubbing on the tracks so it’s something that’ll need to be lubed and cleaned. This is something I plan to use occasionally (especially with the sunnier weather finally returning to SoCal) so I will plan to get the tracks and rollers cleaned and lubricated.

Regarding the brake calipers, yes, I live in Orange County, so we don’t know what snow and salt on roads are HAHA! Doesn’t apply to me as I don’t plan to drive this car in the snow at all.

As mentioned, overall, the car looks solid given its age, and it looks like the previous owner did care for the car well. I totally get you on the last part for it being an emotional decision - my annual mileage is on the upper echelon of 17–20k miles a year, so I could’ve gotten a boring Bolt or Prius that’s simply “efficient” to replace my current V8-powered sedan. Nothing wrong with either of those cars. But between efficiency and speed, I wanted it all so this was the best move in my eyes haha

 

[leocm]

Hey y'all, update, I did end up purchasing the car!

Drives great and really excited to be joining the Tesla fam! I have to say, the Ludicrous+ mode, really lives up to the name lol.
I'll post pictures as soon as I'm able to.

 

[NV Ray]

Congrats. Thanks for the update. How much after $4k tax credit?

 

[leocm]

Congrats. Thanks for the update. How much after $4k tax credit?

Sale price was $23k (he was a shrewd negotiator lol) so $19k plus taxes, licensing, etc. Time will tell if it was a great deal or not. I did verify HV Battery & Motor warranty are good until Sept 2024, so I have a couple months to hopefully get either of them to fail hahaha

 

[trayloader]

Yeah my P90D still pulls 120kw at the SC until I hit 50% SOC, then tapers off to 75kw. But never had an issue with that charging speed for long trips. And FUSC is nice, but 90% of the time I charge at level 2.

Sorry but I doubt it. No P90Ds EVER did this, heck even 100Ds seldomly report this
P90Ds normally are around 90-100kW @50%.

Can You do screenshots at various states?
Thank You

 

[PCMc]

Sorry but I doubt it. No P90Ds EVER did this, heck even 100Ds seldomly report this
P90Ds normally are around 90-100kW @50%.

Can You do screenshots at various states?
Thank You

I disagree. I had a mid-2016 build MS90D which I owned for 7.5 years. It would over 120 kW below 40% and I've seen it the ideal conditions hit 150kW. Here's a plot of several supercharging sessions in Q4 last year before I sold it. My total time to supercharge from say 20 or 30% to 70 or 80% would actually take less time after 7.5 years and 80k miles than when I first purchased it.

 

[MSJack]

Hello! Just wanted to get some thoughts on this. (I posted this on a Facebook group as well but have seen & driven it since I've posted it)

I’m looking at purchasing a 2016 Model S P90DL with about 130k miles on it. I've finally gotten a chance to drive and see the vehicle, but from the many many hours of reading I’ve done on it on TMC, it seems the 90 KWh battery seems to carry the highest failure rate of any of the packs the MS came with from that era.
I was able to verify with the battery sticker that it is a "V3" 90KWh battery pack. (P/N - 1088792-00-A with Serial T16H0059228) But based on the tag, it may be original to the car.
Car's build date is 08/2016 so it still has a few months of warranty left. The gauge cluster is showing the main pyro fuse does need to be replaced, but that's under warranty so I'm not too worried about that. Car has some paint chips, likely from a lot of highway driving, and it has some semi-worn (maybe around 50-60% tread life) Michelin tires with 2022 date code so it looks like a car that was cared for and it looks like it's in pretty good condition.

It’s a small dealer in CA and they’re asking $23.9k but it drives well and it’s optioned up exactly how I wanted it (Black over Black) so I’m gonna try to haggle down to $21-22k (it’s been on sale for over 2 months) and add on the tax credit to get it down to around $17-18k.
I am aware of the 3rd party options to have the pack replaced, but I’m trying to factor in that cost if that ends up being the case.

Is it worth going for it? Or is the mileage/battery being original a reason to steer clear of it?

In terms of the battery, You would want to see as a lot of early 90 packs suffered from early degradation and i would check with previous owner to ask about battery health/ and or degradation relating to the battery.

 

[Paul-K]

This weekend we're looking at a 2016 75D, looks like it was delivered late in 2016. Two owners. MCU 1. What is the expected cost for the MCU/screen upgrade? I think this one does not have air suspension. Two owners. Any advice or suggestions welcome!

 

[PCMc]

This weekend we're looking at a 2016 75D, looks like it was delivered late in 2016. Two owners. MCU 1. What is the expected cost for the MCU/screen upgrade? I think this one does not have air suspension. Two owners. Any advice or suggestions welcome!

Here is the link to Tesla's page with full details on the infotainment upgrade (a.k.a., MCU1 -> MCU2).

Infotainment Upgrade | Tesla Support

Upgrade your Infotainment system to access new features, and for a more advanced and smoother user experience.

www.tesla.com

My understanding the vehicle you describe is what's considered Autopilot Computer 2.0, so the current cost is listed as $2,250 plus applicable sales tax. You may want to review the document I linked above as to what that includes and doesn't include, like details around FM radio tuner, etc.