Maybe this has already been discussed somewhere but I was at the grocery today and saw the 2014 Porsche Panamera s. It looks incredibly similar to the model s! Was someone (Porsche) a bit jealous?
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Panamera s looks like rip off of tesla s!
- Thread starter Alysashley79
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- Model S
Don't know if it WAS discussed before, but the Panamera's been out in this current body style prior to the Model S launch... So, IMHO the Model S looks like the Panamera... Either way, I prefer to drive the S than burn gas with a Porsche.
I guess I never paid much attention before since I always drove well I won't say....anyhow my grey p85 s next to this old mans grey Panamera s. My tesla still looked better than his. Still was faster on the take off and oddly enough I waved at him as he pulled into the gas station to fuel up and I kept on going!
The Panamera was out long before the Model S, and I think they look quite different. Have both in my garage and from the back, nothing alike (and that's a good thing, since it takes quite a bit of getting used to the Panamera butt). The Model S back is a heck of a lot nicer looking and way more functional.
IMO, the Model S and the and the Aston Martin Rapide look way more alike, especially from the side.
IMO, the Model S and the and the Aston Martin Rapide look way more alike, especially from the side.
I'm assuming you're asking about the year of the Panamera? We have a 2013 Panamera, delivered in July of 2012 to coincide with baby. The 2014 Panamera facelift is subtle, in my opinion, though nice. Despite that, it doesn't really seem to change the butt view all that much.
Ended up getting the Model S since we were disappointed with the trunk space in the Panamera for long road trips. Once a stroller is in the trunk, half the Panamera trunk is gone, leaving little room for much else not baby-related. On the other hand, with the Model S, we probably bring TOO much stuff between the frunk and the trunk...
Ended up getting the Model S since we were disappointed with the trunk space in the Panamera for long road trips. Once a stroller is in the trunk, half the Panamera trunk is gone, leaving little room for much else not baby-related. On the other hand, with the Model S, we probably bring TOO much stuff between the frunk and the trunk...
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
ThosEM
Space Weatherman
SFOTurtle, I don't think it necessarily has to be a binary decision of Panamera versus the Model S. Each does have its place since they really aren't equivalent cars.
To answer your question about why one might even want to choose a Panamera, one word: handling. That's why we are fortunate enough to be able to keep both. (That and it would be hard to justify taking a bath selling the Panamera for another Model S after only a little over a year and a half!). Okay, fine, perhaps a second word: options.
Handling: the P85 makes the V6 Panamera feel dog slow, especially in highway passing power. The road-holding and planted feeling of a Panamera, and the far more laterally supportive (and ventilated seats) are a completely different feeling entirely when cornering. The P85+ loaners we've driven bring the handling closer, but still doesn't solve the problem of the lack of bolstering in the seats when cornering. When I'm sliding in the seat, it doesn't give me a particularly confident feeling, even if the car itself is actually stable.
Options: when you consider that we've spent plenty to go aftermarket for things that we were able to order on the Panamera (blind-spot sensors, parking sensors), you start to see them simply as very different cars that both just happen to have a hatchback. Even with our aftermarket modifications to our P85, we still miss some things that aren't even possible yet, even aftermarket, on our S: ventilated seats, adequate seat side-bolstering, window shades, adaptive cruise control. Precooling the car is great, but doesn't quite replace seat ventilation on longer trips.
Granted our P85 is "older" from last March, well before the + option was even available and long before all the new cars have the stiffer bushings of the P85+. That plus our S is purposely riding on 19" wheels (though our Panamera also has 19" wheels, but a much wider, staggered setup). It's been great following Lolachamp's efforts at improving the handling on the Model S, and we certainly hope to go down a similar road, but it takes time, effort, and money. So until Tesla is able to steal all the suspension and handling experts from Porsche and combine the best of both, we'll keep one of each and consider ourselves quite fortunate (even if it's only a 6 cylinder Panny, which has similar fuel economy to my old, slower, and way less fun 1999 Japanese sedan!).
We love both cars, but neither is perfect. Even so, we do consistently choose to drive the S over the Panamera (in the 10 months we've had the P85, we've put nearly 15,000 miles on it, but in the same time frame only added about 2,000 on the Panamera). Part of that preference is environmental (since our roof solar arrays cover nearly 100% of our car and home energy use on average), but the other part is also the practicality and safety for baby (now toddler) transport. Our Panamera has no safety rating by the NHTSA, while we all know the safety rating of the S.
So until we can combine the best of both vehicles (and get a bigger roof for even more PV arrays and perhaps save up some more), we'll stick to having one of each. That being said, once it's time to get another car, sorry Porsche, it'll most likely be another Tesla...
To answer your question about why one might even want to choose a Panamera, one word: handling. That's why we are fortunate enough to be able to keep both. (That and it would be hard to justify taking a bath selling the Panamera for another Model S after only a little over a year and a half!). Okay, fine, perhaps a second word: options.
Handling: the P85 makes the V6 Panamera feel dog slow, especially in highway passing power. The road-holding and planted feeling of a Panamera, and the far more laterally supportive (and ventilated seats) are a completely different feeling entirely when cornering. The P85+ loaners we've driven bring the handling closer, but still doesn't solve the problem of the lack of bolstering in the seats when cornering. When I'm sliding in the seat, it doesn't give me a particularly confident feeling, even if the car itself is actually stable.
Options: when you consider that we've spent plenty to go aftermarket for things that we were able to order on the Panamera (blind-spot sensors, parking sensors), you start to see them simply as very different cars that both just happen to have a hatchback. Even with our aftermarket modifications to our P85, we still miss some things that aren't even possible yet, even aftermarket, on our S: ventilated seats, adequate seat side-bolstering, window shades, adaptive cruise control. Precooling the car is great, but doesn't quite replace seat ventilation on longer trips.
Granted our P85 is "older" from last March, well before the + option was even available and long before all the new cars have the stiffer bushings of the P85+. That plus our S is purposely riding on 19" wheels (though our Panamera also has 19" wheels, but a much wider, staggered setup). It's been great following Lolachamp's efforts at improving the handling on the Model S, and we certainly hope to go down a similar road, but it takes time, effort, and money. So until Tesla is able to steal all the suspension and handling experts from Porsche and combine the best of both, we'll keep one of each and consider ourselves quite fortunate (even if it's only a 6 cylinder Panny, which has similar fuel economy to my old, slower, and way less fun 1999 Japanese sedan!).
We love both cars, but neither is perfect. Even so, we do consistently choose to drive the S over the Panamera (in the 10 months we've had the P85, we've put nearly 15,000 miles on it, but in the same time frame only added about 2,000 on the Panamera). Part of that preference is environmental (since our roof solar arrays cover nearly 100% of our car and home energy use on average), but the other part is also the practicality and safety for baby (now toddler) transport. Our Panamera has no safety rating by the NHTSA, while we all know the safety rating of the S.
So until we can combine the best of both vehicles (and get a bigger roof for even more PV arrays and perhaps save up some more), we'll stick to having one of each. That being said, once it's time to get another car, sorry Porsche, it'll most likely be another Tesla...
I think you generally made my point. Sure, there are things like window shades and seats that people subjectively can say are better or worse with other makes. Lack of parking sensors (before recently) or adaptive cruise control? Even more subjective (I wouldn't even think about ordering either.) OTOH, there are things like the touchscreen that are superior on the MS. Are there some folks who would buy the MS over the Panamera based on the touchscreen alone? Perhaps a few. Just like there may be a few folks who would decide to buy the Panamera because it had adaptive cruise control or better (subjectively) seats.
Yes, I agree, neither car is absolutely perfect. But from a big picture standpoint -- I would think that the vast, vast majority of people who are looking at a Panamera are looking for a fast car that handles well and has space like a sedan (otherwise why not just buy the 911). And with these big picture points in mind, the Tesla P85+ has superior performance and has tons of functional space, whereas the Panamera utterly fails at the latter (fails as in it required nearly 10 minutes and serious tetris skills to stuff two small rollerboards in the trunk and get the hatch to close). And that is probably why in Northern California anyway (where almost everyone is familiar with the MS), the numbers of new MS we see are expanding rapidly and we see relatively few new Panameras.
I think I'm getting confused here. I'm not sure I understand why this has gone from a discussion about why one anyone might even choose to have a Panamera to a seemingly generalized argument about why anyone would chose anything other than Model S? If I am misreading your tone, I apologize.
I was simply providing an opinion (hoping that it was balanced) of our family would choose to have a Panamera (your question) AND a Model S. I didn't expect hostility, since I'm fairly certain that we both share warmth toward Tesla, and perhaps you are also a Tesla shareholder like us. I have certainly defended Tesla against the naysayers and the skeptics, and even converted some of them by being able to see their viewpoint. Sadly, I have only sold 2 people on Tesla who have actually made reservationss. On the other hand, I also concluded with some people that their use cases might not yet be right for ANY electric vehicle. I will not begrudge someone who requires routine and serious towing capability, or who has a long-distance relationship and routinely needs drive where the charging infrastructure poor and weekends are already too short. Though use cases don't match mine, but I certainly can't devalue them when those use cases are important to those two individuals.
Each car has its pluses and minuses, both objective and subjective. The relative importance and weight of those pluses and minuses will be dependent on the values of the individual. Sometimes individuals with similar requirements might weight them differently. Or some might simply have different requirements. My point is that it's important to recognize that those differences are valid, whether they fit in with anyone else's opinions, otherwise the conversation descends into pointlessness.
My P85 clearly accelerates like nothing else I own, has a higher safety rating of anything I own, has the most usable cargo space of any vehicle I own, and has the lowest carbon footprint of any vehicle I own especially when I include my home solar arrays. There is no objective question about that. On the other hand, there are times when I want what the Model S cannot provide me.
My Panamera handles/corners far better than my P85, both subjectively and objectively. Its seats hold me in place during cornering maneuvers better. I'd replace the Model S seats, but I've sadly watched threads about aftermarket seat replacements go dead. I also personally place a high subjective value on some of the additional features I ordered with the Panamera. Others might not hold those features to a similarly high value, but that's okay, since they aren't the ones who bought the car; those are individual choices and their preferences and are just as valid for their purchases. As an analogy, people may have different religious views or child-rearing practices. Assuming no one is actually hurting others, we generally co-exist and at least pretend to accept or understand different religious or child-rearing practices.
One might argue objectively about the carbon footprint of the ICE, and I have no problem admitting that as an ICE, the Panamera V6s carbon footprint is higher than our P85. On the other hand, I subjectively feel that with our contributions towards nearly neutralizing our family's carbon footprint, having some occasional fun is perhaps okay; I can't afford to trade in the Panamera for another Model S or buy a bigger house with a bigger roof for even more solar panels. For that, I am genuinely sorry.
But you posed, perhaps rhetorically, the question was why anyone might choose a Panamera over a Model S. I simply provided my rationale, hopefully without much judgment, while perhaps mistakenly answering a rhetorical question and somehow inciting anger.
Regardless, I will continue to enjoy my choices and drive my vehicles. I will also continue rooting for and advocating for the continued success of Tesla and of a future cleaner world. Open-minded discussion, I believe, will be the key to help convert others who are closed-minded to these topics that are near and dear to our hearts. There are enough haters out there, that we don't need closed-minded infighting amongst ourselves.
I was simply providing an opinion (hoping that it was balanced) of our family would choose to have a Panamera (your question) AND a Model S. I didn't expect hostility, since I'm fairly certain that we both share warmth toward Tesla, and perhaps you are also a Tesla shareholder like us. I have certainly defended Tesla against the naysayers and the skeptics, and even converted some of them by being able to see their viewpoint. Sadly, I have only sold 2 people on Tesla who have actually made reservationss. On the other hand, I also concluded with some people that their use cases might not yet be right for ANY electric vehicle. I will not begrudge someone who requires routine and serious towing capability, or who has a long-distance relationship and routinely needs drive where the charging infrastructure poor and weekends are already too short. Though use cases don't match mine, but I certainly can't devalue them when those use cases are important to those two individuals.
Each car has its pluses and minuses, both objective and subjective. The relative importance and weight of those pluses and minuses will be dependent on the values of the individual. Sometimes individuals with similar requirements might weight them differently. Or some might simply have different requirements. My point is that it's important to recognize that those differences are valid, whether they fit in with anyone else's opinions, otherwise the conversation descends into pointlessness.
My P85 clearly accelerates like nothing else I own, has a higher safety rating of anything I own, has the most usable cargo space of any vehicle I own, and has the lowest carbon footprint of any vehicle I own especially when I include my home solar arrays. There is no objective question about that. On the other hand, there are times when I want what the Model S cannot provide me.
My Panamera handles/corners far better than my P85, both subjectively and objectively. Its seats hold me in place during cornering maneuvers better. I'd replace the Model S seats, but I've sadly watched threads about aftermarket seat replacements go dead. I also personally place a high subjective value on some of the additional features I ordered with the Panamera. Others might not hold those features to a similarly high value, but that's okay, since they aren't the ones who bought the car; those are individual choices and their preferences and are just as valid for their purchases. As an analogy, people may have different religious views or child-rearing practices. Assuming no one is actually hurting others, we generally co-exist and at least pretend to accept or understand different religious or child-rearing practices.
One might argue objectively about the carbon footprint of the ICE, and I have no problem admitting that as an ICE, the Panamera V6s carbon footprint is higher than our P85. On the other hand, I subjectively feel that with our contributions towards nearly neutralizing our family's carbon footprint, having some occasional fun is perhaps okay; I can't afford to trade in the Panamera for another Model S or buy a bigger house with a bigger roof for even more solar panels. For that, I am genuinely sorry.
But you posed, perhaps rhetorically, the question was why anyone might choose a Panamera over a Model S. I simply provided my rationale, hopefully without much judgment, while perhaps mistakenly answering a rhetorical question and somehow inciting anger.
Regardless, I will continue to enjoy my choices and drive my vehicles. I will also continue rooting for and advocating for the continued success of Tesla and of a future cleaner world. Open-minded discussion, I believe, will be the key to help convert others who are closed-minded to these topics that are near and dear to our hearts. There are enough haters out there, that we don't need closed-minded infighting amongst ourselves.
EXOTIC1
Member
The Panamera TURBO is the best handling/fastest overall sedan on the planet 3.6 0-60
will cost you 50k more than P85 just have to decide if it's worth it.
will cost you 50k more than P85 just have to decide if it's worth it.
If you don't understand why a Panamera is a compelling car you most likely have not driven one on the limit. Perhaps a Tesla can win a numbers comparison over lower versions of the Panamera, but it certainly does not have the feel and handling of the Porsche. The Panamera Turbo and Turbo S will also blow the doors of a Model S P85+. We bought a Model S P85+, not a Panamera, M5 or E63, but that's because we wanted a carpool lane sticker in CA and we were interested in trying and supporting new tech. Am I more excited to jump in the Model S, than my M3, M6 or even my old GTi? No. Does it accelerate faster than all of those cars? Yes, but that's not always what makes a car enjoyable. I understand this is a Tesla forum and everyone is psyched about Teslas but there's room for balance of perspective especially coming from people who own and drive the competing cars.
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