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Performance Model 3: Excited or Disappointed?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by GTKAZ, May 20, 2018.

  1. jerjozwik

    jerjozwik Active Member

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    at my last visit to auto club speedway i noticed they had an array of trailer based, solar powered DC chargers in a parking lot. my guess was at least 10, maybe 15 of them.
     
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  2. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Well-Known Member

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    We don't know how the car will transfer torque from side to side yet. If they don't use an upgraded differential in the rear it's hard to see how the P is going to compete with other cars in its class. Brake based approaches like the standard 3 has have proven to be pretty poor at the track. They throw away power to heat the brakes, not optimal for performance.
     
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  3. Jaguar

    Jaguar Member

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    I needed 0-60 in 3.2 sec. to get to work on time, but I'll settle for 3.5. So, I'm happy.
     
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  4. silentsnow31802

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    I was hoping for 3.2 at a 80K out the door (Includes taxes and all that BS).
     
  5. TheLocNar

    TheLocNar Member

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    If there are no brake and suspension upgrades, consider me very disappointed. While 3.5 seconds is very fast, if you don’t have any of the supporting mods to go with it, it’s just meaningless to me.

    My current car, a 2010 Infiniti G37xS sedan with tons of aftermarket parts is faster than most anything I come across on the street. And that’s a 5 second 0-60 car.

    I hope we get further word of upgraded brakes and suspension. It would make the price easier to swallow.
     
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  6. GatorGuy

    GatorGuy Member

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    I would be surprised if the real 0to60 time is 3.5 seconds. I would expect atleast 3.2. I am satisfied with that performance. I don't care about brakes or suspension. They are easily modifiable by aftermarket parts for much higher quality.

    I do question Tesla's choice in using an induction motor and if it'll have any cooling issues on the track.

    If Elon really wants this car to be quicker around a track than a M3 or the Mission E then I hope they put some real effort into the handling of the car.
     
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  7. TheLocNar

    TheLocNar Member

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    Which would mean they need suspension and brake upgrades as part of the P package. If not, then ouch.

    There may be better aftermarket options eventually, but you won’t have the warranty.
     
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  8. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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    Tesla CEO Elon Musk ties base Model 3 availability to company profitability

    upload_2018-5-21_20-52-4.png
     
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  9. TheLocNar

    TheLocNar Member

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    Not sure how that gives us any info on brake/suspension upgrades?
     
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  10. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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    Back on Topic ... Performance Model 3: Excited or Disappointed? :cool:
     
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  11. Thomas Edison

    Thomas Edison Active Member

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    Neutral
     
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  12. TheLocNar

    TheLocNar Member

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    I already answered this. :)

    Still holding my spot in line until I’m able to configure. Who knows what may change by then.
     
  13. ryanjm

    ryanjm Tesla Podcast Host

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    You CAN order the Performance with 18" Aero wheels, so I suspect that *if* brakes are larger (I don't know, but I don't think so because they'd have probably advertised that), they fit with the 18's.
     
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  14. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Well-Known Member

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    The fact that the calipers are not painted red sort of implies that they're the same brakes as the LR. Elon said in a tweet today that they're not red to reduce complexity. If they were a separate part, how would painting them red add complexity? They're not manufactured by Tesla.
    I wish he hadn't said that the P would compete with any car in its class on the track. He's setting Tesla up for major embarrassment. It seems like most customers are fine with just having super fast 0-60 times.
     
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  15. zer0cool

    zer0cool Member

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    0-60 alone doesn't have much to do with track performance since you only do 0-60 once on track, at the start. Braking, suspension/handling and acceleration at speed are much more important factors. The Model 3 looks to be weak on braking and suspension would need significant improvements to handle well on track; acceleration at speed has never been a strong suit for EVs.

    I doubt better performance compared to BMW M3 on a reasonably lengthy track or over several laps. I mean I wish it does, but just doubt it until I see it.
     
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  16. Ben D

    Ben D Member

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    I wonder, when Elon says 15% faster than a M3 BMW, that is a very specific figure. I think to be so specific they have track tested their development hack performance model 3s against a BMW M3 and found that either overall lap time is 15% faster (which is a huge difference), or else some other metric (e.g. mid corner speed, terminal speed down the straight ?) is 15 % faster. Or else the only track he is talking about is the drag strip, where I fully believe 15% faster than an M3 is on the cards based on the published 0-60 figures......
     
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  17. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Well-Known Member

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    He's talking about a drag strip. 15% faster on a race track would be mind blowingly good. To put it in perspective in this test a Ferrari 488 was only 18% faster than a Mazda Miata.
    Best Driver’s Lap: Slot Car Seca - Motor Trend

    Also to keep it in perspective a Model S is slower than a stock Mazda Miata around Laguna Seca. Tesla has a long way to go before it can compete in that realm.
    Ferrari 488 1:31.68
    BMW M4 GTS 1:37.66
    Mazda Miata 1:51.43
    Model S (Refuel 2017) 1:52.43 (I'm guessing this was probably not on stock tires)
     
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  18. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    Your guess on the price comparison of Model 3 vs Mission E?
    "Testing" covers a very wide range of things. Just what things might you think Porsche tests more/longer than Tesla Model 3?

    thanks for your thoughts.
     
  19. seattlite2004

    seattlite2004 Active Member

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    At nürburgring...brakes....probably....hhhhh. But seriously....prob getting data to tune PASM, springs, 4 wheel steering, brakes, torque vectoring. In cold weather...prob getting additional data now with lower temps and friction.
     
  20. DR61

    DR61 Member

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    Interesting, but I don't buy your conclusion. Unless equal tire type and especially driver experience and skill are taken into account, these numbers mean little. Miatas are perhaps the most widely raced production cars in the world, and at Laguna hundreds of highly experienced racers have driven Miatas in very intense competition. A relatively much smaller number of drivers of unknown experience and skill, with unknown tire type, driving in a few Refuel events can't be compared to Miata stock competition records.
     

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