Performance Model 3 is too cheap - about to drop some truth bombs.

[Uncle Paul]

While I agree that the size of the Model 3 will make it more nimble and work better in crowded urban areas, many will make the case that the S and X are far better long distance comfort cruisers, with more spacious accomodations and much better cargo and passenger capacities.

For some strange reason, every time someone posts that the Model 3 is far superior to the S, I always flash over to that picture of the Pope arriving at some event in the tiny back seat of a little Fiat.

Model 3 stands on it's own. It is a great car with a compelling value proposition, but it appeals to a different group than the S. Neither is better or worse...just a different tool for a different job.

 

[MXWing]

The amount of ignorance blows my mind.

Just because a screw cost one half of one cent to manufacture, the store should be selling a 10 pack of screws for 6 cents? We want them to make money but not too much money right?

There is a huge premium just for performance and that's the way it is. The Model 3 P is cheap for what it is.

335i vs M3: Is the M3 Really Worth It? <-- most cases, the M3 is not worth it. I will take a PM3 over the BMW M3.

 

[GatorGuy]

The amount of ignorance blows my mind.

Just because a screw cost one half of one cent to manufacture, the store should be selling a 10 pack of screws for 6 cents? We want them to make money but not too much money right?

There is a huge premium just for performance and that's the way it is. The Model 3 P is cheap for what it is.

335i vs M3: Is the M3 Really Worth It? <-- most cases, the M3 is not worth it. I will take a PM3 over the BMW M3.

People that don't value performance don't understand the costs associated with it. I would agree the 3-PD cost is low if the real world acceleration times clock it closer to 3s which we would expect from Tesla's history.

 

[adaptabl]

The 3 is more like a Chevy Cruise. The S is a much higher quality car.

 

[MXWing]

People that don't value performance don't understand the costs associated with it. I would agree the 3-PD cost is low if the real world acceleration times clock it closer to 3s which we would expect from Tesla's history.

That's the thing - it's not understanding the costs of performance but ignorance to the extreme in how businesses are run.

The general thesis going on is "I don't see $20K worth of parts" not $20K of performance or $20K of value.

Tesla sells the P3D for what they can sell it for because -capitalism-.

Though since it's also capitalism, Elon can't even sleep on a decent couch because they burn so much money bringing a product to market. And you still have people crying about what they are paying for and not caring if Tesla will be around to service their purchases.

 

[chickensworth]

That's the thing - it's not understanding the costs of performance but ignorance to the extreme in how businesses are run.

The general thesis going on is "I don't see $20K worth of parts" not $20K of performance or $20K of value.

Tesla sells the P3D for what they can sell it for because -capitalism-.

Though since it's also capitalism, Elon can't even sleep on a decent couch because they burn so much money bringing a product to market. And you still have people crying about what they are paying for and not caring if Tesla will be around to service their purchases.

my ignorance is getting rek'd... too much shrapnel from all dem truth bombs being dropped by OP.

of course there's a premium for performance... the question is, how much performance are you actually buying for your dollar? All things being equal from the LR to P except for acceleration, we know it's going to be a turd relative to the competition and will get eaten alive at the track unless there are tweaks to the suspension, rubber and brakes.

 

[lotusland]

I don't think that there is any ignorance here, instead a few of us are asking what exactly is included in the P price. Elon's tweet implied more than just a spoiler and different tires, but other indications seem to be that those are the only differences. Those things don't tie up. I had firm plans to order the P, but I won't if those are the only differences. There are many reasons for that though, not just pricing. For one, I believe that a car that has the power to be driven hard needs the right brakes and suspension. I don't want the modern equivalent of a muscle car. Also, if the only differences are ones added after assembly -- like tires and the spoiler -- then it is likely that AWD buyers will get a P upgrade option in the future, and it is not likely that it will cost $24k. And finally, I want to encourage Tesla to make this a proper performance car by only purchasing it when I know that it will be one.

 

[MXWing]

This thread has aged well.

I set a provocative tone sometimes for entertainment value while informing but no match for the champ @timk225.

The crux and point of the thread was validated.

The base Model S looks very uncomfortable when positioned next to the Model 3.

This was before the 5K price drop on the highest end Model 3 relative to the S.

Glad to see Tesla starting to create some product differentiation.

It really does make sense for the S and X to be the flagship models but they actually have been behind the 3 for two years which is head scratching.

Will chalk that up to "production hell".

 

[TANGO SUKKA]

agree. p3d > base S 99% of the time

 

[Lifeinabox]

Especially now that the base S starts at $94k.

 

[MXWing]

Especially now that the base S starts at $94k.

A base S should also have sub 3.3 0-60 and a lot of other things for the 94K price.

 

[Lifeinabox]

A base S should also have sub 3.3 0-60 and a lot of other things for the 94K price.

Why? The regular 5 series doesn’t need to outrun the M3 to sell. Other things for sure.

 

[MXWing]

Why? The regular 5 series doesn’t need to outrun the M3 to sell. Other things for sure.

94K base is a lot for a car. Yes, other things can be done and should be done to increase the value proposition other than speed alone.

I would recommend Tesla shoots for at least 3.2 so psychologically, the big spendy S buyer is not compromising on a car that runs 6 digits upfront.

 

[chickensworth]

This thread has aged well.

I set a provocative tone sometimes for entertainment value while informing but no match for the champ @timk225.

The crux and point of the thread was validated.

The base Model S looks very uncomfortable when positioned next to the Model 3.

This was before the 5K price drop on the highest end Model 3 relative to the S.

Glad to see Tesla starting to create some product differentiation.

It really does make sense for the S and X to be the flagship models but they actually have been behind the 3 for two years which is head scratching.

Will chalk that up to "production hell".

differentiation is key... the S platform is bigger and heavier, a natural fit for making it a luxury grand tourer while the 3 will always be more spritely and a 'drivers' car. Think C class vs S class... 3 series vs 7 series etc... completely different missions and price points. When introduced, the Model S needed to appeal to a very wide audience, but now with more models, hopefully each platform can play to it's natural strengths.

 

[Lifeinabox]

94K base is a lot for a car. Yes, other things can be done and should be done to increase the value proposition other than speed alone.

I would recommend Tesla shoots for at least 3.2 so psychologically, the big spendy S buyer is not compromising on a car that runs 6 digits upfront.

The price will undoubtedly drop back down. The removal of the “base” model is only temporary to realign the offerings.

 

[wenkan]

Yes it's too cheap compared to BMW M3, C63AMG, 718 Cayman GTS and a big bunch of "performance" cars barely reaching 0-60 in about 4 seconds.