Performance not getting 310 miles promised

[Jeff Hudson]

For calculation purposes who can tell me how many usable kW's are in the Model 3 Performance battery.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

For calculation purposes who can tell me how many usable kW's are in the Model 3 Performance battery.

It's up for debate, but about 75kWh. Realistically, you can go about 6 miles after it reads zero - source: Elon Musk - (not at very high freeway speeds), so there may be as many as 77kWh available. And if you look at the calculations online and numbers of cells in the battery, it works out to something like 78kWh. Most people just use 75kWh for rough calculations; that's kind of the nominal amount. Though Tesla does not talk about it, it is in the Model 3 Parts Catalog, nominally at 75kWh.

I was just going to be pedantic about kW vs. kWh, but @Feathermerchan chimed in and spared me the trouble!

 

[Feathermerchan]

Power is measured in kW.
Energy is measured in kWh.

 

[Jeff Hudson]

It's up for debate, but about 75kWh. Realistically, you can go about 6 miles after it reads zero - source: Elon Musk - (not at very high freeway speeds), so there may be as many as 77kWh available. And if you look at the calculations online and numbers of cells in the battery, it works out to something like 78kWh.

So I plan to try traversing the I-65 Interstate between the Athens, AL Supercharger and stretching the mileage to the Greenville, AL Supercharger 223 miles away without stopping at the inconvenient Birmingham Supercharger. What does the community think I should hold my max speed under? The speed limit varies between 60 mph and 70 mph which is typical for an Interstate highway.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So I plan to try traversing the I-65 Interstate between the Athens, AL Supercharger and stretching the mileage to the Greenville, AL Supercharger 223 miles away without stopping at the inconvenient Birmingham Supercharger. What does the community think I should hold my max speed under?

You have a Model 3 Performance. Assuming: Fully charged, stock 20" wheels and tires, good weather, no significant heating of the cabin, and only modest AC use, just drive as fast as possible without getting a ticket. You'll make it fine with the PS4S tires. Realistically you do not have to be fully charged to make this trip if conditions are good even with the PS4S tires.

Look at the Trip planner on the energy screen second tab; if you plug in a destination in the nav first, it will provide you with real time updates of your expected remaining charge level at your destination. If it goes below zero, slow down! You want to arrive at Superchargers with close to minimum charge. Be sure to plug in the destination as the Supercharger in the nav, so your battery will be prepped upon arrival.

This should minimize your total travel and charge time. With the new elevated charge rates the optimal speed might be in excess of 90mph now (this assumes optimal Supercharger positioning) (but don't do that in this case - you probably won't make the 223 miles at that speed).

 

[astrowunder]

Look at the Trip planner

or better yet, a better route planner

 

[Jeff Hudson]

Look at the Trip planner on the energy screen second tab; if you plug in a destination in the nav first, it will provide you with real time updates of your expected remaining charge level at your destination. If it goes below zero, slow down!

Thanks for that tip about using the energy screen. Does skipping a Supercharger throw off the calculated prediction? And yes I do have the stock 20" Performance wheels with the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 235/35ZR20 (92Y) XL tires.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Thanks for that tip about using the energy screen. Does skipping a Supercharger throw off the calculated prediction? And yes I do have the stock 20" Performance wheels with the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 235/35ZR20 (92Y) XL tires.

Not as far as I know. Just program in the destination and look at the screen and see what it does. If you have to hit a Supercharger it might tell you, but honestly I haven't used it a lot for long trips yet, so the ins and outs I don't know.

Here is ABetterRoutePlanner. It really wanted to hit the Birmingham Supercharger, so I had to reduce the battery degradation (to 3% I think) and adjust the before and after charge level. You can make it without stopping at Birmingham, for sure, if you drive 65mph.
Realistically, if there is some traffic to draft mildly off of, you won't have any problem at all with the assumptions above. Do note that everything changes if it is raining, or windy, cold, or anything like that.

Make sure your tire pressures are set to 45PSI (cold) before the trip.

I think it is possibly slightly pessimistic if conditions are ideal with mild drafting (meaning a safe following distance), but here it is:

A Better Routeplanner

This Routeplanner is just a guide. I would just use the energy screen in the car myself, as it is based on what YOUR car is doing. As I said, you may do better than Routeplanner thinks (or worse if conditions are bad!). I think you very likely can go faster than 65mph, as fast basically as you want without catching attention of the local constabulary.

EDIT: Do report back with the stats after you do this trip! Would be good to know how the P3D+ does now that conditions are more mild.

 

[SammichLover]

Thanks for that tip about using the energy screen. Does skipping a Supercharger throw off the calculated prediction?

What do you mean by this? Can you describe what you're talking about in more detail because I don't understand the question?

Oh, and beyond just waiting for the battery on arrive % to drop to 0 I highly recommend you watch to see if it is dropping at all.

If for example you drive 20 miles and it has dropped from 10% to 8% and you have a 150 miles to go you need to be slowing down a bit now, or get on CC with a 4 or 5 follow distance from a vehicle in front of you. If you wait until it reaches 0%, which will only be another 80 miles or so, you'll need to slow down a lot more and maybe not make it at all.

Also, if NAV is projecting you'll have issues at your current speed it will throw up a little yellow warning at the top of your turn by turn list. It can do that long before the SOC % remaining on arrival prediction reaches 0%. PAY HEED TO THAT YELLOW WARNING! You can do that by following its speed directions to the letter, or you can do it by drafting on other vehicles as per above, or if you're doing something with HVAC that you can live without then turn that off. But treat that yellow warning message as knowing what it is talking about, and adjust until it goes away.


<edit> One more tip. At the end of charging, after disconnecting, your car will usually spend a bit of time and energy shedding heat from the battery pack using the "Supercan" (the A/C compressor, that also is used to cool your cabin). This shedding of heat seems to use enough energy to throw the initial Nav prediction off by about 2% SOC. So subtract at least 2-3% from the SOC prediction before you disconnect from the SC or you're start out deep in the hole. In cold weather Nav isn't as good at predicting, either, it underestimates fairly consistently vs outside temps. So some extra buffer is important. Even in good weather I don't leave without 12% estimated remaining.

 

[Zoglog]

All I can say is I use 100+ more kwh on my model 3 p than my wife's rwd one

 

[Jeff Hudson]

What do you mean by this? Can you describe what you're talking about in more detail because I don't understand the question?

My understanding of Tesla's GPS routing software is that it is always aware of the locations of their Superchargers. I suppose I was thinking the energy graph may not be as well integrated with deciphering a planned GPS route without stopping at an available Supercharger.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

If for example you drive 20 miles and it has dropped from 10% to 8% and you have a 150 miles to go you need to be slowing down a bit now, or get on CC with a 4 or 5 follow distance from a vehicle in front of you.

Really? I have no idea, but I assumed it would extrapolate from your past 20 miles of driving behavior, all the way to your destination...so if it updated to 8% it would kind of stay there, if you kept the same driving behavior. The one time this was relevant to me and I used it, I kind of felt like it worked that way. But it was just one time...no real experience.

I suppose I was thinking the energy graph may not be as well integrated with deciphering a planned GPS route without stopping at an available Supercharger.

Others who know can comment, but I assume the Nav will route you to a Supercharger only if it thinks you MUST Supercharge to make it to your destination. So plugging in the destination in advance (without your full charge) and seeing what it tells you as a test, might not give you the same results as it would when you fully charge your battery to 100% just before you leave.

I am sure if you can get it to plan a route without a Supercharger stop (except at the destination), and it says you will make it, and it continues to say you will make it as you drive there, you will be fine. If it gets worried, it'll add a Supercharger stop. (Personally if it just adds it in the middle of the drive when it previously did not need to stop, I would just ignore it, slow down and drive more conservatively as @SammichLover says.)

 

[SammichLover]

My understanding of Tesla's GPS routing software is that it is always aware of the locations of their Superchargers. I suppose I was thinking the energy graph may not be as well integrated with deciphering a planned GPS route without stopping at an available Supercharger.

Ah. No, it is periodically redoing the calculations while you are on route. Not sure of the exact frequency but about every minute, or maybe less. So it can suddenly on route change its recommendation of whether or not to skip SC, or it'll even send you sideways to a closer SC if there isn't one between you and your intended destination SC and it estimates you won't make it directly to the destination SC without a stopover.

 

[StealthP3D]

All I can say is I use 100+ more kwh on my model 3 p than my wife's rwd one

I'm impressed! But I don't think you mean that (at least not without specifying a distance). Maybe you meant to convey you use 100 more wh/mile?

When we drive our LR RWD and Stealth Performance in a similar manner the difference is less than half of that. The Aero wheels and Michelin Primacy tires really do make a big difference.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I'm impressed! But I don't think you mean that (at least not without specifying a distance). Maybe you meant to convey you use 100 more wh/mile?

When we drive our LR RWD and Stealth Performance in a similar manner the difference is less than half of that. The Aero wheels and Michelin Primacy tires really do make a big difference.

Story checks out. It's quite easy to get ~200Wh/mi in the LR RWD and quite easy to get ~300Wh/mi with the P3D+.

 

[SammichLover]

Really? I have no idea, but I assumed it would extrapolate from your past 20 miles of driving behavior, all the way to your destination...so if it updated to 8% it would kind of stay there, if you kept the same driving behavior. The one time this was relevant to me and I used it, I kind of felt like it worked that way. But it was just one time...no real experience.

It tries but if it is off due to outside temp bias it has, or such, this is the way you can compensate for that. Doing it this way you can dial in within +/- 1% or so over a 200 mile leg. That's kinda on the edge to travel like that, and I understand fully not everyone wants to go there, but it works.

Just, you know, use it to dial into 10% arrival instead 1% arrival if you don't have a good drug plan to cover the Xanax.

 

[StealthP3D]

Story checks out. It's quite easy to get ~200Wh/mi in the LR RWD and quite easy to get ~300Wh/mi with the P3D+.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the reported 100 kWh more. I simply guessed that he meant to say 100 wh/mile more.

 

[Jeff Hudson]

So plugging in the destination in advance (without your full charge) and seeing what it tells you as a test, might not give you the same results as it would when you fully charge your battery to 100% just before you leave.

I fully expect that even with a full charge the Tesla GPS routing software will tell me to stop in Birmingham since the full distance will drop the reserve below some preprogrammed GPS battery "safe arrival" level. If so, this means I will have to willfully skip Birmingham despite the Tesla GPS insistence I stop to charge which is not what I want to do because the Supercharger lot is a pay-to-park and a real time-suck to get into and out of.

 

[SammichLover]

BTW if you're driving into an area where there are no DC or SC that the Tesla database is aware of and the car doesn't think you'll be able to drive out from without charging, it will put up an error message. I forget exactly what it says, but paraphrased "You better turn around or have a Plan B for charging Bub, or you're going home on a flatbed." If you press on it says something like "You're on your own with no way out. GLHF".

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I fully expect that even with a full charge the Tesla GPS routing software will tell me to stop in Birmingham since the full distance will drop the reserve below some preprogrammed GPS battery "safe arrival" level. If so, this means I will have to willfully skip Birmingham despite the Tesla GPS insistence I stop to charge which is not what I want to do because the Supercharger lot is a pay-to-park and a real time-suck to get into and out of.

Maybe. I have no idea. If convenient, before your trip, I would 1) Drive conservatively for about 20-30 miles. (to get the Nav to understand your normal consumption) 2) Overnight, charge to 95%-100% and 3) In the morning, plug in a destination 230 miles away (possibly Greenville if you are in Athens at the time), and see what it says. Do this on a day when you're going to be driving somewhere in the morning, so that you don't leave your battery at 95-100% for too long.

This might be quite optimistic since driving conservatively around your neighborhood is going to be lower consumption than the freeway. But I would think it would tell you you would make it with no Supercharger stop.