Performance not getting 310 miles promised

[Dan_LA]

As I said, this is NOT necessary - but it is useful for establishing your real world range, at some point.

All we really need to know, right now, is: At 80% or 90% charge, how many rated miles does your car indicate?

It's now charging, once it hits 90% I will change to Miles and report here.

 

[JeffK]

It said 300 miles range when it was 100%

Ah, then, in that case, it looks like you have some normal degradation (likely from charging to 100% and draining to well below 10% all the time) but nothing serious.

Your usage is similar to mine lifetime average of a little over 320 Wh/mi, lately with the new firmware and the warmer weather I'm getting 250 - 280 Wh / mile with AC on.

It looks like your battery is perfectly healthy to me. As for what it's reporting that's weird and I'd need more data like if it was parked at any time with AC on or sentry mode, etc.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It said 300 miles range when it was 100% Saturday morning August 10.

Ok. This is fairly typical these days (latest software seems to have "degraded" many batteries - it'll probably come back at some point). Mine dropped from 310 to about 300 miles in late July.

Did you charge to 100% just as a test? Typically I would not do this for every day driving...and also don't draw it down to such a low % except very occasionally or on road trips.

So your full available capacity currently (as measured by the in-car meter) is 300rmi * 230Wh/rmi = 69 "kWh" (as compared to 71.3 "kWh" for a new battery). Again, quotes because these aren't actual kWh.

You got 57 "kWh" out of it. So you're "missing" 12 "kWh".

Since you did not charge since Saturday, if you park your car outside, it's quite conceivable that over 4 days you could use 12 "kWh" (50 rated miles) in vampire drain (it would be a minimum of 1kWh over that period and as much as 3kWh), sitting in Park, using Sentry, using 3rd party apps, opening the door for whatever reason, car keeping the cabin below 105F for ~10 hours (can't remember the exact time) after you leave the car, etc.

1) Do you use TeslaCam?
2) Did you use Sentry since Saturday?
3) Do you use Cabin Overheat Protection?
4) Do you use any apps?

At your lifetime 320Wh/mi efficiency, your current "real-world" range is:

230Wh/rmi / (320 Wh/mi) * 300rmi = 216 miles.

But you actually just did 280Wh/mi (probably a bunch of around-town efficient driving), so that would be:

230Wh/rmi / (280Wh/mi) * 300rmi = 246 miles

But those would only be achievable if you drove continuously, started at 100%, and drove to 0%.

These results are normal and expected for the P3D+.

 

[Dan_LA]

The tech you spoke to was wrong. You need to work your way further up the food chain until you get someone competent.
And for the record, my AC is on ALWAYS and this reduces my range by maybe 5/10 miles on average. I keep mine at 72 f.
I just did a 205 Mile trip in 105F weather with the AC set to 72 in my SR+ without a single issue. Point to point, no charging along the way.

Even if they now are just software locking the battery, they are doing it wrong on your car. Except NO other answer than there is something wrong.

is yours dual motor? are all motors the same?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

is yours dual motor? are all motors the same?

No, his is an SR. It will have nearly the real world range as a P3D+ in some cases! Not on the freeway at speed though.

 

[JeffK]

No, his is an SR. It will have nearly the real world range as a P3D+ in some cases! Not on the freeway at speed though.

Nor at any other speed in my experience except stopped. I guess if you're driving an SR hard it might be equivalent to a Performance rolling along.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Nor at any other speed in my experience except stopped. I guess if you're driving an SR hard it might be equivalent to a Performance rolling along.

I did say nearly. It is closer than one would think.

 

[Dan_LA]

Could you let us know: How many rated miles you have right now, at what %? That's the easiest way to determine your approximate battery health. So just look at the rated miles, switch to %, and report here.

A good battery will have ~279 rmi @ 90% (many cars have recently gone to more like 272 rmi @90%, but it's probably temporary).

The car does not count usage while in Park. Also you have a P3D+, so 220 miles on the freeway is what you should expect for a perfectly functioning vehicle. If you drive that continuously on the freeway, with no elevation gain, no stopping, I expect you'll see something along the lines of 65 "kWh" of consumption.

If you want:
Put car in drive, make a note of the miles & the %, and do a fairly long, continuous drive. Do 150 miles at least, do not stop. Do not put in Park. You really can't stop.

Report:
Wh/mi, miles traveled, the starting rated miles & %, and the final rated miles (and % if you want). We can then figure out your battery health and overall approximate available energy. This isn't really necessary, but it's a little more info than just rated miles & %. Maybe on your next trip to Vegas...

A brand new car appears to have about ~71-72 "kWh" available for a full discharge from 310 to 0. They're meter kWh, so they may not be actual kWh.

The only thing that is relevant is to compare kWh available to other vehicles - the actual "kWh" displayed doesn't really reflect anything important in an absolute sense because it's not calibrated. I haven't seen any reports of any vehicles showing more than about 72 "kWh" for a full discharge, assuming that the net elevation gain was not negative, of course (elevation is like having extra battery capacity, and it's a way you can get the meter to display more than 72 "kWh," since last charge, in rare situations).

Yea at 90% everyday usage was showing from what I recall many times 2754 miles rmi? I don't know what's rmi, does it mean that's shown on the Green Battery? I don't even count that, that would be a dream.

When was the last time you charged? What % did you charge to? Did you spend any time sitting in the car in Park? Did you use Sentry Mode? Do you use Cabin Overheat Protection?

You're missing my point here - the car does not count usage spent in Park - which can be considerable!

Charge your car to 80 or 90% and report the % AND the rated miles.

While energy used in Park over multiple days is relevant for EFFICIENCY, it's not relevant for RANGE. This is because usually (there are rare exceptions) when range matters, you do it all in one shot and there is no time spent in Park.

I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with your battery - but we need more information.

Ah, then, in that case, it looks like you have some normal degradation (likely from charging to 100% and draining to well below 10% all the time) but nothing serious.

Your usage is similar to mine lifetime average of a little over 320 Wh/mi, lately with the new firmware and the warmer weather I'm getting 250 - 280 Wh / mile with AC on.

It looks like your battery is perfectly healthy to me. As for what it's reporting that's weird and I'd need more data like if it was parked at any time with AC on or sentry mode, etc.

Last time I charge was last Friday to Saturday when I reported here it was showing 99% then I went back again and was 100%, accordingly to Tesla Technician it was 99.97%. I did stayed inside in Park about 5min on Saturday and that was it at 71-73 degrees, kids sleeping. No for this CHILL test purpose I have turned off Sentry Mode. Yes I do have Cabin Overheat protection, but again... the technician told me the Kwh displayed DOES account for all of those drains. It should be accounted into the 57kwh I have consumed, unless that's not a fact.

Tesla technician said it does account EVERY usage from the car, even in Park, Sentry Mode when we are away, Teslacam.. I emphasized that 5 times.

So this should include also Park not? I understand that affects efficiency, but also it affects kwh spent, per technician, it's included in the 57kwh displayed.

I do get 250-280 wh/mi as well driving regularly, but do you get 200miles with 95% of battery used, that's what I got with Chill mode, sentry mode off.

I will try to get those extra information and Alan, again, you've been awesome man! I really appreciate it and ALL I hope is that I am wrong. But then why the technician constantly asserted and affirmed ALL TESLA MODEL 3 has the same battery capacity.. over 1 OEM part, range is tweaked on firmware/software.

Ok. This is fairly typical these days (latest software seems to have "degraded" many batteries - it'll probably come back at some point). Mine dropped from 310 to about 300 miles in late July.

Did you charge to 100% just as a test? Typically I would not do this for every day driving...and also don't draw it down to such a low % except very occasionally or on road trips.

So your full available capacity currently (as measured by the in-car meter) is 300rmi * 230Wh/rmi = 69 "kWh" (as compared to 71.3 "kWh" for a new battery). Again, quotes because these aren't actual kWh.

You got 57 "kWh" out of it. So you're "missing" 12 "kWh".

Since you did not charge since Saturday, if you park your car outside, it's quite conceivable that over 4 days you could use 12 "kWh" (50 rated miles) in vampire drain (it would be a minimum of 1kWh over that period and as much as 3kWh), sitting in Park, using Sentry, using 3rd party apps, opening the door for whatever reason, car keeping the cabin below 105F for ~10 hours (can't remember the exact time) after you leave the car, etc.

1) Do you use TeslaCam?
2) Did you use Sentry since Saturday?
3) Do you use Cabin Overheat Protection?
4) Do you use any apps?

At your lifetime 320Wh/mi efficiency, your current "real-world" range is:

230Wh/rmi / (320 Wh/mi) * 300rmi = 216 miles.

But you actually just did 280Wh/mi (probably a bunch of around-town efficient driving), so that would be:

230Wh/rmi / (280Wh/mi) * 300rmi = 246 miles

But those would only be achievable if you drove continuously, started at 100%, and drove to 0%.

These results are normal and expected for the P3D+.

Yea I wasn't even checking the updates and how was affecting or not.. as I rarely charge 100%. Most of times I charge 90% showing 274 miles... this CHILL test I did was the 1st time ever I was using % on battery as someone told me to here.

I did charge 100% last Friday to Saturday morning, I mean, when I saw was 99%, came here to report and by the time I went back to check again, 100% finally showed up... detail, the night before I had 90% charged when I plugged in to charge 10% overnight.

Yes I know, I did for tests reason, I hate when is even 20% yellow. I had BMW i3 70 miles electric range! haha

Where did you get the 230 Wh/rmi? What does this mean?

Vampire drain was told that's included on the 57 kwh rate displayed... again, I doubt it but let's go with this line... I didn't use none 3rd party Apps, I just have Tesla App, Sentry Mode always off.... hum.. ok not true... I turned on manually on Sunday as I parked in a crowded Mall, it showed 58 events when I was back....

As for keeping the cabin below... that's the only thing I can imagine that drains.. specially on this summer... but my car is always parked inside my garage... Saturday was parked outside my friends house in La Canada, was hot... so give or take... 5 hrs parked outside...

Sunday was at the Mall... interior parked, not outside, I remember checking car temperature at 85... but then 58 Sentry Mode Events...

Then Monday and Today back to school, lots of local driving, but again, paying a lot of attention to not speed and trying to "coast" ...

1) Teslacam - Yes I do let it on.
2) Auto Sentry has been turned off for this CHILL test period... only Sunday I turned on manually and recorded 58 events.
3) Yes Cabin always ON since day 1.
4) No I don't trust any 3rd party Apps besides Tesla.

Again, what's with the 230 wh/rmi?.. if that's true then 216 miles is EXACTLY what I am getting now in real world... on CHILL mode though.

Yes since last charge it is 280 wh/mi as you saw pictures... around town was only Yesterday and Today. Saturday/Sunday were all freeways... about 165 miles all freeway.

So from what you are saying my battery is fine, but I "lost" 30 miles of real world to vampire drain? 246-216...?

Then why would some if not majority of folks here reporting 275 miles actual range in average? While apparently me and you are getting 216 miles driving + 30 miles vampire drain?

I could turn off cabin heat protection, sentry mode, and Teslacam and redo this test on the 150 miles test you have recommended also...

Really appreciate your input here Alan, should buy you a beer when I stop down in SD.

 

[Dan_LA]

Hi Alan,

As now charge went from 5% to 26%... 21% and display showing 15kw added... 15 / 0.21 = 71.43 kwh ... so would you say that's another clue that car battery is healthy, is that what you meant before?

Nonetheless, need to wait once it reach 90%, or should I slide 100%?

 

[r1200gs4ok]

Mmmm.....I got my M3 in Mid Jun 2019.....FSD, AWD, LR......Currently have 3-75 miles......I have charged each time I need it and registered 279 miles at 90%....Last week, I ran it down to 35 miles and charged to 100% for the first time...It registered 307 miles...not 310....but I think I am ok and will not worry about missing the mark by 3 miles......thoughts???

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

technician told me the Kwh displayed DOES account for all of those drains. It should be accounted into the 57kwh I have consumed, unless that's not a fact.

Not a fact. Fake news.

Tesla technician said it does account EVERY usage from the car, even in Park, Sentry Mode when we are away, Teslacam.. I emphasized that 5 times.

Technician is wrong.

per technician, it's included in the 57kwh displayed.

Technician is wrong.

Vampire drain was told that's included on the 57 kwh rate displayed... again, I doubt it but let's go with this line

It’s not included.

Saturday was parked outside my friends house in La Canada, was hot... so give or take... 5 hrs parked outside...

Sunday was at the Mall... interior parked, not outside, I remember checking car temperature at 85... but then 58 Sentry Mode Events...

That will cost some miles. Hard to know how many exactly.

Again, what's with the 230 wh/rmi?.. if that's true then 216 miles is EXACTLY what I am getting now in real world... on CHILL mode though.

Rmi is “rated miles” - what shows up next to the battery. It’s just an indicator of available energy. For each 230Wh you use on the trip meter, 1 rated mile will tick off that display.

So from what you are saying my battery is fine, but I "lost" 30 miles of real world to vampire drain? 246-216...?

Something close to that. I gave the numbers above.

Then why would some if not majority of folks here reporting 275 miles actual range in average?

They either have a different vehicle, are never freeway driving and have no hills and thus getting excellent efficiency, or they are lying. 275 miles is fairly easily achieved in the LR RWD.

I could turn off cabin heat protection, sentry mode, and Teslacam and redo this test on the 150 miles test you have recommended also...

I would do this for more of an everyday test, not the one single drive. Turn off all these things, then go a few days. Make sure to not leave climate on, etc. It isn’t worth it if your car gets bashed and you don’t record it though. You have to make the call on when to use these features. There is generally no reason to worry about them - just charge every night and their consumption will rarely matter.

Really appreciate your input here Alan, should buy you a beer when I stop down in SD.

Ha. Let’s see if we can make this make sense first at least....

15kw added... 15 / 0.21 = 71.43 kwh ... so would you say that's another clue that car battery is healthy, is that what you meant before?

Yes.

Nonetheless, need to wait once it reach 90%

Just charge to 90% and report the miles. No need for 100%.

So far, your car seems totally normal other than missing a couple % battery capacity at full charge. Which may just be a software issue.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Also, turn back on Sport mode! It’s not your problem. Unless it means you use the brakes more, it’s not going to make much difference. Obviously full on launches are not the most efficient, but in the big scheme of things it won’t matter much as long as it does not result in more brake use.

Use your foot to drive chill. You have the Performance for a reason. Leave it in Sport. Unless you like Chill.

 

[Dan_LA]

Also, turn back on Sport mode! It’s not your problem. Unless it means you use the brakes more, it’s not going to make much difference. Obviously full on launches are not the most efficient, but in the big scheme of things it won’t matter much as long as it does not result in more brake use.

Use your foot to drive chill. You have the Performance for a reason. Leave it in Sport. Unless you like Chill.

HA u just guessed my next question. If i like Chill i would get a 911 turbo, seriously. Yea I will get probably 180 on sport mode, but on my long trip to Monterey, CA I couldn’t tell difference on range. Like you said, we do arrive faster. Thanks!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Yea I will get probably 180 on sport mode

Only if you drive differently...

For purposes of establishing pack capacity it doesn’t matter, anyway.

Hopefully you’re back to 274 miles or so this morning?

Anyway, seems like your car is fine. You can try the longer term test again without using any of the vampire features if you want - but really up to you - not really needed. Pretty sure you could get at least a 64-65kWh result over 3-4 days, if you eliminate some of these other drains. Easier to just wait for a road trip.

 

[Dan_LA]

Only if you drive differently...

For purposes of establishing pack capacity it doesn’t matter, anyway.

Hopefully you’re back to 274 miles or so this morning?

Anyway, seems like your car is fine. You can try the longer term test again without using any of the vampire features if you want - but really up to you - not really needed. Pretty sure you could get at least a 64-65kWh result over 3-4 days, if you eliminate some of these other drains. Easier to just wait for a road trip.

Was just checking right now... somehow it charged to 93% even I had limited at 90%.

It charged 65 kwh... which means 8 kwh vampire drain then? Man you should teach those technicians... anyways. The whole confusion was this vampire drain, I asked like 5 times... and also asked him to confirm 5 times that ALL Model 3 manufactured so far has the same battery capacity... when the WHOLE freakin Internet says otherwise... he the would say, I'm John (refused to say his last name) employee of Tesla and I am telling you that ALL Model 3 has the same battery... geez. When their own OEM catalog says otherwise.. He affirmed, it's all under 1 OEM battery part #...

Also it displayed 279 miles at 93%.. so you were spot on... most likely 274 miles or even less.

Anyway, confusion made. Case solved thanks to you man! Back to Sport mode and to hard work mode, most likely Elon is freakin tweaking all Performance models, as most likely everybody will stretch out for the Dream Roadster in 2021.

What scratch my head is this, I want to see whoever is claiming 275 miles DRIVEN on a P3D+ in a single charge 100%... or even 250 miles in 90%... DRIVEN. Unless you shut down display, Teslcam, Sentry, AC, Cabin heater etc.. and drive straight? That's so fu... up.

Now ok... any way to increase this range? Rear spoiler installed... wondering if I should lower car and add a fron spoiler from RPMTEsla.. 6-7% gain here and there it does help for sure.

And also will change this summer tires next round.

Have a great day and let me know when we can beer this out haha.

 

[N54TT]

Was just checking right now... somehow it charged to 93% even I had limited at 90%.

It charged 65 kwh... which means 8 kwh vampire drain then? Man you should teach those technicians... anyways. The whole confusion was this vampire drain, I asked like 5 times... and also asked him to confirm 5 times that ALL Model 3 manufactured so far has the same battery capacity... when the WHOLE freakin Internet says otherwise... he the would say, I'm John (refused to say his last name) employee of Tesla and I am telling you that ALL Model 3 has the same battery... geez. When their own OEM catalog says otherwise.. He affirmed, it's all under 1 OEM battery part #...

Also it displayed 279 miles at 93%.. so you were spot on... most likely 274 miles or even less.

Anyway, confusion made. Case solved thanks to you man! Back to Sport mode and to hard work mode, most likely Elon is freakin tweaking all Performance models, as most likely everybody will stretch out for the Dream Roadster in 2021.

What scratch my head is this, I want to see whoever is claiming 275 miles DRIVEN on a P3D+ in a single charge 100%... or even 250 miles in 90%... DRIVEN. Unless you shut down display, Teslcam, Sentry, AC, Cabin heater etc.. and drive straight? That's so fu... up.

Now ok... any way to increase this range? Rear spoiler installed... wondering if I should lower car and add a fron spoiler from RPMTEsla.. 6-7% gain here and there it does help for sure.

And also will change this summer tires next round.

Have a great day and let me know when we can beer this out haha.

View attachment 441663 View attachment 441664

279 @93% equals about 300@100%. That’s about 3.25% battery degradation...all perfectly within realm of reason. You have no issues with wrong battery or defective battery. If you want the best range from a performance with 20’s. Change out to non sport brake and oem 18”s which essentially makes it a regular long range awd...and you’ll have a lot better chance of getting closer to the rated 310. Otherwise put that bad boy in sport mode and let it rip.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It charged 65 kwh... which means 8 kwh vampire drain then?

That +65kWh is a little tricky as it doesn't align with the rated miles constant (if it did you would have added 283 miles, but you likely only added 279rmi (93%) - 15 rmi (5%) = 264rmi). I don't think it's the constant that is wrong - it may just be the way the car displays this number. It's possible it is displaying something closer to the actual number of kWh added to the battery (rather than the meter "kWh"). (264rmi* 250Wh (true) /rmi = 66kWh).

But as far as your losses (I won't call it all vampire because it includes Sentry, cabin overheat, etc - which is feature drain):

Previously you charged to 100% (300 miles in your case). And went down to 5%, 15 miles. 285 rmi * 230Wh/rmi = 65.5kWh. Your meter displayed 57kWh or 58kWh or so. So ~8kWh of vampire/feature loss.

279 @93% equals about 300@100%.

@N54TT is correct, and this means your battery is fine. I think it's likely your range will bounce back a few miles with a future update but it does not matter.

Now ok... any way to increase this range?

Honestly, not sure it is necessary. You only need to be able to make it between Superchargers (which you can do no problem). It helps a little to have better efficiency, but not much, in terms of travel time.

Rolling Resistance:
1) Run stock wheels & MXM4s in front with aeros with 4-5mm spacers (I do not recommend this; clearance is less than 1mm to the caliper). And run aftermarket 18" wheels with Tesla MXM4s in the rear. Again, I do not recommend this. Stock 18" wheels do NOT fit in the rear at all.

2) If you don't want to do the Frankenstein method above - just get some 18" aftermarket wheels and run the MXM4s. A lot of aftermarket wheels are not as aerodynamic as the Tesla 20"/19" wheels though, so they won't be as good as you might expect at freeway speeds.

The wheel changes make much less difference for freeway runs when it really matters though. Because if you're driving 80mph your tire rolling losses are a very small part of your overall loss. The exception to this are the aero covers in the front, mentioned above. That's the motivation for the Frankenstein approach.

Aero:

1) You could try the various aero mods - there are claims they help. I have no idea. You're only likely to notice on long freeway runs.

2) Drive a little slower. However, as mentioned earlier, this likely will not save you time on longer road trips. Just drive fast and hit Superchargers.


To be clear: to actually get the 310 (300 for you now) miles of range, you have to do 230Wh/mi, displayed in the car. That is completely impossible even with all the changes above, if you're driving 80mph.

Mostly, don't worry about it. Enjoy the car. It will get you a good solid 200 miles between stops at 80mph+ freeway speeds, which is plenty for hopping between Superchargers. This is normal for P3D+ owners, and in fact all AWD owners. There's no way to avoid it.

 

[mmiketa]

To be clear: to actually get the 310 (300 for you now) miles of range, you have to do 230Wh/mi, displayed in the car. That is completely impossible even with all the changes above, if you're driving 80mph.

So what's the rough range if we get between 280-310 Wh/mi?

 

[MP3Mike]

So what's the rough range if we get between 280-310 Wh/mi?

254-230.

 

[mmiketa]

254-230.

That's not bad. Honestly, I am worried about it now because I just got the car but I did the same thing with my BRZ. After a week or two I remembered I bought the car for the "smiles per gallon" and not the miles and I am sure it'll happen here too.