Performance or LR Dual Motor for commute?

[Nocturnal]

I use my seat heaters. It's not magic. It's included in the price.

Now I know you are full of it. Seat heaters aren't sufficient for driving in very cold weather unless you want the interior of your car to be 40 degrees.

This is something of an issue, that optimal BEV cabin environment management is different than ICE. Primarily because of all the "free air heat", which is waste heat that gets tosses otherwise anyway. It isn't base operating knowledge of effectively everyone from decades of experience.

It's false. Seat heaters are a supplement to help reduce cabin temp a little, not a replacement for cabin heat.

 

[SammichLover]

Barf. It is a soulless appliance. Until they made the recent changes to it, it had all of the outward aesthetics of a dry eraseboard eraser.....

While this is true, dry-eraser boards erasers are still quite functional. The Camry is indeed a functional dry eraser and helluva durable via some top notch work (well I've had mechanics complain durability is sliding in recent years due to material choices, from $ pressure but I've not had new enough to know about that one way or the other). But if you're talking about it in terms of "quiet" I'm kinda baffled about a Camry as some sort of bar to measure up to.

<edit> I will say, after switching back and forth between the Model 3 and the Camry before we had managed to find a buyer for the Camry, the Camry started feeling like I was riding the family milk cow, as it bobbed and wove and careened down the road. Worse in corners of course. And of course deaf to calls of "giddy up". Ug.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Now I know you are full of it. Seat heaters aren't sufficient for driving in very cold weather unless you want the interior of your car to be 40 degrees.

Never said that, but I also don't drive for hundreds of miles at a time with my heat set to HIGH, and then complain about the range hit. I've learned to achieve a balance. I'm sorry you haven't, but that doesn't invalidate my experience with a New England winter.

 

[SammichLover]

Now I know you are full of it. Seat heaters aren't sufficient for driving in very cold weather unless you want the interior of your car to be 40 degrees.

The key is that with your butt getting heated air temp doesn't much matter, as long as you're keeping the windows clear [primarily with fresh air from outside].

<edit> This is why feel like Tesla missed the mark not having a heated steering wheel on the Model 3. That was the pinch-point for me in cold weather, needing gloves and issues with air temp. But I don't know what the bean counters had to say about that for costs? That was probably what killed it. :/

 

[Nocturnal]

Never said that, but I also don't drive for hundreds of miles at a time with my heat set to HIGH, and then complain about the range hit. I've learned to achieve a balance. I'm sorry you haven't, but that doesn't invalidate my experience with a New England winter.

Don't back peddle now. You said what you said, and you are pretending that range doesn't take a hit in the winter. It does, and it can be a big one. I'm sorry you are oblivious to reality.

The key is that with your butt getting heated air temp doesn't much matter, as long as you're keeping the windows clear [primarily with fresh air from outside].

That doesn't help when your nose and hands go numb.
On long trips in super cold weather I don't wear a heavy winter coat, but warm clothes, seat heater, and a blanket. Setting the heat at 68 is a pretty reasonable approach while being in a car for 8 hours. Much colder than that and you really suffer.

I actually don't mind really. My EV's benefits are far greater than this minor negative, but I also don't think we should trick people.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Don't back peddle now. You said what you said, and you are pretending that range doesn't take a hit in the winter. It does, and it can be a big one. I'm sorry you are oblivious to reality.

since you know what I said, show me where I said it. you INFERRED something I didn't say, then used it as the foundation for your argument.

are you a politician?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Don't back peddle now. You said what you said, and you are pretending that range doesn't take a hit in the winter. It does, and it can be a big one. I'm sorry you are oblivious to reality.


That doesn't help when your nose and hands go numb.
On long trips in super cold weather I don't wear a heavy winter coat, but warm clothes, seat heater, and a blanket. Setting the heat at 68 is a pretty reasonable approach while being in a car for 8 hours. Much colder than that and you really suffer.

I actually don't mind really. My EV's benefits are far greater than this minor negative, but I also don't think we should trick people.

I have the 18's with Aeros on during the winter, as well. So...I mean, you can tell me what my efficiency is, and how I achieve it, but we have 2 similar, but different experiences with our cars.

and on the one long trip I do each year, it didn't get down to -10F. Had it been THAT cold, your scenario may have been a little more accurate.

 

[Nocturnal]

I have the 18's with Aeros on during the winter, as well. So...I mean, you can tell me what my efficiency is, and how I achieve it, but we have 2 similar, but different experiences with our cars.

and on the one long trip I do each year, it didn't get down to -10F. Had it been THAT cold, your scenario may have been a little more accurate.

Maybe the P3D get's nailed extra hard in the cold, I don't know. Maybe 15 degrees is a big difference than 20? I was a bit surprised on my first trip TBH.

 

[SammichLover]

That doesn't help when your nose and hands go numb.

See my edit about the hands. The nose I'm entirely lost on if you're talking about above freezing temps.

On long trips in super cold weather I don't wear a heavy winter coat, but warm clothes, seat heater, and a blanket. Setting the heat at 68 is a pretty reasonable approach while being in a car for 8 hours.

68F? Goodness sakes man, I walk around the house as naked as the kids can tolerate in 70F. And I live in SE Texas.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Maybe the P3D get's nailed extra hard in the cold, I don't know. Maybe 15 degrees is a big difference than 20? I was a bit surprised on my first trip TBH.

The biggest (and only, really) difference between my config and yours is the wheels. the 20s are a huge hit. If we're driving side by side in the same conditions, your consumption will be up to 12% higher than mine thanks to those wheels. Add to that liberal use of the heat.....and I might not be that far off.


Tesla Range Table - Teslike.com

 

[afadeev]

They also have the Pilot Sport 4S for the 18" wheel size as well. In my case I split the difference and got the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ which is a High Performance All Season tire (as opposed to the Pilot Sport 4S which is a summer performance tire).

Not from the factory - 18s come with Michelin all-seasons.
So do 19, though though of Conti variety.
The Tesla Model 3 Wheel and Tire Guide

A/S 3' are a bit gripper than either of the stock all-season tires Tesla installs on 18 or 19 wheels, but still appreciably less sure footed than Pilot Sport 4S's.

How much of a difference between the long range 19" stock wheels vs performance 20" wheels? In terms of ride comfort, performance, bent wheel issues.

Ride comfort is an EXTREMELY subjective concept.
What some find luxuries will be deemed brutal by others. Therefore, the only way to form an opinion is to back-to-back test drive the two configurations and see for yourself.

235/35-20" tires, by definition, should have shorter and stiffer sidewall than 235/40-19" tires.
In real world, tirewall stiffness varies between tire brands and models within a brand family, and overall ride quality is heavily impacted by the inflation pressures. For example, the most # of tires I ever bubbled and rims I bent were on stupid-stiff RFT tires on my ex-bimmers.

Re: Winter tires, the only ones I see that will fit on the 20" wheels are these $455 Pirellis... https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=Winter+Sottozero+Serie+II&partnum=335WR0270SZ2XL&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Tesla&autoYear=2019&autoModel=Model 3 Performance&autoModClar= You're better off buying new wheels AND tires if you can find something to fit over the bigger calipers.

Unless storage is an issue (if you live in an apartment), you are ALWAYS better off buying a dedicated set of winter wheels and tires. That way you can swap wheels on/off in ~45 minutes with zero damage, for free.
Take the car into a tire shops 2x/year to dismount+mount+balance new tires on one set of wheels will cost you hours, $200-300 at a time, and will inevitably scratch the wheels.

A second set of winter wheels (18"-ers !), will pay for themselves by pairing with the cheaper 18" winter tires!

a

 

[Nocturnal]

See my edit about the hands. The nose I'm entirely lost on if you're talking about above freezing temps.



68F? Goodness sakes man, I walk around the house as naked as the kids can tolerate in 70F. And I live in SE Texas.

Yeah me too, I keep my heat at 67 during the day and let it go to 64 overnight but it's not the same in the car. When you are doing 75 the center of the car may be 68, but your arm near the window is getting exposed to much cooler temps. To be clear, setting it at 68 is comfortable. Setting it at 65 and you can start to feel yourself get chilly.

 

[SammichLover]

but your arm near the window is getting exposed to much cooler temps.

Long sleeves, no coat, and saw no issues with the Model 3. Just don't rest your arm on the top of the door against the window.

Setting it at 65 and you can start to feel yourself get chilly.

I don't use the resistive heater at all until the outside drops somewhere below 32F, after that only intermittently when I'm having any sort of being of windshield issues (important, keep the inside of the glass clean!). Manual HVAC, AC off, temp to LO, vent to windshield only, draw outside air, fan at 1 or 2 as needed to keep the windshield clear.

Humans are like ICE in that they generate a lot of "waste heat". Body heat, with the seat warmers for an initial kick, is a wonderful thing. Especially if you're there with more than one person this works well. Above 2 people you have to up the fan a bit to compensate in displacing the moisture with outside air.

Oh, and don't sit in the car with no venting during charging. You'll build up moisture and that will fubar the system for 1/2 hour, give or take, as you dry out the vehicle. Hard earned, firsthand knowledge there. Doh.

 

[Dre78]

The link you provide shows the power drop-off as SoC drops off for an AWD.

It makes no claim at all that the P is any different or better though (and I can't see how it could be- given the battery and motors are identical, and the P requires more battery draw to go quicker than the AWD)

Yeah, I thought I read elsewhere that SoC doesn't affect P in Track Mode, but I could be mistaken.

Here's Tesla's official post: How Track Mode Works

 

[Knightshade]

Yeah, I thought I read elsewhere that SoC doesn't affect P in Track Mode, but I could be mistaken.

Here's Tesla's official post: How Track Mode Works

Yeah track mode doesn't fix SoC power loss.... all track mode does raw power-wise is overclock the cooling system so overheating doesn't sap power sooner... this is relevant if doing multiple laps around a race track at high speed....but not so much for street driving... (unless you're Perry who IIRC averages like 1200 wh/mi in street driving.... just glad I don't live on his street!)

 

[DDotJ]

Not from the factory - 18s come with Michelin all-seasons.
So do 19, though though of Conti variety.
The Tesla Model 3 Wheel and Tire Guide

A/S 3' are a bit gripper than either of the stock all-season tires Tesla installs on 18 or 19 wheels, but still appreciably less sure footed than Pilot Sport 4S's.
a

Oh, I meant that the 20"s come with the high performance summer tire (the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S). You're correct that the 18" come with All Season MXM4s from the factory. I was mentioning that if OP wanted Max Performance summer tires on 18" wheels, they were available in the 18" size (minus the Tesla TO Acoustic foam).

I split the difference, as in when I downgraded from the 20" Max Performance Summer Tires, I opted for getting High Performance All Seasons rather than the MXM4s that normally come with the 18"s which are Grand Touring All Seasons (which are less "sporty" and have better efficiency and ride comfort). The move to All Season Tires from the Summer Performance tires gave me an efficiency boost along with slight improvements in ride comfort. Also it allowed me to take my car into the snow when I go up to Big Bear a handful of times a year.

 

[Stanwood Steve]

Re: Winter tires, the only ones I see that will fit on the 20" wheels are these $455 Pirellis... https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=Winter+Sottozero+Serie+II&partnum=335WR0270SZ2XL&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Tesla&autoYear=2019&autoModel=Model 3 Performance&autoModClar= You're better off buying new wheels AND tires if you can find something to fit over the bigger calipers.

I purchased the 20" wheels from EV Wheels and put the 20" Michelin Alpin tires on them (you can see in the photo we got some snow this past year). They performed well, and I purchased the tires through Tire Rack. They look nice on the car, I think, and gave the car incredible traction. I was going up roads that most cars could not.

 

[devilmountain]

Honestly, I prefer road trips in my Tesla too. I have other ICE cars but end up taking the Tesla.

• Autopilot is awesome for long road trips. I would take my Tesla for this reason alone. I arrive much less tired it reduces stress (especially in heavy traffic)
• I stop every 2.5-3 hours anyway to go to the bathroom and eat. It allows for a more relaxing road trip experience. I timed an ICE road trip and my Tesla road trip from Orange County to SF and found the ICE was only about 30 minutes faster.
• With free (or even paid) Supercharging, it's much cheaper

I do understand that some people like to do cannonball run-style road trips where you minimize time and do gas-and-go stops. Personally I don't like that but if you are constantly going very long distances and are in a time crunch, I can see why some people take ICE vehicles on road trips.

I am this person, no stops if possible or one real quick stop if going to Orange County. I however changed my tune and prefer taking my Model 3 on long trips. We recently bought a second Model 3 to replace our SUV and there are no complaints. We only have one ICE car now, which is a classic muscle car and that isn't going on a long road trip.

 

[batthis]

I think for me, who is going through the same decisioning as OP, is to purchase the LR with the 19" wheels for a softer ride. The car is still will be faster than anything I've ever owned. I think I would also prefer the extra range. I don't really want to have to spend 10k to remove then tires for smaller ones. Stinks that the custom ordering options aren't a bit more granular.

That's what I'm about to do... 3D + 19s for a tad of performance and aesthetics and save the money for a set of 18" winters and rims + front end wrap + ceramic coat + "invest in FSD kickstarter" even though I don't think it will be available in Canada anytime soon.

I went to Tesla and took the P3D out for a spin yesterday to make sure I don't regret it. It was $@#%'n awesome! And I giggled like every other person in their first P3D 0-60 ride. But as someone else mentioned before, I literally had a headache for the rest of the day from the force. I'm in my 40's, and felt like Phil in that Modern Family episode where he couldn't handle rollercoasters anymore. In fact last time I went on a rollercoaster I felt a similar headache. So as much as it was fun, not something I'll do often enough to make it worth the extra cash. None of my friends or family have supercars, so I'll still impress and evangelize EV with a 0-60 in 4.5 sec. But if I was in my 20s or 30s and had the extra cash (oxymoron for most) I wouldn't hesitate!

 

[DOC52]

Performance only for the brakes lol